EgyptAir flight from Paris to Cairo has vanished from Radar

a reply to: Zaphod58

Thank-you Zaphod58 for taking the time to detail what the various countries are/will do to assist in the recovery operation. After posting this message, I'm going to find a website that explains what's taking so long. I could understand if this was 1968. But with today's technologies, the search crews shouldn't be having such a hard time locating the wreckage you would think.

a reply to: carewemust

The area it went down in is very mountainous and deep. There are a lot of valleys and ridges that the wreckage is going to be piled up in. The only portion of the wreckage that transmits a signal at this point are the pingers on the two recorders. So they're going to have to sonar map the entire region and look for possible pieces of wreckage, then send ROVs down to examine them until they find the main wreckage field. Then it's a matter of sending down divers in hard suits, and submersibles capable of picking up important pieces for them to examine.

originally posted by: JimTSpock
The turns and loss of altitude sounds like an out of control dive or death spiral. No one has claimed responsibility so far for a terrorist attack so could be a bad fire. At this stage fire or bomb sounds most likely. Although if there was a fire you'd think the pilots would radio smoke or fire and declare an emergency.

I mentioned way back in the front of this thread that the lack of communication made me think that Pilot suicide was the cause. Now, some credence is being given to that possibility.

Opinion: theconservativetreehouse.com...

a reply to: carewemust

Pilot suicide wouldn't have caused ACARS to send those messages though.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: carewemust

Pilot suicide wouldn't have caused ACARS to send those messages though.

Well then.. no wonder the media is grasping at straws by entertaining so many far out theories. I suppose all of us should just focus on other things until the "black boxes", or other tangible evidence is found.

The last time a plane was lost at sea, in water that was several thousand feet deep, how long was it before a cause was determined, based on evidence recovered from the ocean floor?

a reply to: carewemust

The final report in any crash takes up to two or three years to release. AirAsia took 8 days to find the wreckage, and that was only in a couple hundred feet of water. Air France 447 took two years to find the wreckage underwater and recover the recorders. They left 74 bodies unrecovered.

Hmmm ... doesn't seem to be much in the way of meaningful news on this lately. The last thing I saw was that mention of the Egyptian Oil Ministry (one source here of many) sending some submersible drone-type thing - which doesn't seem (to me) like it would be immediately helpful.

I saw something on TV yesterday about the French sending a ship that would help locate the pingers.

I am wonder why we did just FLY the proper pinger-location equipment to a nearby port and put it on a ship that could get there sooner? I believe that is one of the things that was done with the MH370 search?

a reply to: EnhancedInterrogator

It could be lack of ships capable of interfacing with the submersibles. In the MH370 search they could fly it to Australia and put it on a ship there that could interface with it. That's less likely to be an option here.

a reply to: Zaphod58
Could be I suppose.
I was thinking less about those more autonomous drones they sent later, and more about the towed-pinger-locator things - which seemed like they had their own support package that shipped with them.

a reply to: EnhancedInterrogator

They do, but they still need room on the ships to put the control areas, and have the cranes to lift and lower them. They're largely autonomous, but they still have some required infrastructure they need on the ships launching them.

After the super frustrating search for the Malaysian airliner, were there any changes made to the flight/data boxes' transmitters to make them more powerful, and/or to last longer? I wonder how powerful they'd have to be in order for one of the newer spy satellites to locate the boxes exact location, if they're less than 10,000 feet down?

a reply to: carewemust

That's being worked on, but it's going to take time to implement. Within the next few years they're going to a 90 day locator beacon. They can't make them powerful enough to be detected by a satellite, but they'll last much longer than the current locators do, giving them more time to find them.

originally posted by: WeSbO

originally posted by: EnhancedInterrogator
a reply to: WeSbO

Although, I would think that terrorists would want the opposite - not a mystery, but an obvious and immediately horrific event.

I agree and disagree, i'm on the fence with that, as creating doubt can be also effective in scaring someone, but then again even a confirmed terrorist attack creates doubt in the fact that you know it's going to happen but you don't know when nor where. I guess that would depend on the thought process of the person/people carrying out a terrorist attack.

I believe that this isn't a terrorist attack in the sense to scare us, the normal population. These "mystery" attacks seem more like warnings by the powers in control of the west against Egypt in particular. Perhaps there was someone on that flight that they wanted to take out.

