Stopped by a cop? Act like an ass. After all, it's your "right".

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: ladyinwaiting
Resisting Arrest doesn't merit a death sentence.

You are absolutely correct. And there is a real problem with SOME in the law enforcement business.
Sadly, most ATS'ers SUCK at math. They can't run the numbers of how many traffic stops there are daily, and how many bad cop stories we get daily. I'd wager it's about like getting bit by a shark in NC oceans. It does happen, and sucks to be the guy with the shark attached to your thy, but knowing that tens of thousands of others didn't get bit never factors in.

These people should play the lottery. People win all the time.

I absolutely agree with everything you said here as well. Dog bites man, we don't hear about it. Man bites dog, it's news. Same principle.

originally posted by: network dude
These replies are about what I expected. Show a video of a cop who acted poorly, and think, somehow that makes it true that ALL cops are this way, so treat them as such.

You don't have to believe me on this. Hell, I am just some random dude on the internet. But out there, in real life, if you get the opportunity to try this tiny little experiment, give it a shot. In the spirit of science. Just try to be nice and respectful once. See if that changes the tone of your encounter any at all.

Again, if you try to put yourself in the position of a cop, it does help to understand just a little.

OR....naw, this would be way to hard. never mind. ( I was thinking how some keyboard warriors could step up, become cops, and root out the bad ones, and become the true law enforcement professionals we all need, but then I remembered how tiny the keyboard warriors gonads really are, my mistake)

What happens to good cops when bad cops are present?

Good cops get canned, and only the bad cops Can stick around because all the bad cops stick together.

Nice fantasy though.

I have known many good cops, I have seen several get railroaded as I explained above.

There is no current path to the end you describe.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: Bedlam

Why can't DARPA hurry up with RoboCop?

It would end up like ED209.

It's a complex problem. But one that could be solved with application of proper negative feedback. That's been stopped by inherent conflicts of interest. Cell phones are forcing the prosecutor's and IA's hand, occasionally, which is a start, but what really needs to happen is total oversight by an outside agency that isn't tied to local politics, or afraid of the police union, or that they won't be re-elected if they stomp on a few sacred police cows.

If you KNEW that the guy in the car you are about to tune up COULD end your career in the next 30 seconds if you start screaming "I WILL SHOOT YOU IN THE HEAD", you'd be a lot more careful. If you KNEW your partner was screwing up, and you could stop it, and you don't, THEN the guy you stopped turns out to be oversight and decertifies you both, you would be a lot more willing to stop your partner's misbehavior next time.

If your every encounter with the public could mean the end of your career, or a fine that comes out of YOUR pocket, then you would be a lot less of a jackass. The "bad cops" would be dealt with, and rendered unemployable. And the good cops would be well motivated to stop anyone going over the line.

It's all back to Lord Acton. Power tends to corrupt. Power with limited accountability will do that more quickly. Turn up the accountability, the problem will tend to correct itself.

a reply to: Bedlam

So why don't we have third party, private-sector monitoring of police?

Have private company #1 distribute and maintain body/dash cams.

Have private company #2 collect data every night from them. If they are tampered with in any way, or cameras turned off -- the cop is fired, no questions.

Have private company #3 conduct regular audits of both companies #1 and #2, and company #2 audit company #3.

Make any logical sense, or just to me?

Edit: and all company records would be made public at all times...

a reply to: network dude

So basically you're saying submit to the will of the authoritarian cop with daddy issues and an axe to grind (bigot or otherwise) or you deserve to be unfairly detained or arrested by that cop, assaulted by that cop, or possibly even shot dead by that cop?

Here's a good idea...

How about cops just do their damned jobs, and understand that they are not all-powerful beings with the right to become a judge, jury and executioner as they see fit? How about cops show a level of professionalism that goes above and beyond any ranting they may encounter? How about a cop just works out that they are in the wrong, the person they have stopped knows their rights, and treat them according to the law?

You can be an asshole, that's your right.
Unless of course you want to start claiming what should and shouldn't be "allowed" when encountering a police officer?
Surely that then steps over the boundaries of freedom of opinion and speech?

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
Cops see people at their worst, be that ill, drunk, scared, annoyed, or what have you. And as professionals should be trained to handle and de-escalate, not escalate situations. No excuses.

That seems to be the root of the problem.

They take it up a notch not down.

They escalate things, when all they had to do was let this douche vent for a second.

But that is too much to ask, they have "authoritie!!".

Let anyone else do half what they do regularlly, it would be multiple felonies, and hospitalization minimum, maybe even death
They get "administrative leave", meaning not working and still getting paid, like that is even a punishment.

Most folks would do anything for extra vacation time, oh wait, now I get it.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: Bedlam

So why don't we have third party, private-sector monitoring of police?

Move all certification to the Federal level, and put it in control of a bureau that's incentivized to put cops on the street.

You might not be able to compel a prosecutor to prosecute, but that cop'll never work again.

Oh, and put this group in control of their "sharing program". Any proceeds from criminal forfeiture goes to the Feds, and if your particular district has a really bad record, you get no bonus funding. So NOPD would have to consider if they want to keep their current behavior, or get new cars or a raise this year.

originally posted by: Rocker2013

How about cops just do their damned jobs, and understand that they are not all-powerful beings with the right to become a judge, jury and executioner as they see fit? How about cops show a level of professionalism that goes above and beyond any ranting they may encounter? How about a cop just works out that they are in the wrong, the person they have stopped knows their rights, and treat them according to the law?

