Despite lower crime rates, support for gun rights increases

a reply to: Vasa Croe

Asking the question in the first place speaks volumes of your level of understanding of guns.

..says the person who admits they didn't know the reason behind the question in the first place lol

And like you said, nothing can stop accidents or non-criminals from going crazy, but they don't all go on shooting sprees.

But the majority of countries with stricter gun laws dont have as many shooting sprees.

There is ONE common denominator though, with ALL violent acts...they are done by HUMANS. But hey, lets ignore the REAL problem and go after the guns......

Yes you are right, done by humans who would find it a lot harder to shoot up schools or theaters without easy access to guns. The gun facilitates the easy killing of innocent humans at a distance by anyone with enough force to pull a trigger.

A 9yr girl old girl would find it hard to accidentally beat an instructor to death with bat after losing control of it unlike the girl at White Hills, Ariz did with a fully automatic Uzi submachine gun.

originally posted by: swanne
a reply to: Vasa Croe

Some day man will need to learn how to live without crutches.

No. Someday humanity will learn not to meddle with nature. I just hope I'm long gone by that time.

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: PhoenixOD
a reply to: Vasa Croe

Dodging the question speaks volumes, but thats your right.

I think everyone should be afraid of guns and the people holding them. If you don't respect and fear the gun then accidents will happen. Isn't that what they teach you at fire arms safety classes? Not that that stops all accidents happening, or non criminals going crazy and having a shooting spree.

Asking the question in the first place speaks volumes of your level of understanding of guns.

Respect is much different than fear, and I never said I did not respect them. And no...they do not teach fear classes.

And like you said, nothing can stop accidents or non-criminals from going crazy, but they don't all go on shooting sprees. There is ONE common denominator though, with ALL violent acts...they are done by HUMANS. But hey, lets ignore the REAL problem and go after the guns......

Your fat, so lets take away your food(diet), not try to alter your mindset so you try to eat healthier......similar way of thinking.....which is why "diets" only work for a short period of time.

oh please. Every week we read stories in the Uk about gun crime or some shooting in the US. Please dont try to pretend that its rare or doesnt happen often. the fact is that you guys have am awful gun crime rate and gun accident rate and you STILL want more people armed. Its madness and only gun nutrs in the US cannot see this.

There is NO reason for anyone to own a 50 calibre gun or AR-15 or whetever you nuts love....

And yes cars kill more people, blah blah blah...but people need cars. no one needs and AR-15

Absolute madness. Just the other day i read about a kid shotting his younger brother dead with his dads gun..yes, it wass his dads fault. But people are human, they make mistakes...therefore having more guns would be idiotic no?

No no...clearly, your desire to own weapons overrides any kids right to live.

Food = Guns. GREAT analogy.

So now you're equating accidents into this? Ok....well then we CAN go back to cars. Even though people DO need them, ACCIDENTS still kill more than any gun ever has. An accident is what happens when something is not intentional.

But hey...why compare apples to apples when you are trying to prove a point right?

Ridiculous....if you feel so strongly about it then move over here and advocate. It was taken care of in the UK over a period of time and now the UK is one of the most, or the most violent country in Europe.....no guns needed.

Violent crimes actually rose in the UK after guns were banned....nice.

What I am talking about is crime, not accidents...if you are going to bring accidents into this debate then the scope is going to get a whole lot larger.

a reply to: 3danimator2014

Never had my family torn apart by gun violence. We know how to handle and respect weapons from a very young age .

A question for you....... when I still lived in the country , I lived so far out that the response time for police was over an hour . Are you saying it was not my right to protect my wife and myself during ,let's say , a home invasion ? Because people like you dislike weapon ownership I'm just to sit and wait over an hour for the police and just take what ever violence these criminals have to dish out ?

Believe me , break ins and home invasions are on the up swing in the country because of the long response times . These criminals from the city are coming across the state line and breaking into homes out in the country . They have it down to a science now , one in a car as a spotter and who targets the homes to be hit and two or three in a panel truck . Well , they had it down until last weekend when they invaded the wrong home and was met with a pistol barrel a few homes down from my mother .

originally posted by: PhoenixOD
a reply to: Vasa Croe

Asking the question in the first place speaks volumes of your level of understanding of guns.

..says the person who admits they didn't know the reason behind the question in the first place lol

And like you said, nothing can stop accidents or non-criminals from going crazy, but they don't all go on shooting sprees.

But the majority of countries with stricter gun laws dont have as many shooting sprees.

