The tip of the iceberg: Egregious abuses by Israeli soldiers.

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask
I agree. And he blamed of beliefs I do not have. I was hoping to gain information, additional information, but was met with a very closed response. I still want to know whether the supposed victims are truly the innocent sheep he has tried to tell us they are, or she has.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
Palestinians that aim for children's eyes when they shoot real bullets...
Parasitic squatters who stab children to death...


These are your witness' to these "stabbings".


Do me a favour.

FTFY.

You do realize that these "Palestinians" originally came from Jordan right? Maybe even Lebanon as well. If I remember right, they were kicked out for this kind of behavior.

What are your opinions on the Siege of Jerusalem 587 I wonder.. (not really) But that's for a different thread I suppose.

originally posted by: voyger2
The tip of the iceberg: Egregious abuses by Israeli soldiers.

Any 'report' by anti-Semites is still worse than worthless!
I see bias, and downright lies.

a reply to: chr0naut

Boy, way to douse the party with logic. Remember a lie told often enough fools the Ignorant. It's the only play in the book in the Middle East.

originally posted by: pavil
a reply to: chr0naut

Boy, way to douse the party with logic. Remember a lie told often enough fools the Ignorant. It's the only play in the book in the Middle East.

Perhaps instead of warring, they could have a mega party. Those who party hardest get to host the next party and are resourced by having control over the 'strip'.

originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: voyger2

You seem to be heavily biased one way, so we won't agree on what constitutes a valid source.

That's your opinion, that don't change any of the evidence presented on the videos. And look, your only point around here was to discuss "bias source", instead of the evidence presented. That says a lot about "heavily biased one way" around here.
Thank you.

originally posted by: chr0naut
There were UN personnel embedded in Gaza during the conflict (they ran a number of schools and also were the primary channel of mediation between Hamas & Israel).

Yes they were, they were bombed like the victims: UN Warned Israel SEVENTEEN TIMES That School Was a Refugee Camp - 16 People Murdered. But they weren't a committee with a mandate and knowledge to investigate War Crimes and Human Rights Violations. Nevertheless they did report what they could.

originally posted by: chr0naut
I have no knowledge of UN personnel being prevented from entering Gaza. They also reported on the casualties, number of rockets fired and destruction of property (among other data) during the conflict.
[..]
I am unable to verify if Amnesty was prevented from assessing the situation.

I will give you that knowledge ("call it biased"):

Israel has continued to deny access to Gaza for international human rights organizations including Amnesty International and the organization has been forced to conduct its research for this report remotely, supported by two fieldworkers based in Gaza. Israel has also announced that it will not co-operate with the Commission of Inquiry established by the UN Human Rights Council.

Failing to allow independent human rights monitors into Gaza smacks of a deliberately orchestrated attempt to cover up violations or hide from international scrutiny. Israel must cooperate fully with the UN Commission of Inquiry and grant international human rights organizations such as Amnesty International immediate access to Gaza to prove its commitment to human rights”

denyal of access to gaza

originally posted by: chr0naut
There were human rights violations on both sides of the conflict, the numerical majority of those violations were perpetrated by Hamas combatants.

FALSE. Prove what you just said, here some "quick" numbers of War Crimes and Human Rights Violation from Israel (just in one assault in 2014, to the Palestinian people):

- 2,251 Palestinians killed, including 1,462 civilians, 551 of whom were children;
-11,200+ Palestinians injured, including more than 3,400 children;
- 26 Attacks in which ambulances were hit;
- 26 government schools were totally destroyed and 209 schools sustained damages (122 government schools, 83 UNRWA schools and four private schools;
- 117 hospitals, clinics and pharmacies damaged or destroyed;
- 3 universities were directly hit in Israeli strikes and 8 universities sustained collateral damage;
- Almost 500,000 people displaced during the war; some 100,000 still without a permanent home one year later;
- 18,080 units, housing that were totally destroyed or severely damaged;
- Destruction of the only power station in Gaza
- Water Utility, 63 water facilities were damaged; among them 23 were completely destroyed;
- wastewater pumping station.
- 17,000 hectares of cropland and other agricultural infrastructure was substantially damaged,

Amnesty International - Justice for the victims of war crimes in Gaza

More:
Amnesty International Report 2014/15: The State of the World's Human Rights
Report (page 197):
ISRAEL AND THE OCCUPIED PALESTINIAN TERRITORIES

«Israeli forces committed war crimes and human rights violations during a 50-day military offensive in the Gaza Strip that killed over 1,500 civilians, including 539 children, wounded thousands more civilians, and caused massive civilian displacement and destruction of property and vital services.