There are still some countries not under total control who seem to have factions still fighting against them such as Syria, Yemen, Japan, Malaysia, Ecuador and Brazil.

originally posted by: EnhancedInterrogator
I will note one disturbing similarity between this event and MH370 ... both events start during or right after hand-off between two different air-traffic-control authorities. For MH370 it was Malaysia handing off and telling the flight to contact Vietnam. For MS804, it was the Greeks contacting the flight to give them the hand-off for the Egyptians.

This is good thinking. Attacks are always carried out in such a way to add an element of confusion. Here, it involves two different authorities and two different languages. Remember other attacks (such as 7/7) that occurred during a terrorist "drill" to confuse the police/security forces.

originally posted by: Miracula2
The US govt seems to think this is a bomb. Which given the planes disappearance from radar at 37000 feet makes sense.

What doesn't make sense to me is why terrorist would bomb a plane with many Muslims on it and why they waited to put a bomb on it in Paris heading to an predominantly Muslim nation.

I don't think this was carried out by "Muslim terrorists" in the conventional, media contrived sense. I think it was done by those in power who deliberately created the "terrorist" problem in the first place to achieve their own agenda.

If you have two enemies, what better than to create a war between those two? They are distracted from fighting you and weakened by each other until the time you step in and take over control. It's a clever but cowardly strategy that's being used right now.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk

originally posted by: WeSbO

originally posted by: redshoes
IMO the plane is in the sea. It was a terrorist act. The authorities know it, but they don't want to call it yet publicly while they are racing to catch up with whoever was behind this.

That makes no sense to me, if that was the case they wouldn't have started talking about terrorist attacks, or confirming a crash right from the beginning, they would have just said "still missing, might have crashed here" well just following standard procedure.

Well, the "they" you refer to is the media, and the media quoting various shadowy or non-existent "unnamed sources".

Sadly, you've made a huge leap of faith with your assertion, and this leap of faith is that the media itself is not complicit with the fear-mongering which is the very heart and soul of terrorism. On the contrary, they very much are; terrorists rely on the media to spread conjecture, fear and lies far and wide in the absence of facts. The media is hand and glove with the terrorists. Finding a truly objective news source is nearly impossible; they all have an agenda.

Here's an easy way to validate this notion...imagine for just a moment how effective terrorism would be without the media(?). Terrorism would be almost completely ineffective as a global threat were it not for the media, and would be isolated to a local/regional threat at best.

Don't think for even one millisecond the media has even the remotest interest in bringing you the facts! They are interested in one thing, and one thing only...money. They will stop at nothing to get it; there is no bar too low. And the shocking reality is, terrorism sells advertising. Terrorism sells more than advertising though, it also sells political spin/debate, which in turn sells more newspapers (websites, etc.) which sell advertising.

I love this post.

I see people on here quoting from the BBC and the like, believing media stories without question and I wonder why they are on a site like this. We can't change anything until the majority of people understand that there is a horrendous conspiracy going on that started before we were born. Our entire lives have been influenced by lies and propaganda in the media, on tv shows and even our school books. I first understood what was going on as a teacher, using various school books that are updated every year (called "new editions") just to bring in new propaganda.

They knew we would start finding out about it when the Internet started and English became the common language: making it a lot easier for people to communicate and pool knowledge - that is why they flooded us with wacky, stupid, fake "conspiracies" back in the 1960s to make "conspiracy theorist" the dirty term it is today. Seeing the lies in the media is the first step to seeing the lies elsewhere.

Hey, I heard on the radio yesterday here in Swe that they had located the black boxes.
Not the rest of the wreckage though, but the black boxes had been found. Yes, they said plural, which struck me a little odd.

So my question is, did they found them, and if so, is the data avaliable somewhere? I dont have time to scour the thread to find it atm so thought it would be quicker to just ask.
thanks.

a reply to: alienDNA

As of yesterday Egyptian officials have denied the report that either the CVR / FDR had been found.

I believe a lot of these erroneous reports are coming about due to misinterpretation and language translation errors.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

What I saw was CBS News reported that Egyptian media including state media said the signals had been picked up from the recorders so they knew the general area where they are. The recorders had not been retrieved yet. Sources from U.S. Intelligence later confirmed this to CBS. After that, Egyptian sources denied the report.

a reply to: carewemust

Water presents a huge scientific barrier for any type of radio communications. Militaries around the globe have spent decades and trillions of dollars in attempts to overcome this barrier in order to communicate with ballistic missile submarines. Some 'workable' solutions have been found, but the equipment involved is positively mammoth would never be applicable for use on something as small as a 'black box'.

In my mind we must develop a system which prevents the black boxes from being submerged in the first place. With the modern technology in place today this would seem simple enough to accomplish.