There is ONE common denominator though, with ALL violent acts...they are done by HUMANS. But hey, lets ignore the REAL problem and go after the guns......

Yes you are right, done by humans who would find it a lot harder to shoot up schools or theaters without easy access to guns. The gun facilitates the easy killing of innocent humans at a distance by anyone with enough force to pull a trigger.

A 9yr girl old girl would find it hard to accidentally beat an instructor to death with bat after losing control of it unlike the girl at White Hills, Ariz did with a fully automatic Uzi submachine gun.

Again....you are referencing stories that have no basis here. And the problem with your argument is that I don't have to justify anything to you. You, on the other hand, seem to feel the need to justify your feelings. My feelings are law.

Anywho...the majority of countries with stricter gun laws or bans ALSO have more violent crime. The reason for this? Because criminals know they can do whatever they want and the only thing they have to worry about at the most is a knife, but typically those with your mindset would seem to just curl into a ball and let anyone do what they want.

They 9 year old girl you referenced, again, has no part in this discussion. It was an accident. And one that I would never have let my older kids be near. Kids have no business around fully automatic weapons.

Your arguments are always the same, and none of them hold up to anything that amounts to a real argument. You obviously have no experience with firearms of any sort, nor have any education on them. The only place you can come from on your stance are what you read in the paper and online. No real world experience while posting an opinion is nice and all, but taken with a grain of salt.

a reply to: swanne

No one is born criminal.

Criminals are made.

I certainly hope everyone with a gun in your area stay angels.

Guns aren't made criminal either any more than cars. I agreee there are those that shouldn't drive, own guns, have kids, vote, whatever. How about we blanket policy everyone and take all that stuff away?

Oh, its just "guns".

a reply to: PhoenixOD

The gun facilitates the easy killing of innocent humans at a distance by anyone with enough force to pull a trigger.

So does a car have enough force to kill by simply stepping on the gas.

Oh wait, people have to point the car and push the accelerator.

Guess we can't eliminate car crime, either.

originally posted by: alienauthor
In Norway in 2011, where firearms are not allowed, a shooter killed 69 and injured 110. I am sure those people felt quite secure before someone decided a gun free zone was the safest place to go kill people. In the United States you will find that cities with the strongest gun laws have the highest murder rates. With the rise of terrorism, some countries may begin to think that our 2nd Amendment is a pretty good idea. a reply to: Vasa Croe

Wow...you can cite one fo the VERY few times this has happened outside of the US and South America...well done. That sure showed us Europeans!

What happened in Norway happens many times a year, every year in the US...whats your point?

United States did not look too bad in the 1940's when all those redneck boys that knew how to shoot kept England from speaking German, and yes they had to use guns.
a reply to: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: PhoenixOD
a reply to: Vasa Croe

Asking the question in the first place speaks volumes of your level of understanding of guns.

..says the person who admits they didn't know the reason behind the question in the first place lol

And like you said, nothing can stop accidents or non-criminals from going crazy, but they don't all go on shooting sprees.

But the majority of countries with stricter gun laws dont have as many shooting sprees.

There is ONE common denominator though, with ALL violent acts...they are done by HUMANS. But hey, lets ignore the REAL problem and go after the guns......

Yes you are right, done by humans who would find it a lot harder to shoot up schools or theaters without easy access to guns. The gun facilitates the easy killing of innocent humans at a distance by anyone with enough force to pull a trigger.

A 9yr girl old girl would find it hard to accidentally beat an instructor to death with bat after losing control of it unlike the girl at White Hills, Ariz did with a fully automatic Uzi submachine gun.

Again....you are referencing stories that have no basis here. And the problem with your argument is that I don't have to justify anything to you. You, on the other hand, seem to feel the need to justify your feelings. My feelings are law.

Anywho...the majority of countries with stricter gun laws or bans ALSO have more violent crime. The reason for this? Because criminals know they can do whatever they want and the only thing they have to worry about at the most is a knife, but typically those with your mindset would seem to just curl into a ball and let anyone do what they want.

They 9 year old girl you referenced, again, has no part in this discussion. It was an accident. And one that I would never have let my older kids be near. Kids have no business around fully automatic weapons.

Your arguments are always the same, and none of them hold up to anything that amounts to a real argument. You obviously have no experience with firearms of any sort, nor have any education on them. The only place you can come from on your stance are what you read in the paper and online. No real world experience while posting an opinion is nice and all, but taken with a grain of salt.