Israel maintained its air, sea and land blockade of Gaza, imposing collective punishment on its approximately 1.8 million inhabitants and stoking the humanitarian crisis.

In the West Bank, Israeli forces carried out unlawful killings of Palestinian protesters, including children, and maintained an array of oppressive restrictions on Palestinians’ freedom of movement while continuing to promote illegal settlements and allow Israeli settlers to attack Palestinians and destroy their property with near total impunity.»

originally posted by: chr0naut
Violence and war is deplorable and has been proven to be a pointless waste. After the smoke has cleared, neither the Palestinian of Jewish people are better off in any way.

I agree. Is Time to free Palestinians. To Stop the Siege and End the Blockade.

originally posted by: namelesss
Any 'report' by anti-Semites is still worse than worthless!
I see bias, and downright lies.

If the footage doesn't go by the Israeli moto and propaganda it's biased. Yeah right! What about the cold hearted executions of the young girls, boys referred in the video of the OP? What about the full equipped soldiers killing human beings with their hands raised in the air, in panic? Were is mercy? Who are those settlers and soldiers to shot dead anyone in the street's? There is "thousand ways" to IMMOBILIZE anyone if you really want to! Why Kill and let anyone Bleed to Death? That's no lie, anti-semite or bias to me!! It's just everyone needs to know the truth of the criminal acts going on over there.

originally posted by: voyger2

originally posted by: chr0naut
There were UN personnel embedded in Gaza during the conflict (they ran a number of schools and also were the primary channel of mediation between Hamas & Israel).

Yes they were, they were bombed like the victims: UN Warned Israel SEVENTEEN TIMES That School Was a Refugee Camp - 16 People Murdered. But they weren't a committee with a mandate and knowledge to investigate War Crimes and Human Rights Violations. Nevertheless they did report what they could.

originally posted by: chr0naut
I have no knowledge of UN personnel being prevented from entering Gaza. They also reported on the casualties, number of rockets fired and destruction of property (among other data) during the conflict.
[..]
I am unable to verify if Amnesty was prevented from assessing the situation.

I will give you that knowledge ("call it biased"):

Israel has continued to deny access to Gaza for international human rights organizations including Amnesty International and the organization has been forced to conduct its research for this report remotely, supported by two fieldworkers based in Gaza. Israel has also announced that it will not co-operate with the Commission of Inquiry established by the UN Human Rights Council.

Failing to allow independent human rights monitors into Gaza smacks of a deliberately orchestrated attempt to cover up violations or hide from international scrutiny. Israel must cooperate fully with the UN Commission of Inquiry and grant international human rights organizations such as Amnesty International immediate access to Gaza to prove its commitment to human rights”

denyal of access to gaza

originally posted by: chr0naut
There were human rights violations on both sides of the conflict, the numerical majority of those violations were perpetrated by Hamas combatants.

FALSE. Prove what you just said, here some "quick" numbers of War Crimes and Human Rights Violation from Israel (just in one assault in 2014, to the Palestinian people):

- 2,251 Palestinians killed, including 1,462 civilians, 551 of whom were children;
-11,200+ Palestinians injured, including more than 3,400 children;
- 26 Attacks in which ambulances were hit;
- 20 schools, kindergartens and colleges completely destroyed; hundreds of others damaged;
According to other report from the United Nations, 26 government schools were totally destroyed and 209 schools sustained damages (122 government schools, 83 UNRWA schools and four private schools;
- 117 hospitals, clinics and pharmacies damaged or destroyed;
- 3 universities were directly hit in Israeli strikes and 8 universities sustained collateral damage;
- Almost 500,000 people displaced during the war; some 100,000 still without a permanent home one year later;
- 18,080 units, housing that were totally destroyed or severely damaged;
- Destruction of the only power station in Gaza
- Water Utility, 63 water facilities were damaged; among them 23 were completely destroyed;
- wastewater pumping station.
- 17,000 hectares of cropland and other agricultural infrastructure was substantially damaged,
Amnesty International - Justice for the victims of war crimes in Gaza

More:
Amnesty International Report 2014/15: The State of the World's Human Rights
Report (page 197):
ISRAEL AND THE OCCUPIED PALESTINIAN TERRITORIES

«Israeli forces committed war crimes and human rights violations during a 50-day military offensive in the Gaza Strip that killed over 1,500 civilians, including 539 children, wounded thousands more civilians, and caused massive civilian displacement and destruction of property and vital services.

Israel maintained its air, sea and land blockade of Gaza, imposing collective punishment on its approximately 1.8 million inhabitants and stoking the humanitarian crisis.