How are we going to force them to behave is what I want to know. My idea is to start installing multiple hidden live streaming cameras in our cars and set up a network where when you're pulled over you push a button and your cameras start streaming and people in your network get an alert on their phone to start watching.

a reply to: network dude

I've been pulled over before and actually feared for my life. I made no threatening moves and was polite to the officers.

Video should be uploaded in real time or close to it to repository out of the LE hands.

Much like radio has gone encrypted because 'criminals will use it against police', the same idea will be pushed if police don't control the video. If the public was monitoring, maybe some of the BS would be checked.

We will need to rely on the public at large to keep the truth.

a reply to: network dude

the reason i wouldn't be that cop: because the majority of my job is as a revenue generator.

were it a job where i could go after bad guys, instead of going after people the state thinks they can milk money from, i might be willing to do it.

I know a few cops and a ton of correctional officers. I've just never figured out how they can look at themselves in the mirror after being paid to enforce tyranny.

I've always lived by the same code of conduct I learned as a child. Treat others as you wish to be treated. Now if we could get police officers to extend that same courtesy.

I've seen officers deal with aggressive idiots in a respectful manner. And I've seen civilians try to deal with officers who seem to wake up and think good police work is being an aggressive bully to everyone. Decorum is a two way street that both sides violate.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

the reason i wouldn't be that cop: because the majority of my job is as a revenue generator.

were it a job where i could go after bad guys, instead of going after people the state thinks they can milk money from, i might be willing to do it.

That's the problem, right there. Most cops sign up to do good and get the bad guys, but they get assigned to traffic duty, so psychologically, the average person becomes the "bad guy", in the cops minds.

a reply to: windword

I don't blame the individuals in the least. Each person is always judged on their own merit. That said...i avoid the police mostly because i see no real benefit beyond the required interaction.

But i also employ them off duty, and have had to get to know them all quite a bit.

a reply to: network dude

How do them boots taste?

Those who enforce the laws which are meant to protect the elite DO NOT deserve one ounce of respect. Once you pick up that badge and put on that uniform you agreed to be a corporate thug.

If you don't like being treated rudely for being a corporate thug that steals from the poor and gives to the rich, take a good long look in the mirror and realize who you work for and what the end game is then find a new line of work where you don't impose corporate will on the civilian population while constantly violating their rights.

I'm sick of all those people who adore the constitution but are unaware that it no longer exists. Constitutional rights are an illusion.

Police are the enemy.

I purposely give the police a hard time (within my rights of course) every single time now because I used to be nice (all the time) and all that got me was beaten and pepper sprayed.

I'm tired of getting pulled over for no reason.

LOL @ your copy pity thread.

a reply to: network dude

I adopted two cardinal rules when dealing with the police many years ago.

Rule 1: "The king's men don't have to abide by the king's rules."

Rule 2: Everything is "always" the victim's fault.

I am also a strong believer in Karma, so what goes around has a way of coming back around.

originally posted by: Bone75
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

I'd rather be alive than right.

Wow...

That's part of the whole problem...this enslavement that people such as yourself embrace is quite frightening. Have you ever heard of Stockholm Syndrome? If not, look it up.

Sounds like many of you have developed a strong case of it.

I'm tired of seeing people say that the victim "wouldn't have got shot if they only listened to the officer" as if it justified the unjustified shooting.

**smashes head against brick wall**

originally posted by: [post=19625690]johnwick[/post
Um, by law, you know, the one you swore to uphold, he doesn't have to answer any questions ever period, you know, the 5th amendment, the right to remain silent.

Ummm, you most certainly have the right to not speak to the officer, but that's not governed by the 5th Amendment, nor is it governed by the Miranda Warning (that only has to be recited to a suspect once they're arrested on suspicion of a crime).

The right to refrain from answering questions by a law enforcement officer actually can create many more problems for the person pulled over than just answering the simple questions and remaining respectful/cordial/calm.

I found this article in Car and Driver to have a conclusion similar to my own philosophy:

Still, if a motorist opts for the stonewall technique, Baxter similarly fears an unhappy outcome. “The cop does have the option of making the driver get out of the car and patting them down for weapons,” he pointed out. “And in many states where traffic violations are ‘criminal,’ he can arrest him for running a stop sign, search his car, and haul the driver off in cuffs.” Things can go bad, fast.

So what have we learned? Well, the law is as squishy and malleable as an octopus wrestling a jellyfish. All I know is:

1. Yes, you can remain silent during any roadside traffic stop.

2. The only reason for doing so is that the jogger you struck a block ago is still wedged in your grille and the pint of Smirnoff you’re holding in your hand has demolished your ability to count backward from 10.

Of course, I have enough knowledge of the law to know when something I say may lead to suspicion of something else--being educated about how (and why) to converse with LEOs is about 90% of the battle. I prefer to ease their mind and keep things cordial--maybe that's just me.

a reply to: SlapMonkey
It is good to remember not to say too much though. Respectful speech including 'sir', 'Maam', 'Officer', Trooper when you address them is a nice touch.
But keep your answers short, using just the words yes or no when possible.

originally posted by: real_one

I'm tired of seeing people say that the victim "wouldn't have got shot if they only listened to the officer" as if it justified the unjustified shooting.

I can't recall ever seeing a single case posted on this site where someone was shot for simply being an asshole. You're trying to blend 2 separate issues here bud.