Maine Just Put Welfare Leeches In Their Place

originally posted by: Nyiah
As beautiful as the state is renowned for being, they were quite clear that there isn't much there for work.

Right, which is why the government is having so much trouble coming up with the funds to continue to pay out welfare at the rate it's been doing. Not sure why this simple concept is lost on so many people on ATS.

As much as she's not exactly my favorite historical figure, Margaret Thatcher said it well:

"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."

a reply to: JRCrowley

So you actually believe there is not enough money to go round ?

I was on SNAP benefits for about 4 months. In Colorado you have to participate in a 3 hour class and show proof that you are actively looking for work, as well as volunteer for a certain amount per month if you have no dependents and are not elderly or disabled. This is nothing new.

The problem that I witnessed, and as someone who is a leftist was my worst fear, were those manipulating those rules for their own gain. The girls in their early 20's claiming they were exempt even though their parents had custody of their children. The supposed homeless that claimed disability while having an apartment and no real ailment. And before anyone says anything, a majority of these people were white.

No matter what restrictions we put on this, there are always liars and cheats that ruin it for those that really need a hand up. My 4 months allowed me to become stable enough to get a place to live and start saving money to improve my situation beyond the help. That is what it is for. More restrictions aren't going to fix things though. Enforcing policies already in place and providing the resources for those charged with that is what should be done.

originally posted by: jellyrev
Why post if one does not know the whole story?
able bodied people with no dependents between 18-49

I think it is kind of ironic, This law creates a sort of mini socialism. To get the SNAP one just has to do some work, any work will do. Just contribute to society in some way and your equal cut of the pie.

I see people are crying that oh maybe they do not have a car and live in the country, thus they cannot get to a place to volunteer. If this is true how are these people doing anything? They just sit at home all day, everyday? How do they go to the bank, the store, etc etc etc. Either they have a car or someone is helping them with a ride.

Lastly be quiet about corporate welfare and trying to compare apples to rotten oranges, almost no one here is a fan of it. Screaming to the choir.

Great point. I was thinking the same thing. And it reminded me of an article I read just 2 days ago about China.

Read this if you want a cold splash of water in your face about how much sacrifice the Chinese make to get to work.

For the lazy, I'll post the highlights. I, for one, am sick and tired of the whining and excuses some Americans give for not being able to work. It's downright shameful and disgusting. And if you take into account how hard the Chinese are working and the sacrifices they are taking to get jobs and take home an honest paycheck, you will better understand why China is setting itself to beat the living daylights out of the USA.

NO EXCUSES AMERICA. Get off your asses and take some responsibility.

YANJIAO, China — Every morning at 5:30, Liu Desheng joins a dozen retirees waiting for the express bus to central Beijing from this small city in Hebei Province. They stand at the front of the line but never board, instead waiting as bus after bus pulls up, each picking up 50 people from the ever-lengthening line behind the retirees. Around 6:30, their adult children arrive. The line, now snaking down the street, has become an hourlong wait. People cut in, and a shoving match breaks out. But the retirees have saved their children this ordeal. When the next bus pulls up, the young adults take their parents’ places at the head of the line and board first, settling into coveted seats for a 25-mile ride that can take up to three hours.

www.nytimes.com...

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

And the question was why they use the pictured they used if it doesn't accurately portray the state?

a reply to: Sremmos80

For the same reason Buster made the comments he made. To twist public opinion to match what they want it to match rather than the facts. I don't know that, but it would be my guess.

I think it is unfortunate that Maine is doing this. As it has been said there will always be people who find loopholes in the system to continue leeching. Many years ago when I had to go on assistance, I found a job a short time afterward. I still needed help until I received my first check. When I told my caseworker I had found a job, and that I needed help with childcare - at the time there were many programs for help with childcare for those that earn under a certain amount of money.