Its ALL totally relevant. You guys will keep having "accidents" and kids shooting their parents, little siblings, machine gunning their teacher./father by mistake while you still cling like animals to a passage in the constitution that has ZERO relevance in 2015.

I dont have to justify anythigbn to you either...certyainly not my belief that you gun nuts care more about your guns than dead kids/teens/adults.

Its quite sickening.

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: alienauthor
In Norway in 2011, where firearms are not allowed, a shooter killed 69 and injured 110. I am sure those people felt quite secure before someone decided a gun free zone was the safest place to go kill people. In the United States you will find that cities with the strongest gun laws have the highest murder rates. With the rise of terrorism, some countries may begin to think that our 2nd Amendment is a pretty good idea. a reply to: Vasa Croe

Wow...you can cite one fo the VERY few times this has happened outside of the US and South America...well done. That sure showed us Europeans!

What happened in Norway happens many times a year, every year in the US...whats your point?

No....what is happening is that murders happen everywhere. Here is a list of knife crime in the UK...

Source

That's a lot of stabbings.....25 pages worth. Guess what happened when guns were banned there.....stabbings went up...shocked? You shouldn't be since criminals will use whatever means they can. Guess who still uses guns in the UK? Criminals can get them....shocked? You shouldn't be, because law abiding citizens don't try to get illegal guns.

Homicides are everywhere in the world, and the US is nowhere near the top of the list for those. Violent crimes in general are much more common in other countries than in the US.

Anywho....law is law.....glad it is on my side.

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: PhoenixOD
a reply to: Vasa Croe

Asking the question in the first place speaks volumes of your level of understanding of guns.

..says the person who admits they didn't know the reason behind the question in the first place lol

And like you said, nothing can stop accidents or non-criminals from going crazy, but they don't all go on shooting sprees.

But the majority of countries with stricter gun laws dont have as many shooting sprees.

There is ONE common denominator though, with ALL violent acts...they are done by HUMANS. But hey, lets ignore the REAL problem and go after the guns......

Yes you are right, done by humans who would find it a lot harder to shoot up schools or theaters without easy access to guns. The gun facilitates the easy killing of innocent humans at a distance by anyone with enough force to pull a trigger.

A 9yr girl old girl would find it hard to accidentally beat an instructor to death with bat after losing control of it unlike the girl at White Hills, Ariz did with a fully automatic Uzi submachine gun.

Again....you are referencing stories that have no basis here. And the problem with your argument is that I don't have to justify anything to you. You, on the other hand, seem to feel the need to justify your feelings. My feelings are law.

Anywho...the majority of countries with stricter gun laws or bans ALSO have more violent crime. The reason for this? Because criminals know they can do whatever they want and the only thing they have to worry about at the most is a knife, but typically those with your mindset would seem to just curl into a ball and let anyone do what they want.

They 9 year old girl you referenced, again, has no part in this discussion. It was an accident. And one that I would never have let my older kids be near. Kids have no business around fully automatic weapons.

Your arguments are always the same, and none of them hold up to anything that amounts to a real argument. You obviously have no experience with firearms of any sort, nor have any education on them. The only place you can come from on your stance are what you read in the paper and online. No real world experience while posting an opinion is nice and all, but taken with a grain of salt.

Its ALL totally relevant. You guys will keep having "accidents" and kids shooting their parents, little siblings, machine gunning their teacher./father by mistake while you still cling like animals to a passage in the constitution that has ZERO relevance in 2015.

I dont have to justify anythigbn to you either...certyainly not my belief that you gun nuts care more about your guns than dead kids/teens/adults.

Its quite sickening.

Ok...enjoy your violent crime stats being higher than the US and all your stabbings. I will enjoy my guns.

Love that you believe everything you see on the news as being how we live here. Ever stop to think the news is really just there to sell a story and not report on real news? Mind = Blown right?

So I guess we should believe the UK is being taken over by violent muslims and they are banning anyone non-muslim from neighborhoods all over there right?

a reply to: intrptr

So does a car have enough force to kill by simply stepping on the gas.

Oh wait, people have to point the car and push the accelerator.

Guess we can't eliminate car crime, either.

Would be hard to do if you were so young your legs were not long enough to reach the pedals or didn't have access to key or didn't know how to operate a car or couldn't manage to drive it out the garage and far enough to get to anyone to kill. Yet children accidentally shoot people all the time. Smuggling a car into a theater and driving it around killing 12 and injuring another 58 would be slightly problematic also .etc, etc, etc.

it doesn't take a genius to work out that that's a seriously weak strawman argument lol.

originally posted by: PhoenixOD
a reply to: intrptr

So does a car have enough force to kill by simply stepping on the gas.

