Muslims threw Christians overboard during Med voyage

originally posted by: rockpaperhammock
a reply to: TruthxIsxInxThexMist

What I don't get is...how does anyone know anyone else's religion? Do you walk up to someone declaring your religion first thing....

There are plenty of cases where Muslims have required people to recite a statement or prayer indicating their adherence to Islam. If they fail, they kill them or force them to leave the area.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn

originally posted by: damwel
The Muslims probably got tired of hearing the Christians telling them they were going to Hell for not accepting Christ as their savior.

No the Muslims couldn't convert them and the quran says if they don't convert tax them if they can't pay the tax then kill them.

Can you please show me where in the Quran it says that?

A reply to: Boeing777

Just google it lazy

originally posted by: ChesterJohn

originally posted by: butcherguy
areply to: ChesterJohn

I had hoped that the but,but,but indicated my sarcasm.
I guess it didn't.
Sorry.

It did but some people need facts so as not to jump your sarcasm and run off about how evil Christians are.

Says the guy whose first post ran off with how evil Muslims were. Lol hypocrisy.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
A reply to: Boeing777

Just google it lazy

You make baseless claims and fail to provide any evidence to back it up yet I'm the lazy one?

This BBC documantary aired a couple of nights ago says it all. It's called Kill the Christians...............

www.bbc.co.uk...

a reply to: Boeing777

Quran teaches violence and oppression

Remember the hadiths interpret the Quran

Did anybody else try to stop this?

If not, why not.

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: rockpaperhammock
a reply to: TruthxIsxInxThexMist

What I don't get is...how does anyone know anyone else's religion? Do you walk up to someone declaring your religion first thing....

There are plenty of cases where Muslims have required people to recite a statement or prayer indicating their adherence to Islam. If they fail, they kill them or force them to leave the area.

haha wow I had never heard that...id probably fake like I was interested then go back and burn their church down later...i hate fanatics on either side.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

You still haven't answered my question. Providing a link listing some verses from the Quran followed by a large chunk of hadiths isn't what I asked. And btw, Quran and hadiths are two completely different things. One is preserved and holy, the other is not.

You posted the following in the first page.

No the Muslims couldn't convert them and the quran says if they don't convert tax them if they can't pay the tax then kill them.

So I'll ask one last time. Can you please show me where in the Quran it says that?

originally posted by: rockpaperhammock

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: rockpaperhammock
a reply to: TruthxIsxInxThexMist

What I don't get is...how does anyone know anyone else's religion? Do you walk up to someone declaring your religion first thing....

There are plenty of cases where Muslims have required people to recite a statement or prayer indicating their adherence to Islam. If they fail, they kill them or force them to leave the area.

haha wow I had never heard that...id probably fake like I was interested then go back and burn their church down later...i hate fanatics on either side.

Opposites attract. Islamic extremists attract right-wing nutcases and the normal people trying to get on with their lives get stuck in the middle and both sides generalize the other.

Didn't they just close this topic?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Also, blaming an entire group for the actions of a few is a sign of bigotry & ignorance. Individuals are responsible for their own actions.

No one blames all Christians when a self-identified Christian commits a crime in America. No one blames all Jews whenever some Israeli settlers commit "price tag attacks" on Christian churches & buildings. No one blames all Buddhists when Buddhist extremists attack the Rohingya. And no one blames all atheists for communist China's oppression of its religious groups like the Falun Gong. And no one should blame them because the individuals who commit the crimes are the only ones responsible for them. It's such common sense no one even thinks twice about it.

So why the exception for Islam? I think it's because some of you just hate Islam & want a reason to justify your bigotry. There are between 1.6 & 1.8 BILLION Muslims. So even if one million Muslims did this, it's still less than one tenth of one percent. How logical is it to blame more than one and a half billion people for the crimes of a small mob? That's just dumb.