I was told that it would not be wise to take the job. I needed to go to a week long orientation on receiving assistance, and another mandatory 2 day session regarding receiving childcare benefits, and yet another class on receiving food stamps. I wanted to work, yet the welfare office told me not to accept the job - a very good paying one at that, in order to take classes on how to remain on welfare. I believe that the whole system is broken. I was very fortunate, I had family to help out, and my friend's mother watched my son so that I could accept the job. I was able to break free of the assistance trap. I often wonder what would have happened if I was not lucky enough to have outside help.

I find it ridiculous that these blocks hinder those that really want to get out. I understand the classes may be beneficial for some, but there should have been some concessions in situations like mine. I had found work, so forcing me to take 1-2 weeks out to take classes on how to find a job when I had already found a job just seem really bizarre to me. It is almost as if they want to keep people with their hands out.

I personally believe they need to take care of corporate handouts, all of the fraud that is taking place at the higher levels, and work on bringing jobs back here so people can go out and support themselves before they concern themselves with what they call "leeches". Now if there were enough good paying jobs to go around and there were people who refused to find work, that would be the time to implement this sort of program to weed out those who do not want to go out and get a job or support themselves.

originally posted by: JRCrowley
For the lazy, I'll post the highlights. I, for one, am sick and tired of the whining and excuses some Americans give for not being able to work. It's downright shameful and disgusting. And if you take into account how hard the Chinese are working and the sacrifices they are taking to get jobs and take home an honest paycheck, you will better understand why China is setting itself to beat the living daylights out of the USA.

NO EXCUSES AMERICA. Get off your asses and take some responsibility.

Family units actually work together in China. In the US they don't. In fact, most Americans go out of their way to mock the things the Chinese do, like parents sitting down with their college students and helping them study for tests. This is true of Asians in general actually. In the US the family structure is considerably different, even among those that have a family that lives together, homework is usually done in seclusion and students are not pushed.

In China, your parents care for you when you're young, and you care for them when they're old. In the US daycare cares for you when you're young, and a nursing home cares for your parents when they're old.

a reply to: Wolfenz

Heya, Wolfenz ..

your post seems to contain a probably valuable opinion but I gave up reading it - it was very difficult for me to focus on the message instead of on the makeup of the post. Way to many Capitals and weird punctuation. I even found myself thinking that you somewhat clumsely tried to convey a code / hidden message ..

originally posted by: Aazadan
In China, your parents care for you when you're young, and you care for them when they're old. In the US daycare cares for you when you're young, and a nursing home cares for your parents when they're old.

The Western world had roughly the same system as China has today - up to roughly the 1960s. We had no social security (or a very basic provision), families were the 'cornerstone of society'. Mothers always stayed at home to take care of the children, the man always went to work and granny and grandpa used to live in a little room somewhere in the house of one of their children. This system worked quite well for men: the wife took care of preparation of breakfast, made him his lunchbox, so he had all the time of the world to go to work, sit in pubs after work and when he came home, he fully expected his wife to have his meal ready for him, he got handed over his pipe, paper and slippers so he could rest after his "long hard day of work" while she continued her chores. Often she worked 12 hours or more each day, while he was treated as a prince - and expected to be, as he, after all, was "the man of the house"

Thank goodness we changed at least some of that in the 1960s...

Though I'm all for families and mutual aid within families - and actually, know a lot of families that help each other whenever they can - you should never be forced to rely on them. After all you can't choose your family, you're simply born into it. If you are one of the millions of people that can't get along with their kin, you're quite stuck between a rock and a hard place, unless there is a more generic solution at hand.

originally posted by: jimmyx
the wealthy want as many people as possible in poverty.....jesus, this has been going on for a while now.....just look at the income disparity, and where 80% of all income has gone to in the last 40 odd years.....they want to cut benefits, cut your wages, cut your hours, they want to do away with social security and make it a 401k program, they want to take away Medicare and Medicaid, or at the least, reduce both drastically...and....the wealthy still want MORE TAX BREAKS!!!...are you kidding me?...and the republicans here on ATS think that's just fine, why do I say that, because they support republican politicians that want to do all of this.

where are the republicans on ATS that would consider cutting the interest on federal student loans. it was 4%...now it's 8%
where are the republicans on ATS that would add billions to our highway and bridge, so we don't have people dying from collapses. maybe if a republican congressmen's children died from a collapse, that would be the only way.

