Rape Culture

a reply to: redmage

Yes, these and other underlying societal, cultural, and psychological questions need to be addressed and discussed regarding the law, definitions of rape, and what is consent for a clear understanding for all, which is sorely lacking in this thread.

originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: redmage

Yes...

Ok, before I go further, and to make sure there are no mistaken assumptions on my part.

In your eyes, you feel that I'm a victim of rape, and a part of that "80% of rapes go unreported" estimate.

Correct?

a reply to: redmage

What is your definition and understanding of sexual consent?

originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: redmage

What is your definition and understanding of sexual consent?

I will gladly expand upon this, but I need to know that we're on the same page first, and that I'm not making any assumptions on your behalf.

From your previous statement, in your eyes, you feel that I'm a victim of rape, and a part of that "80% of rapes go unreported" estimate.

Is this correct?

a reply to: redmage

I cannot make an informed opinion without your input, by defining and explaining why you think it was rape and not betrayal.

originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: redmage
I cannot make an informed opinion without your input

I've given an abundance of input by sharing a very detailed personal experience.

I'm looking for meaningful dialogue, and I want to know your personal opinions and feelings on the matter.

originally posted by: InTheLight
by defining and explaining why you think it was rape and not betrayal.

I haven't said whether or not I felt it was rape, or a betrayal.

What I've said is that I absolutely regret the situation, and never would have consented if had I know she was still married to the 2nd husband.

I want to hear your opinion regarding the personal and detailed situation I've shared, and your opinion should not be based upon my own.

I would love to continue, and gladly will, but I need to know that we're on the same page first, and that I'm not making any assumptions on your behalf.

From your previous statement, it appears that you feel that I'm a victim of rape, and a part of that "80% of rapes go unreported" estimate.

Is this correct?

a reply to: redmage

If a married man dates a woman without telling her he is married and she consents to sexual relations, and she later discovers that he is married, do you think that could be considered as rape, even though non-disclosure of marital status does not fall within the lawful definition of rape nor definition of what is considered to be a lack of consent?

originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: redmage

If a married man dates a woman without telling her he is married and she consents to sexual relations, and she later discovers that he is married, do you think that could be considered as rape?

That is exactly what I'm asking your opinion on, except that in my case it wasn't hypothetical, it was the woman who was married, and the woman who didn't tell the truth.

originally posted by: InTheLight
these and other underlying societal, cultural, and psychological questions need to be addressed and discussed regarding the law, definitions of rape, and what is consent for a clear understanding for all, which is sorely lacking in this thread.

Yes, we absolutely agree that these need to be addressed.

One of the things you feel needs to be addressed is "definitions of rape" which you state is "sorely lacking in this thread".

I'm trying to address that very issue.

Clearly you're very passionate about the issue, thus you must have a definition of rape in mind when you hear the word.

What I'm asking is, does my experience fit your definition? Do you feel I am a victim of rape?

Again, from your previous statement, it appears that you feel that I am a victim of rape, and a part of that "80% of rapes go unreported" estimate.

Is this correct?

a reply to: redmage

As I stated previously, I need input from you to make an informed decision, so do you consider your experience and my scenario to be cases of rape or betrayal and why?

a reply to: InTheLight

For someone who claims to be passionate about the issue, I find it astounding that you appear to have no personal opinion or definition of rape that you're willing to stand up for without someone elses influence first.

It's not a complicated question. Does my experience fit your definition of rape?

originally posted by: redmage
a reply to: InTheLight

For someone who claims to be passionate about the issue, I find it astounding that you have no personal opinion or definition of rape that you're willing to stand up for.

It's not a complicated question. Does my experience fit your definition of rape?

The same applies to you and I find it disappointing that you refuse to answer my question to help me understand which page you are on regarding your personal definition of rape.

Also, I am interested in understanding many issues not necessarily any one in particular, so, again, you are making assumptions.

Overpopulation.

originally posted by: InTheLight
The same applies to you and I find it disappointing that you refuse to answer my question to help me understand which page you are on regarding your personal definition of rape.

No, I shared a detailed personal experience and asked if it fit your definition of rape.

My opinion on the matter should have absolutely no bearing whatsoever on yours. You're a free thinking individual who should be perfectly capable of forming and supporting your own opinions without needing help from others first.

originally posted by: InTheLight
Also, I am interested in understanding many issues not necessarily any one in particular, so, again, you are making assumptions.

There are no assumptions from me regarding that. I was simply, and pragmatically, attempting to address one issue at a time to avoid confusion. There's no reasonable way to address them all at once.

