Rape Culture

originally posted by: InTheLight
If 99% of men don't rape, then who is raping the 1 in 5 women

So....

So women say it happens on a massive scale
But women won't report it on even a small scale, more like miniscule
So nobody can do jack 'cause they keep all but the crying a secret
And women say that's someone else's fault.

I know the standard response-of-hysteria is "stop blaming the victim for rape!" but when do women start taking responsibility for being adults, or being psychologically well enough to interact with society?

If a group of girls from the local jr. high school told me that they had been attacked by wild dogs near some fields when walking home, and then insisted, daily, that they were attacked at least one day every 5 day school week, but then refused to tell anybody what route they walk home, or what the dogs looked like attacking them, and then insisted that all dogs everywhere should just be considered deadly dangerous, eventually I'd start thinking they had some kind of problem that was more about them than the dogs, even if they WERE being attacked that often.

Because at some point it becomes their responsibility to at least narrow down culprits and not blame an entire category of others for what only a few are doing. At this point if it looks like "everyone must be doing it" that's apparently because women in refusing to report it, then in blending so much non-rape BS in with 'rape' as a stat, have managed to blur-diffuse the entire topic into a red haze of hysteria rather than any kind of reasonable groundwork we could use for addressing a problem.

that would take it up near 3-4 out of 5 women are raped?

If we cannot keep 70% of the population from violent crime there is a much larger thing going on and immediately teaching everybody every form of risk-avoidance, self-protection, and reporting-detail possible is critical. Oh wait, the modern feminists won't let us do that. They don't really want to protect women they just want all men to be criminals.

Why would so many rape victims not consider their experience to be rape? ... Some do not want to view the perpetrator – often an intimate partner – as a rapist.

Maybe he's not. Maybe men often have sex the woman isn't ready for or cool with for a lot of reasons but he is definitely not a guy who'd engineer the event or leap out from a parking lot. The polarization on rape creates a situation where a lot of women find the results on men if reported so heinous that unless he really IS a heinous criminal she wouldn't report it.

Of course Victim Brigades consider all men heinous criminals by default so wouldn't understand.

Others are influenced by rape myths that define rape narrowly

You mean by defining rape as RAPE, like, some event where one person's body enters another usually.

How beautiful their words "rewrite reality" and just slide so seamlessly in these little refs that in fact are the key to the drastic reclassification of victims, criminals and the larger subject.

or that blame the victim for rape.

It's rape or it's not although the man and woman can disagree on this because all events that include at least two humans have at least two perspectives.

So "rape stats" include tons of crap that isn't rape at all by any SANE definition.

Many (not all) stats are from college-kids-terms, highest likely % of course.

Women are being taught to consider nearly everything a degree of rape.
Grow UP already.

And rape is often 're-defined' as what a woman feels bad with LATER even if it was totally consensual at the time.


And now, even if a woman does NOT think it is rape, SOMEONE ELSE can re-classify her experience as rape.

And no matter whether a crime's even reported, we'll just say this crime is everywhere, utterly everywhere!


If it is, every approach feminists take to the subject is more harm than help.

RC

a reply to: rockintitz

This is the typical response from the gimme gimme generation. This is the same reason Bernie is so popular. Gimme gimme. There is no personal responsibility or accountability. If there is a problem, someone else should solve it, and someone else should pay for it.

I just watched one of the John Oliver (last week tonight) videos about online harrassment
www.youtube.com...

There are some good points and certainly it's a worse problem for women (but not only for women). The video does focus exclusively on women.

No, it doesn't address massive groups of social media feminists creating virtual mafias to destroy individuals who disagree with their global-men-as-criminals philosophy, so it's a bit off topic in that regard. It's more about individuals who threaten other individuals.

But it also brought up -- in a topic that isn't rape so I found it interesting as a parallel -- the issue of having someone behave criminally toward you, and then having others and even law enforcement and attorneys say, you shouldn't have made yourself vulnerable, don't do that again, but there's probably not much we can do about it.