And your point is...what? This is how life works. Look anywhere at any society of humans, animals, plants, planets...that which excels in it's own little genre of the life cycle dominates and sometimes eliminates that which fails. The strong survive and the weak perish. The purpose of that process is to keep the healthy, strong and smart alive while killing off the sick, weak and dumb. The species (when talking about life) becomes better.

Cold hard facts. Now...do you want to change that? Change the game so it is more fair? I'm all for that...SERIOUSLY!!! Here is how you do it. Eliminate money as the dominant characteristic of how we are judged. Eliminate work and jobs that are for the purpose of making that money and change that. Become a society of (for example) bartering. You get up in the morning, find out who needs work done that you are good at doing and you perform that task. In exchange, the person you perform that task for provides you with something you need. Food, water, housing or another task is done for you. It is really simple and this system does work.

However...now what you have done is taken away money and wealth as the power center and replaced it with physical strength and technical knowledge. Yes...there will always be something that will be the dominant characteristic of a society. You will change who is in power and who are the 1%...but there will still be a 1%. There will always be a group that excels in the dominant characteristic or need of a society and they will always be at the top...and others will be at the bottom.

Sorry folks...that is life. That is WHAT it is. There will always be predators and prey. Unless...you make everyone equal. Keep money (just for example) as the dominant characteristic. We all pay everything we make into a fund and then evenly distribute the money to everyone in the country or world. Of course this would have to be based upon the cost of living in the area and a bunch of other stuff...but it can be done. Not really a big deal to accomplish this.

However...I can then decide to sit on my fat ass and watch TV all day...everyday...forever. And I will still collect money from all those hard workers out there. Many more people may do the same, or decide they are artists (but actually suck) and paint all day. You see...you can't win with the goal you have in mind. It is wrong and unfair to steal money or whatever from ANYONE. Doesn't matter if they are the hated group of the day...it is wrong. It is also wrong to leach off another person unless that other person DECIDES to allow you. And there will always be those who won't want you to take from them.

Bottom line...this is the way life is. The scale is high on one side and low on the other. You can adjust the scale anyway you wish, but the total is always the same. Something always has to give. And...that is the way it is meant to be.

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: mOjOm

They are all a waste huh??? Why don't you elaborate on that a bit because that is a pretty broad statement with zero support

The American republic has endured for well over two centuries, but over the past 50 years, the apparatus of American governance has undergone a radical transformation. In some basic respects—its scale, its preoccupations, even many of its purposes—the U.S. government today would be scarcely recognizable to Franklin D. Roosevelt, much less to Abraham Lincoln or Thomas Jefferson.

In 2010 alone, government at all levels oversaw a transfer of over $2.2 trillion in money, goods and services. The burden of these entitlements came to slightly more than $7,200 for every person in America. Scaled against a notional family of four, the average entitlements burden for that year alone approached $29,000.

The Entitlement State.

It’s been 50 years now since the federal government launched its “War on Poverty.” But the numbers just released by the Census Bureau suggest we’re in a losing battle.

We’ve Spent $22 Trillion on War on Poverty. What Have We Achieved?

50 years.

$22 Trillion spent on it.

More people are poor, more dependent on government programs than EVER in this nations history.

After 50 YEARS, TRILLIONS spent. WHAT THE HELL DO WE HAVE TO SHOW FOR IT ?

The current debt @ $18 TRILLION.

Current federal spending is over $2.2 trillion dollars just on social programs, that's not even counting food stamps.

That's not counting student loans debt since the government take over that is over $ 1 trillion alone.

US unfunded liabilities close to $100 TRILLION. That's the money 'owed' to those programs that there is no way in hell that can ever be paid.

That good enough?