Oh wait, people have to point the car and push the accelerator.

Guess we can't eliminate car crime, either.

Would be hard to do if you were so young your legs were not long enough to reach the pedals or didn't have access to key or didn't know how to operate a car or couldn't manage to drive it out the garage and far enough to get to anyone to kill. Yet children accidentally shoot people all the time. Smuggling a car into a theater and driving it around killing 12 and injuring another 58 would be slightly problematic also .etc, etc, etc.

it doesn't take a genius to work out that that's a seriously weak strawman argument lol.

Plus...people need cars. No one other than a few (armed enforcement, farmers etc..) need guns.

But these points are lost on them

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: PhoenixOD
a reply to: Vasa Croe

Asking the question in the first place speaks volumes of your level of understanding of guns.

..says the person who admits they didn't know the reason behind the question in the first place lol

And like you said, nothing can stop accidents or non-criminals from going crazy, but they don't all go on shooting sprees.

But the majority of countries with stricter gun laws dont have as many shooting sprees.

There is ONE common denominator though, with ALL violent acts...they are done by HUMANS. But hey, lets ignore the REAL problem and go after the guns......

Yes you are right, done by humans who would find it a lot harder to shoot up schools or theaters without easy access to guns. The gun facilitates the easy killing of innocent humans at a distance by anyone with enough force to pull a trigger.

A 9yr girl old girl would find it hard to accidentally beat an instructor to death with bat after losing control of it unlike the girl at White Hills, Ariz did with a fully automatic Uzi submachine gun.

Again....you are referencing stories that have no basis here. And the problem with your argument is that I don't have to justify anything to you. You, on the other hand, seem to feel the need to justify your feelings. My feelings are law.

Anywho...the majority of countries with stricter gun laws or bans ALSO have more violent crime. The reason for this? Because criminals know they can do whatever they want and the only thing they have to worry about at the most is a knife, but typically those with your mindset would seem to just curl into a ball and let anyone do what they want.

They 9 year old girl you referenced, again, has no part in this discussion. It was an accident. And one that I would never have let my older kids be near. Kids have no business around fully automatic weapons.

Your arguments are always the same, and none of them hold up to anything that amounts to a real argument. You obviously have no experience with firearms of any sort, nor have any education on them. The only place you can come from on your stance are what you read in the paper and online. No real world experience while posting an opinion is nice and all, but taken with a grain of salt.

Its ALL totally relevant. You guys will keep having "accidents" and kids shooting their parents, little siblings, machine gunning their teacher./father by mistake while you still cling like animals to a passage in the constitution that has ZERO relevance in 2015.

I dont have to justify anythigbn to you either...certyainly not my belief that you gun nuts care more about your guns than dead kids/teens/adults.

Its quite sickening.

Ok...enjoy your violent crime stats being higher than the US and all your stabbings. I will enjoy my guns.

Love that you believe everything you see on the news as being how we live here. Ever stop to think the news is really just there to sell a story and not report on real news? Mind = Blown right?

So I guess we should believe the UK is being taken over by violent muslims and they are banning anyone non-muslim from neighborhoods all over there right?

oh, i guess the news papers and channels must have made up those stories...even hired lots of extras to make it look like it really happeend. wow.

You enjoy your guns, i know you will...and dont spare any thought for your fellow men and kids who are hurt by them every day...after all...its written on a stupid piece of paper. So it must be held as gospel.

originally posted by: alienauthor
United States did not look too bad in the 1940's when all those redneck boys that knew how to shoot kept England from speaking German, and yes they had to use guns.
a reply to: Vasa Croe

VERY clever comment. Well done.

originally posted by: PhoenixOD
a reply to: intrptr

So does a car have enough force to kill by simply stepping on the gas.

Oh wait, people have to point the car and push the accelerator.

Guess we can't eliminate car crime, either.

Would be hard to do if you were so young your legs were not long enough to reach the pedals or didn't have access to key or didn't know how to operate a car or couldn't manage to drive it out the garage and far enough to get to anyone to kill. Yet children accidentally shoot people all the time. Smuggling a car into a theater and driving it around killing 12 and injuring another 58 would be slightly problematic also .etc, etc, etc.

it doesn't take a genius to work out that that's a seriously weak strawman argument lol.