This was in response to "revenge porn" which is when a person allows someone to take nude or sex photos of them (or even sends them to someone), and then later that person shares them with others, the internet, or even intentionally targets people they know with them.

JO brings up the whole "blaming the victim" thing and says that this response is the equivalent of saying you shouldn't live in a house if you don't want to get burglarized. But I don't think it is because everybody has to live somewhere, so that's ridiculous, but people definitely do NOT have to take/share nude/sex photos with other people -- it's high risk behavior.

I thought it was interesting since it (a) was only about women for some reason, and (b) used the blame-the-victim complaint about something. I guess it seems like in general this overall 'philosophy' is like a whole way of thinking.

It also of course went on about how there is no "explicit federal law against revenge porn" and only some states have one. I guess we need to make yet more laws about every possible bad thing that can happen. I agree it's wrong and damaging and injust behavior. I just don't know that there is any sane way of getting the government to take care of us totally unless we go into some totally Orwellian state to make it possible.

Then everything is illegal. Then everything is videotaped and has evidence. And so on.

RC

a reply to: Winstonian

Personal accountability for being raped?

originally posted by: redmage
So I ask you, InTheLight, in your opinion am I a victim of rape?

Re: the actual experience, dude, I would so be telling her husband about it.

RC

Re: the actual experience, dude, I would so be telling her husband about it.

He's aware.

originally posted by: InTheLight
This research believes rape is a learned behaviour; therefore, rape culture.
www.d.umn.edu...
For those genuinely interested in discussing the underlying issues, I recommend reading the paper in the link above.

I read the link at www.d.umn.edu... thanks for the reference.

This is a review of hardcore rapists in prison nearly all of whom had burglary, assault, multiple rapes, felony history, etc.

As I have an interest in psychology and sociology, NLP and communications I find it interesting enough, but...

Many rape stats and certainly the 3rdWaveFems are dealing with some college kid who made it with a semi drunk enthusiastic sorority girl upstairs at a party, and comparing this to some felon who on getting out, broke into a house and raped a woman, seems ludicrous to me.

Sure you can say elements relate -- we're all humans, anything about psyche and comm will -- but just because a legit violent rapist will say X about the event (e.g. that it was consensual and she enjoyed it after he broke into her house and tied her to the bed or something, my god) does not mean that said college guy saying X (it was consensual) means he is lying because "that's just another way of excusing his own behavior to himself."

It's a logical fallacy that just because one person or character-type says X, that anybody else saying X must have that character-type.

In the case of reviewing rapists in prison, and then dividing all their communications into "categories of excuse, justification, rationalization, and so on," one is assuming -- rightly, we assume! -- that they are all guilty of course, that's why they are in prison for it.

But it creates "witch-hunt logic" -- if she floats she's a witch! If she drowns she's innocent! -- that no matter WHAT a man says when accused, now he gets a "category of communication" assigned to whatever he said as defense -- as if he is de-facto guilty so we can just view any communications in that light. But that is assuming guilt, not assuming innocence, and we live in a country with a constitution designed to assume innocence.

RC

originally posted by: redmage
a reply to: RedCairo
As the post, and question about my experience, was directed towards her; I think it would be unfair of me to elaborate much further until she's had an adequate chance to provide her meaningful response.

You're right, and sorry about that.
RC

a reply to: RedCairo

So "rape stats" include tons of crap that isn't rape at all by any SANE definition.

I am being totally real here, not trying to get flamed, but, what about when I really am not in the mood for intimacy with my husband tonight, but I go along with it, because that is part of being married. How many people would consider that rape? I mean, there have to be people out there that would lump that into those numbers.

Kind of makes me think of how FL has the most shark attacks of any place in the US (maybe the world- don't remember, from Shark week a few years ago), BUT that is because any physical encounter with a shark reported is classified as an "attack". Shark brushes your leg-"I've been attacked".

originally posted by: chelsdh
How many people would consider that rape?

Plenty of the people online use vastly less than that for Rape's definition so probably many.