What has been going on sure and snip isn't 'moral'.

Rob from the haves so the 'poor' go out, and buy more stuff.

THAT IS IMMORAL.

*The gist*


"Who's to blame for the problems, the rich or the poor?...
To find out let's go to our expert correspondent on Wall Street for a completely unbiased view."



Using WSJ to prrove a rich man's argument.



I got a counter to that...

What's the most being spent on the most well off large family on welfare...

Is it the family of 6 (2point 4children) receiving roughly 20k a year (being generous)...

Or is it in fact the tribe of Israel who receive $3billion dollars a year, minimum?



No let's blame the have nots, it's not like funding the haves is the real problem.

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKEThe strong survive and the weak perish. The purpose of that process is to keep the healthy, strong and smart alive while killing off the sick, weak and dumb. The species (when talking about life) becomes better.

Did you ever read Kropotkin?

A soon as we study animals — not in laboratories and museums only, but in the forest and prairie, in the steppe and in the mountains — we at once perceive that though there is an immense amount of warfare and extermination going on amidst various species, and especially amidst various classes of animals, there is, at the same time, as much, or perhaps even more, of mutual support, mutual aid, and mutual defence amidst animals belonging to the same species or, at least, to the same society. Sociability is as much a law of nature as mutual struggle. Of course it would be extremely difficult to estimate, however roughly, the relative numerical importance of both these series of facts. But if we resort to an indirect test, and ask Nature: "Who are the fittest: those who are continually at war with each other, or those who support one another?" we at once see that those animals which acquire habits of mutual aid are undoubtedly the fittest. They have more chances to survive, and they attain, in their respective classes, the highest development and bodily organization. If the numberless facts which can be brought forward to support this view are taken into account, we may safely say that mutual aid is as much a law of animal life as mutual struggle; but that as a factor of evolution, it most probably has a far greater importance, inasmuch as it favors the development of such habits and characters as insure the maintenance and further development of the species, together with the greatest amount of welfare and enjoyment of life for the individual, with the least waste of energy.

"Mutual Aid as a Factor in Evolution"

originally posted by: ForteanOrg

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKEThe strong survive and the weak perish. The purpose of that process is to keep the healthy, strong and smart alive while killing off the sick, weak and dumb. The species (when talking about life) becomes better.

Did you ever read Kropotkin?

A soon as we study animals — not in laboratories and museums only, but in the forest and prairie, in the steppe and in the mountains — we at once perceive that though there is an immense amount of warfare and extermination going on amidst various species, and especially amidst various classes of animals, there is, at the same time, as much, or perhaps even more, of mutual support, mutual aid, and mutual defence amidst animals belonging to the same species or, at least, to the same society. Sociability is as much a law of nature as mutual struggle. Of course it would be extremely difficult to estimate, however roughly, the relative numerical importance of both these series of facts. But if we resort to an indirect test, and ask Nature: "Who are the fittest: those who are continually at war with each other, or those who support one another?" we at once see that those animals which acquire habits of mutual aid are undoubtedly the fittest. They have more chances to survive, and they attain, in their respective classes, the highest development and bodily organization. If the numberless facts which can be brought forward to support this view are taken into account, we may safely say that mutual aid is as much a law of animal life as mutual struggle; but that as a factor of evolution, it most probably has a far greater importance, inasmuch as it favors the development of such habits and characters as insure the maintenance and further development of the species, together with the greatest amount of welfare and enjoyment of life for the individual, with the least waste of energy.

"Mutual Aid as a Factor in Evolution"

Yes...among the different groups or prides of animals, that is correct. But we are attempting to be a pride. And within the pride there are those who eat more, eat first and lead the group. The 1%. And while they are in power, they are respected even though they get more for their efforts and strength. They aren't hated, targeted and threatened with losing their food.

originally posted by: HUMBLEONE
Maine is mostly white people. Curious why your source shows a photo that shows a bunch of black people and right under a title calling them "welfare leeches"?

