North Korea Declares State of War.

The people that point their little "afraid of the big bad wolf" fingers at South Korea and blame them for trying to instigate war need to look at history.

2000s[edit]
2001: On twelve separate occasions, North Korean vessels cross the Northern Limit Line and then withdraw.
November 27, 2001: North and South Korean forces exchange fire without injuries.
June 29, 2002: Renewed naval clashes near the Northern Limit Line lead to the deaths of four South Korean sailors and the sinking of a South Korean vessel. The number of North Koreans killed is unknown.
November 16, 2002: South Korean forces fire warning shots on a Northern boat crossing the Northern Limit Line. The boat withdraws. The similar incident is repeated on November 20.
February 19, 2003: A North Korean fighter plane crosses seven miles (11 km) south of the Northern Limit Line, and returns north after being intercepted by six South Korean planes.
March 2, 2003: Four North Korean fighter jets intercept a US reconnaissance plane over the Sea of Japan.
July 17, 2003: North and South Korean forces exchange fire at the DMZ around 6 AM. The South Korean army reports four rounds fired from the North and seventeen from the South. No injuries are reported.[12]
November 1, 2004: North Korean vessels, claiming to be in pursuit of illegal fishing craft, cross the Northern Limit Line and are fired upon by the South. The vessels withdraw 3 hours later.
July 30, 2006: Several rounds are exchanged near a South Korean post in Yanggu, Gangwon.
Wikinews has related news: Korean navies exchange fire
November 10, 2009: Naval vessels from the two Koreas exchanged fire in the area of the NLL, reportedly causing serious damage to a North Korean patrol ship.[13] For more details of this incident, see Battle of Daecheong.
2010s[edit]
March 26, 2010: A South Korean naval vessel, the ROKS Cheonan, was allegedly sunk by a North Korean torpedo near Baengnyeong Island in the Yellow Sea. A rescue operation recovered 58 survivors but 46 sailors were killed. On May 20, 2010, a South Korean led international investigation group concluded that the sinking of the warship was in fact the result of a North Korean torpedo attack.[14][15] North Korea denied involvement.[16] The United Nations Security Council made a Presidential Statement condemning the attack but without identifying the attacker.[17]
November 23, 2010: North Korea fired artillery at South Korea's Greater Yeonpyeong island in the Yellow Sea and South Korea returned fire. Two South Korean marines and two South Korean civilians were killed, six were seriously wounded, and ten were treated for minor injuries. About seventy South Korean houses were destroyed.[18][19][20] North Korean casualties were unknown, but Lee Hong-gi, the Director of Operations of the South Korean Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS), claimed that as a result of the South Korean retaliation "there may be a considerable number of North Korean casualties".[21]
October 10, 2014: North Korean forces fired anti-aircraft rounds at propaganda balloons launched from Paju. South Korean military returned fire after a pre-warning.[22]
August 4, 2015: Two South Korean soldiers were wounded after stepping on landmines that had allegedly been laid on the southern side of the DMZ by North Korean forces next to a ROK guard post.[23] Kim Jin Moon of the South Korean based Korea Institute for Defense Analyses, suggested that the incident was planned by members of the General Bureau of Reconnaissance to prove their loyalty to Kim Jong-un.[24]
August 20, 2015: After South Korea resumed playing propaganda on loudspeakers near the border, and North Korea had threatened to attack those loudspeakers, North Korea fired a rocket and shells across the border into Yeoncheon County. South Korea responded by firing artillery shells back at the origin of the rocket. There were no reports of injuries on either side.[25]

So when does South Korea actually get to defend its self and say enough is enough? My wife just read this article and told me that the time is now. Finally South might realize that reunification will never happen while there is evil at the helm of the north. Do I like war? No but I do like a free people that can live life without constant fear of a nuclear saber rattler that will shoot random shells near a village over speakers.


As far as NK military capabilities... you guys are way overestimating them. I don't think NK can cross anything much bigger than an Artillery shell across the line without the South knowing about it and having the ability to shoot it down.
If war happens... make no mistake. It will be a slaughter. That is the real reason every US president sleeps on NK threats. They are a joke to everyone but their poor cousins to the south.



-Jesus

a reply to: YeahYea4

I'm not worried about what is going over the border as much as under it. Get a decent sized group of irregulars across and they can do some real damage for a bit. Win? Hell no. Cause chaos and damage? Hell yes.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Darkblade71

China hasn't been happy with North Korea in recent years.