In the West Bank, Israeli forces carried out unlawful killings of Palestinian protesters, including children, and maintained an array of oppressive restrictions on Palestinians’ freedom of movement while continuing to promote illegal settlements and allow Israeli settlers to attack Palestinians and destroy their property with near total impunity.»

originally posted by: chr0naut
Violence and war is deplorable and has been proven to be a pointless waste. After the smoke has cleared, neither the Palestinian of Jewish people are better off in any way.

I agree. Is Time to free Palestinians. To Stop the Siege and Enc the Blockade.

The Israeli's dropped pamphlets prior to bombing, telling people to leave their houses as there were Hamas military targets (like the tunnels they used to get bombs and rockets past the wall) nearby. One of the accusations against Hamas was that they prevented people from leaving their homes as a human shield.

The UN, aware that some of their schools were likely to be under fire, vacated and closed 23 schools for the safety of students and staff. They did not 'hang around' asking Israel multiple times to not be in the firing line. That is simply not a safe or logical thing to do and indicates an error in reasoning by those who are attempting to use this as propaganda.

Hamas are also accused of using UN schools, that had been vacated during the conflict, for the storage and launching of rockets and other military equipment. This was reported on three separate occasions by the UNRWA who ran the schools and they even turned over some of the rockets they found, to the IDF, as proof.

The UN figures on casualties, weapons use and damage are different and more specific than those of Amnesty (which were provided to Amnesty by Hamas).

I do not believe that ending the blockade would cease hostilities. I don't think it would 'free' any Palestinians, either.

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask

originally posted by: schuyler
But "stabbing Jews" or blowing up a bus load of students is okay.

I love how they always use that map too, wasnt CNN or CNBC called out for their BS just a few days ago for using a similar map?

I think its interesting, that Palestenians can storm the worship place of jews, hatchet them to death, stone them, stab them, go out on the streets and stab people, try to blow up places with car bombs......

And yet Israel isnt suppose to react.......and if they do they are evil

Meanwhile in Palestine, they are airing videos on how to stab jews, and how to be a martyr

Peoples logic is considerably screwed up

Star for you.A sounder analysis of the anti-semites on this board is spot on.Damaged human beings whose focus of life is hating Jews.Some life...

Just balancing out your propaganda a bit -

originally posted by: chr0naut
The UN, aware that some of their schools were likely to be under fire, vacated and closed 23 schools for the safety of students and staff. They did not 'hang around' asking Israel multiple times to not be in the firing line. That is simply not a safe or logical thing to do and indicates an error in reasoning by those who are attempting to use this as propaganda.
Hamas are also accused of using UN schools, that had been vacated during the conflict, for the storage and launching of rockets and other military equipment. This was reported on three separate occasions by the UNRWA who ran the schools and they even turned over some of the rockets they found, to the IDF, as proof.

Attacks on schools serving as United Nations-designated shelters for internally-displaced persons

OHCHR documented a number of cases where those seeking shelter found they had nowhere safe to go. [..] UNRWA notified the Israeli authorities 33 times of the coordinates of the shelter, and the fact that it was housing displaced persons, the last time one hour before the incident. Eyewitnesses said that there were no activities of armed groups in the area at the time.

Attacks on hospitals and medical personnel

According to the World Health Organization, 17 hospitals and 56 primary health clinics were destroyed or sustained damages during hostilities[..] There are also numerous reports of attacks on or near ambulances and ambulance staff, causing death, injury and damage. In several cases, this was even after ambulances coordinated their movement directly with the Israeli Civil Liaison Office or through the ICRC. Three PRCS staff, including the driver, had to leave the vehicle to reach the child, which they did only after coordination with the IDF via the ICRC. The IDF then allegedly shot the driver. The remaining PRCS staff were allegedly shot at several times

Attacks on other civilian objects and infrastructure

Civilian objects protected under international humanitarian law - such as industrial infrastructure, farms, water and sanitation installations, the Gaza Power Plant, a water desalination station, mosques, and universities - sustained severe damage or were destroyed.[..] In any event, the widespread impact of destruction of such facilities would make it very unlikely that such attacks could be proportionate

From this report I only transcribed some of the IDF War crimes .. (Please start using source for your claims)

originally posted by: chr0naut
The UN figures on casualties, weapons use and damage are different and more specific than those of Amnesty (which were provided to Amnesty by Hamas).

So Amnesty info is now provided by Hamas? wow! Amazing shift from your previous "list" of non biased organizations!?