Sadly, it's becoming more and more clear that you have no personal opinion regarding the definition of rape, or you wouldn't find answering a simple question such a struggle without responding with "What's your opinion first?".

It amazes me that you can pretend to be so passionate regarding something that you appear to lack an opinion on.

Using the word rape to describe activities other than actual rape lessens the impact that such violation should have on us, and strays dangerously close to normalizing it.

Rape is a crossing of another’s sexual boundaries without their permission—or with their coerced permission. It is a sexualized trespassing and violation of their being. Its tools are various combinations of physical force, threat, coercion, abuse of authority, manipulation, and a capacity to shut off empathy and override conscience. Rape features aggression and lust in a darkly compelling embrace, being allowed to possess and run one, in contexts ranging from the mundane to the evil.

www.truth-out.org...

a reply to: InTheLight

We know, you're handy with links.

If only you could form and express your own original thoughts and ideas (instead of constantly relying on links to supply them for you) the discussion might have a chance at becoming something meaningful.

originally posted by: redmage
a reply to: InTheLight

We know, you're handy with links.

If only you could form and express your own original thoughts and ideas (instead of constantly relying on links to supply them for you) the discussion might have a chance at becoming something meaningful.

The same could be said for you in explaining your stance and/or defining rape and consent. The links I post are informative and delve deep into rape culture as others perceive and live it.

originally posted by: InTheLight
The same could be said for you in explaining your stance and/or defining rape and consent.

I believe the vast majority of women are more than capable of forming their own opinions without a man's input. Ask yourself, why should your opinion be based upon mine?

originally posted by: InTheLight
The links I post are informative and delve deep into rape culture as others perceive and live it.

If I wanted Robert Masters' opinion I would have asked him, or googled him myself.

Unfortunately, I was more interested in your opinion, and you appear to have none to share without someone else providing them for you.

a reply to: redmage

Because your personal take and your definition of rape or consent may sway me to form a new opinion or cement an already existing opinion, yet you refuse to explain why you would consider it rape as opposed to betrayal.

If you truly wanted a meaningful exchange, you would have zeroed in on Robert's "giving consent through coersion" point and we could have, together, defined how this relates to your experience or my scenario, or other' experiences.

If we aren't interested in comparing personal experiences, expert research, or corroborative statistics, how rape is legitimized in media and every day society, then we will forever be spinning our wheels.

originally posted by: InTheLight
Because your personal take and your definition of rape or consent may sway me to form a new opinion

You have to actually have an opinion before it could possibly be swayed. So far you've offered none. Nothing to sway, or to cement.

originally posted by: InTheLight
yet you refuse to explain why you would consider it rape as opposed to betrayal.

I haven't said either of these things. I said I regret the experience, and never would have consented if had I know she was still married to the 2nd husband.

originally posted by: InTheLight
If you truly wanted a meaningful exchange, you would have zeroed in on Robert's "giving consent through coersion" point and we could have, together, defined how this relates to your experience or my scenario, or other' experiences.

Sorry, if I wanted to have a meaningful discussion with Robert I would have gone to the source. I wanted to have a meaningful discussion with you regarding your thoughts and feelings on the matter.

originally posted by: InTheLight
If we aren't interested in comparing personal experiences

Where have you been? I shared a very personal experience. You've shared absolutely nothing except the words of others, and deflection. You've offered nothing personal to compare, yet keep complaining that you want more and more from me.

Meaningful dialogue is a two way street.

a reply to: InTheLight

Oh good grief already!

So given this thread's long history: if someone suggests a specific topic you can't discuss it unless they explain something else (indefinite loop on that). If someone addresses a topic you yourself presented, you still can't discuss it unless they explain something else entirely that wasn't even brought up as needing definition (and was irrelevant).

If someone gives a detailed example of something which based on your previous bare comments (most related to links elsewhere) would indicate a definition of X, and they ask you point-blank incredibly clear questions -- repeatedly -- you cannot under any situation have any opinion of your own, you can only repeatedly ask for theirs.

At least you evolved beyond one-liners I guess...

You're an individual, right? You're not like some kind of bot or group?

Aside from "we live in a rape culture" is there a single opinion you have, or topic involved, that you are actually willing to have any discussion about that isn't merely evasion, misdirection, one-liners or links elsewhere?

I mean people are giving you a genuine chance to participate in a 'meaningful' way which you say you want. But in 15 pages of thread you've had almost no conversation that doesn't fit one of the descriptions above. You're like an abstract hit & run, not a conversationalist.

Communications integrity is pretty important on the internet, it's all we have.

RC