I'm sorry, but how do you know what China feels right now?
China economy has begun to slip and war is always good way to boost a economy...plus China has come to NK aid before there is no reason to say they won't again.

While I don't think China or any other country will come to NKs aid if they start a war, I do think they will come to their defense if war is declared on them. Thus the stalemate, and the continued aggressive language and tactics of NK trying to provoke SK into an attack.

a reply to: Ancient Champion

By following sources including Chinese. The last few years have seen hundreds of North Korean citizens sneaking across the border illegally, sometimes a couple thousand a month. China has tried to work deals between the West and NK that they've blown off or ignored. Their relationship has changed in recent years and they've gone far from where they were in the 50s.

originally posted by: Ancient Champion

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Darkblade71

China hasn't been happy with North Korea in recent years.

I'm sorry, but how do you know what China feels right now?

I think the same way that many people in these threads just absolutely know the military might, strategies, plans, capabilities of every nation on Earth. It all comes down to "WE'LL TURN 'EM TO GLASS IN MINUTES!"

Too much Game of Thrones

It's absolutely hilarious and a little embarrassing actually. Watch these threads and it seems that we have a round table of military strategists, generals, weapons experts all lathering up in blood and spit.

Jude

a reply to: Zaphod58

Great point. I wonder what technology the south has as far as underground listening? The border is what 90 miles or so? Im not a korean expert actually.

a reply to: Ancient Champion

I'm under the impression that China is about at their breaking point when it comes to North Korea. If I remember correctly, China in a way forced North Korea to return to the negotiating table over their nuclear arsenal a couple years ago. Also, a month before that China told North Korea to stop starting problems.

I don't believe China would back North Korea if they resume the war. I also don't think China would sit idly by while South Korea, aided by the US, took over North Korea. China would pull a move like Russia and take over North Korea. China doesn't need the instability any more than the US does.

a reply to: EternalSolace

China would back a north Korea that actually had enough money to buy goods. China is a smart smart cookie and sees a larger picture of Korean friendship that can buy crappy goods.

a reply to: YeahYea4

They've found some insanely elaborate tunnels under the DMZ in the last ten years. Some of them were big enough to drive vehicles, or move about a regiment an hour through.

South Korea is a US proxy state. That's why their police and government are so corrupt.

North Korea wishes to be nothing but isolationist. Obviously they make mistakes (the famine proceeding their dam project failure) but they are their mistakes to make. Leave North Korea alone. This shouldn't have to end in blood but it is what South Korea wants.

a reply to: Ancient Champion

...but how many more times is China willing to come to the rescue?

I wouldn't be surprised if China left NK to fend for themselves and just beefed up defense in the region on their own.

a reply to: YeahYea4
That's why I believe that China would annex North Korea before letting it fall to South Korea. There are is an enormous
supply of laborers in North Korea that would be great for manufacturing, infrastructure building, and farming. While I think the people would be happier under South Korean control, they'd still be better off under China than where they are now.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Seriously man... they're crazy with those tunnels!

My dad used to tell me about training exercises he had in the Air Force... in the event that NK invaded using those crazy tunnel systems.
Apparently, they still find them every now and again.


Blew my mind when I learned about those big enough for tanks!!

originally posted by: fleabit
While I don't think China or any other country will come to NKs aid if they start a war, I do think they will come to their defense if war is declared on them. Thus the stalemate, and the continued aggressive language and tactics of NK trying to provoke SK into an attack.

That depends on US involvement I think. As long as its mostly SK vs NK I honestly dont think anyone will come NK aid. Because there's really no point. NK cannot win this war. If they launch nukes at SK or US, their country is forfeit. Dont see China coming their aid then. In fact its more likely that China choose to invade. Which would probably be bad for everyone.

so 10 minutes ago, the war started? Any confirmation ?

I think that NK is leveraging concessions from China, food/medicine/supplies/ the stuff that the society requires but is denied because of the constant readiness for immediate combat... the NK meglomanic thinks he is the antiwestern pitbull & the communists all over the world owe him & NK tribute

a reply to: kloejen

I think SK has until Saturday 5am EST to respond.

...unless there's been an update?

a reply to: bojimbo

Yeah, I heard until 4 am EST.

9 1/2 hours from now I do believe.

a reply to: Darkblade71

It's 0430 EST tomorrow when the deadline is.