Ha...strawman is what you just pulled. You say "so young your legs are not long enough to reach pedals" then in the same argument talk about an adult male shooting people in a theater. You think he just had the weapons waiting at the theater, or did he have to drive from his house with them, out of the garage, to get there. The car is as much responsible as the gun for transporting the killer to the scene if we take your argument at face value.

I could safely say that a kid young enough not to reach pedals has the same ability in a car as they would a weapon. You think you can just grab a gun and it fires? Do you know anything about chambering a round, safety switches, loading a magazine, weight of trigger pull, etc? Nope....just as a kid that can't reach the pedals doesn't know how to drive yet shockingly this type of accident happens more often than you think. Even my own brother put my parents car in gear when he was 3, stood in the driver seat and rand into 2 cars.....all without pressing the pedals.

You anti gun nuts really try to push an analogy....unfortunately yours failed miserably.

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: PhoenixOD
a reply to: Vasa Croe

Asking the question in the first place speaks volumes of your level of understanding of guns.

..says the person who admits they didn't know the reason behind the question in the first place lol

And like you said, nothing can stop accidents or non-criminals from going crazy, but they don't all go on shooting sprees.

But the majority of countries with stricter gun laws dont have as many shooting sprees.

There is ONE common denominator though, with ALL violent acts...they are done by HUMANS. But hey, lets ignore the REAL problem and go after the guns......

Yes you are right, done by humans who would find it a lot harder to shoot up schools or theaters without easy access to guns. The gun facilitates the easy killing of innocent humans at a distance by anyone with enough force to pull a trigger.

A 9yr girl old girl would find it hard to accidentally beat an instructor to death with bat after losing control of it unlike the girl at White Hills, Ariz did with a fully automatic Uzi submachine gun.

Again....you are referencing stories that have no basis here. And the problem with your argument is that I don't have to justify anything to you. You, on the other hand, seem to feel the need to justify your feelings. My feelings are law.

Anywho...the majority of countries with stricter gun laws or bans ALSO have more violent crime. The reason for this? Because criminals know they can do whatever they want and the only thing they have to worry about at the most is a knife, but typically those with your mindset would seem to just curl into a ball and let anyone do what they want.

They 9 year old girl you referenced, again, has no part in this discussion. It was an accident. And one that I would never have let my older kids be near. Kids have no business around fully automatic weapons.

Your arguments are always the same, and none of them hold up to anything that amounts to a real argument. You obviously have no experience with firearms of any sort, nor have any education on them. The only place you can come from on your stance are what you read in the paper and online. No real world experience while posting an opinion is nice and all, but taken with a grain of salt.

Its ALL totally relevant. You guys will keep having "accidents" and kids shooting their parents, little siblings, machine gunning their teacher./father by mistake while you still cling like animals to a passage in the constitution that has ZERO relevance in 2015.

I dont have to justify anythigbn to you either...certyainly not my belief that you gun nuts care more about your guns than dead kids/teens/adults.

Its quite sickening.

Ok...enjoy your violent crime stats being higher than the US and all your stabbings. I will enjoy my guns.

Love that you believe everything you see on the news as being how we live here. Ever stop to think the news is really just there to sell a story and not report on real news? Mind = Blown right?

So I guess we should believe the UK is being taken over by violent muslims and they are banning anyone non-muslim from neighborhoods all over there right?

oh, i guess the news papers and channels must have made up those stories...even hired lots of extras to make it look like it really happeend. wow.

You enjoy your guns, i know you will...and dont spare any thought for your fellow men and kids who are hurt by them every day...after all...its written on a stupid piece of paper. So it must be held as gospel.

No...they run stories for their shock value to get hits on their site and more viewers on their station. News sells. Fact is that these are not that common, and killings in many other countries are FAR more common than in the US.

I will enjoy my guns and my "stupid piece of paper" that allows me more rights than you apparently have. And no, a common misconception is equating law with religion....this is not gospel....it is law.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

Ha...strawman is what you just pulled. You say "so young your legs are not long enough to reach pedals" then in the same argument talk about an adult male shooting people in a theater.

No i was directly addressing the point made which was

So does a car have enough force to kill by simply stepping on the gas.

Oh wait, people have to point the car and push the accelerator.

not unfairly comparing it to a dissimilar situation like the member i was replying to did.

originally posted by: swanne
a reply to: Vasa Croe

Is a nation filled with guns, a nation in which every citizens are in a mini-cold war with his neighbour ("At the first sign of trouble we'll shoot each other and ask questions later"), the true and ultimate goal of the Constitution?

I think not.

I am not in a "mini-cold war" with my neighbors , but i do have the right to protect myself and my property