It's all part of the plan to create the "black ppl = welfare rats" mindshare into the general populace.

a reply to: trollz

I have to agree with there decision considering any able bodied adult that cannot even be bothered to attend what amounts to the equivalent of only one days mandatory work or training over the period of a month should not be in receipt of any benefit.

Over here in the U.K simple non attendance regarding an interview is enough to get your benefit suspended for between 3-6 months.

Divide and conquer. It is amazing to me how little people realize they are being played. Do you think the people who run things really care about the puny amount this big rich country is spending on food stamps? The amount of fraud in these programs is pretty minimal. But it sure helps the ones at the top to have the ones with very little power to direct their anger at the ones with ever less power, rather than spend time thinking about how and why everything they’ve had is slipping away.

We no longer have community. We have everyone out for themselves. Individualism. personal achievement. Or as some like to say dog eat dog. If you like dog.

I’ve never been on food assistance, or as it should more accurately be called, food assurance. But as I understand, it is not so easily accomplished. Long waits in long lines. All sorts of proofs of income and status. For two hundred dollars worth of food a month, it seems like quite an effort. We all want to believe, “ it’s only the leeches and cheaters on those programs, and I ain’t no leach or cheater so I won’t have to worry about having something to eat.”.

Oh and, the likely reason all those people dropped out of the program is because they are working two or three jobs and have no time for volunteer work. Being unemployed is not a requirement for food assistance. Being poor is.

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

The species most close to us are the gorilla's. Gorilla troops live according to a very elementary principle, one that would serve us well: "take just what you need, give all that you can". And that goes for all in the troop, from leader to newborn.

A silverback (the oldest, strongest male in the troop, their leader) is in fact a very gentle animal. He takes care of the troops orphans and protects his troop. Indeed, he gets more food - but he needs it, to maintain his strength. And he will use that physical strength to protect his troop. Always. Also, he does not get thousands of times the amount of food the weakest gets; he simply gets the first choice and perhaps at best twice as much as the weakest. After all, he can't eat more anyway, it's a physical impossibility.

Now, if our society would be organised like that, I'd not be complaining. If a firefighter, doctor or policeman earned twice or three times as much as the poorest member of our society, I'd be content. But it is not so: our so called "leaders" aren't actually leaders, they are mostly buzzards that prey on us.

They "earn" thousands times as much as our poorest, in fact they earn so much they CREATE a class of poor, hard working people. And contribute almost nothing in return. And if their great leadership fails, they come whining and say they're too big to fail.

Not very natural at all.

originally posted by: ForteanOrg
a reply to: Wolfenz

Heya, Wolfenz ..

your post seems to contain a probably valuable opinion but I gave up reading it - it was very difficult for me to focus on the message instead of on the makeup of the post. Way to many Capitals and weird punctuation. I even found myself thinking that you somewhat clumsely tried to convey a code / hidden message ..

LOL yeah its a code and there is a reason for it, same reason Eric Arthur Blair ( research him ) writes the way he writes. a who's me and who's not me . PC / Human let alone its like speaking with hesitation a time elapsed second pause (..) hope it clears the reason up for you,

Anyhow , Would it be consider Slave Labor , if only just two states in the nation Maine & New York that has a workfare program for public assistance and for SNAP. is it constitutional ? would it be consider forced volunteering
of course your not actually forced but you will loose your SNAP if you don't comply to it

for what i see its only matter of time.. that a family with dependents, will have the same rule as a Single with no dependents, like New-York as i said before New York State is thinking of making people that Work and on the Payroll.. working for SNAP like doing community service for their Town / City or within the County the reside in.

a reply to: ForteanOrg



Ahh we are merely more like Ants Bees Wasps Termites then a Great Ape

Yeah we have behaviors of a Ape but the thinking and ability's like insects


I haven't seen Great Ape's Farm ( Crops & have Live Stock ) Build Structures , Actual Team Work, Battles, Command and Conquer, Colonize ... Etc..
in which Insects Do..