But legally:

Marital rape means any unwanted sexual acts by a spouse or ex-spouse that is committed without the other person's consent. Such illegal sexual activity are done using force, threat of force, intimidation, or when a person is unable to consent.

If unable to consent means, she is asleep when you begin it, we just need to jail every man who's ever been married. I seem to recall some politician (not that I would defend any politician, but...) getting attacked in social media for suggesting that this would not be rape.

RC

P.S. I am the last person to ask about marital rape however, since except in extreme cases, I just don't believe in it. I do believe it happens obviously, I just don't believe it should be a legal issue except as testimony for a divorce or stalking case.

a reply to: RedCairo

It's one big blurred line, and that is part of the problem. Like I said in an earlier (way earlier) post here, "rape" doesn't mean what it used to, doesn't hold the same weight. As a matter of fact, because of all the crap flying around now, I don't pay much attention to headlines that use it. It's been dumbed down. If you can claim you were raped when you delivered your baby because they used forceps when it wasn't in your birth plan, then I don't pay the word heed. And I would think that is the complete opposite of what activists would want.

originally posted by: chelsdh
And I would think that is the complete opposite of what activists would want.

Well, to me, that's like saying that hellfire-brimstone religious paranoia about evil everywhere and in everyone who isn't your group would be the last thing any preacher would want since he's in a religion allegedly promoting love. But modern feminists as I perceive their writings are a lot like fundie preachers without the god -- it's the power over the masses they want and they control by the amount of fear they are able to invoke in others. Their efforts pointedly do the most harm to the people and efforts that they allegedly are most trying to help.

It's just sad in religion.

It's more than sad when the results start directly threatening an entire category of people they've assigned as the devil.

a reply to: RedCairo

Not really asking.... just something that I have thought about since this thread was started. I do think rape can occur in marriage. But, being honest here, I'm not always in the mood, but I go along with it because I do feel (gasp, horror) that is a part of my commitment to my husband. I'm no door mat, but sometimes I put his needs before my desire to go to sleep.

And to some people, that is horrific and could be called rape.

a reply to: redmage

Did you consent? And if her relartonship status was so important to you in making the decision to consent, why didn't you ask first?

originally posted by: InTheLight
Did you consent?

There was mutual consent at the time.

originally posted by: InTheLight
And if her relartonship status was so important to you in making the decision to consent, why didn't you ask first?

I didn't feel the need to specifically ask again because we were close friends for three years before she came to visit. She already knew my stance regarding cheating, and we had discussed her "two previous divorces" on numerous occasions throughout those years of friendship. It was only after she returned home that she admitted she had only been divorced once, not twice, and was still married to the 2nd husband.

In your opinion, am I a victim of rape?

originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: redmage

Did you consent? And if her relartonship status was so important to you in making the decision to consent, why didn't you ask first?

So you're blaming the victim here?
That woman wouldn't have been sleeping with him while married if HE had done something differently??

According to the logic so far on this topic he had no real responsibility and suggesting he did is just victim blaming.

a reply to: redmage

Odd, I must say. So, the questions I have then are - do you feel you were raped rather than betrayed after giving your consent and does the law include this as sexual coersion due to withholding information which would allow one to make an informed decision regarding sexual consent to be a form of rape?

originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: redmage

Odd, I must say. So, the questions I have then are - do you feel you were raped rather than betrayed after giving your consent and does the law include this as sexual coersion due to withholding information which would allow one to make an informed decision regarding sexual consent to be a form of rape? What we define as rape in our minds may not fit a lawful societal consensus definition of rape.

However, the law is clear about giving consent.

edit on 17-4-2016 by InTheLight because: (no reason given)

originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: redmage

Odd, I must say. So, the questions I have then are - do you feel you were raped rather than betrayed after giving your consent and does the law include this as sexual coersion due to withholding information which would allow one to make an informed decision regarding sexual consent to be a form of rape?

Again, the question is "do you think I am a victim of rape?"

I want to know your thoughts and feelings on the situation.