By the way did I cleared up the denial of access to Gaza, or not?

originally posted by: chr0naut
I do not believe that ending the blockade would cease hostilities. I don't think it would 'free' any Palestinians, either.

That's your opinion, and your opinion it's Wrong, because it's against the Law!
UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS
Article 1.
Article 3.
Article 4.
Article 9.
Article 15. (1)

We are all born born free and equal in dignity and rights. Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security. No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile.

a reply to: MaxMech

Here is "lie" in blue & White for you:
United Nations General Assembly Resolution 43/176
Key elements of the resolution:

1- withdrawal of Israel from the occupied Palestinian territories, including Jerusalem, and from the other occupied Arab territories (that is the Golan Heights);

2-security of all States in the region, including those named in Resolution 181(that is Israel and Palestine), within secure and internationally recognized boundaries

3- execution of Resolution 194;

4- dismantling the Israeli settlements

5- free access to Holy Places

There are no angels in this conflict. There are victims on both sides, but no angels. If you are truly objective and research the conflict with an open mind, you can see that extremists on both sides are to blame for the current state of affairs.

Sure, you could ridicule Israelis for not overthrowing their corrupt government, but the same could be said for the Palestinians and those whom represent them.

At the end of the day, we need to find a peaceful solution to the conflict. It's not going to be achieved by trying to illegitimise either side's right to exist. That is what this conflict has turned into - a propaganda war trying to highlight why one side should be sympathised with and the other side criticised.

originally posted by: Dark Ghost
At the end of the day, we need to find a peaceful solution to the conflict. It's not going to be achieved by trying to illegitimise either side's right to exist.

I full support this statement, has I believe that anyone with a right heart and mind set does.
So, let's start to give the Palestinians their right to exist has state has defined by the UN. This is the basic principle to achieve peace, in my opinion.

a reply to: voyger2



Do you think the Palestinians are entitled to a state before or after they denounce the use of suicide child soldiers(a war crime)?
Because otherwise they will be doing it on a state sponsored level( As if they aren't already)

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs

originally posted by: schuyler
But "stabbing Jews" or blowing up a bus load of students is okay.

Said no one on ATS ever.

LOL OH no....i think there have been a few trolls who have said as much on ATS before. SOmething about IF they are occupiers then they should expect to be attacked and have no room to complain if and when some of them die.

COnsidering PAlestine was never a country.(but but but they got passports and everything. dont mean they are actually a country) The UN made a country out of it and up till the new country was attacked planned to make another one after israel for the others in the area.

NO matter th ecircumstance though. Jordanian,gazan Palestinians have done as worse as ISraelis have done. So no sympathy from me. Our morals have no place in middle eastern cultures. As such the biased reporting on both sides should be ignored.

originally posted by: voyger2

originally posted by: Dark Ghost
At the end of the day, we need to find a peaceful solution to the conflict. It's not going to be achieved by trying to illegitimise either side's right to exist.

I full support this statement, has I believe that anyone with a right heart and mind set does.
So, let's start to give the Palestinians their right to exist has state has defined by the UN. This is the basic principle to achieve peace, in my opinion.

The UN already decided on this. resolution 242. The areas the "palestinians" are in belong to their respective countries that ISrael tried to give back to them but they refuse and said to israel keep it because they dont have the will to get their peoples/refugees to behave themselves.

a reply to: dashen

I don't know what you are talking about, please explain and use sources, please.
I'm not a native english speaker.
Thank you

originally posted by: yuppa
The UN already decided on this. resolution 242.

Wrong!
United Nations Security Council Resolution 242, was adopted unanimously by the UN Security Council on November 22, 1967.

United Nations General Assembly Resolution 43/176 15 December 1988

Get your facts straight.

originally posted by: voyger2

originally posted by: yuppa
The UN already decided on this. resolution 242.

Wrong!
United Nations Security Council Resolution 242, was adopted unanimously by the UN Security Council on November 22, 1967.

United Nations General Assembly Resolution 43/176 15 December 1988

Get your facts straight.

Excuse me but BOTH practically say the same thing.181 says basically the same thing. ANd ISnt it weird that resolutions with lower numbers are more modern?

All resolutions are binding though and UNTIL 242 is fully implemented its still in effect. ISnt it in their by laws that all resolutions ar e binding and are active in perpetuity?

Reading it YEs they ARE the same basically. The JORDANIANS own th ewest bank,and GASP its full of "palestinians refugees from GASP JORDAN!!" JOrdan refuses to reclaim it. SO what do? Same with GAZA and Egypt. Circular arguments Voyager. It comes down to th earab nations around israel not doing their mandated jobs.