And for the record, here's Webster's Dictionary's definition of "bigot":

a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc. : a bigoted person;
especially : a person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular group (such as a racial or religious group)

I think this definition fits this thread's tone.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Boeing777

Remember the hadiths interpret the Quran

Give me a break. Hadiths don't interpret the Quran, they are passed on sayings.

originally posted by: xuenchen
Did anybody else try to stop this?

If not, why not.

Better to watch than be thrown overboard with them.

The required recitation to prove their faith is called the Shahadah.
Link

originally posted by: Boeing777
a reply to: ChesterJohn

You still haven't answered my question. Providing a link listing some verses from the Quran followed by a large chunk of hadiths isn't what I asked. And btw, Quran and hadiths are two completely different things. One is preserved and holy, the other is not.

You posted the following in the first page.



No the Muslims couldn't convert them and the quran says if they don't convert tax them if they can't pay the tax then kill them.



So I'll ask one last time. Can you please show me where in the Quran it says that?

Here you go.

Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

And about killing the infidels, there's lots more of course.

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

Thanks for fielding that one.

It really gets tiresome to have to clarify something so important that it seems to merit no research at all to some people.

originally posted by: MichiganSwampBuck

originally posted by: Boeing777
a reply to: ChesterJohn

You still haven't answered my question. Providing a link listing some verses from the Quran followed by a large chunk of hadiths isn't what I asked. And btw, Quran and hadiths are two completely different things. One is preserved and holy, the other is not.

You posted the following in the first page.



No the Muslims couldn't convert them and the quran says if they don't convert tax them if they can't pay the tax then kill them.



So I'll ask one last time. Can you please show me where in the Quran it says that?

Here you go.

Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

Wow. Maybe you should actually read the entire passage instead of cherry picking lines from it. [I always quote the Pickthall translation because that's the one I read]
quran.com...

And about killing the infidels, there's lots more of course.

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

Once again, you should read the entire passage instead of cherry picking lines from it.
quran.com...
This is what it actually says:

(8:12) When thy Lord inspired the angels, (saying): I am with you. So make those who believe stand firm. I will throw fear into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Then smite the necks and smite of them each finger.

It's clearly describing the events that took place between the Prophet & his followers against his powerful clan, the Quraysh. It even says this directly at 8:19. But you'd have to actually keep reading it to know this.

(8:19) (O Qureysh!) If ye sought a judgment, now hath the judgment come unto you. And if ye cease (from persecuting the believers) it will be better for you, but if ye return (to the attack) We also shall return. And your host will avail you naught, however numerous it be, and (know) that Allah is with the believers (in His Guidance).

I'm guessing you didn't read my other thread on the basic Islamic denominations. But the Prophet's clan was the most powerful clan in the region, and they initially rejected him, fought him, and forced him & his followers into exile. But eventually they joined with the Prophet, with some being his companions who would become early Caliphs. The quote you chose is talking about the battles they fought against each other before joining the Prophet's side.

I don't mind people quoting the Qur'an. I actually prefer for people to read it But if you're going to do so, at least have the decency to read the entire passage to find out what it's talking about. Otherwise you'll end up taking things completely out of context & making it seem like you don't know what it's talking about.

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

Extremists nutcases who believe God revealed these verses specifically to them and use it to murder people love cherry picking verses and taking them out of context as much as you do.

Quran(8:12)

When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them [Quran 8:12]

EXPLANATION

These verses were revealed when the Muslims were in a bitter struggle with the pagans of Mecca who were persecuting them. Here the reference is to Battle of Badr when a Pagan army consisting of about a thousand soldiers was heading toward Madina to destroy the Musims. There was another trade caravan of the pagans, which also had 30 to 40 armed guards, and it was heading towards Mecca. Because the Muslim consisted of only 300 people with only two or three horses and 70 camels, it was suggested that the Muslims should launch an attack on this caravan and thus divert the attention of the pagans. The Muslims decided to confront the pagan army instead. In these passages, God is comforting the Muslims in that battle and encouraged those who were weak of heart that it is time to confront the enemy, otherwise, Muslims would be wiped out during that battle.

Quran(9:29)

قَاتِلُوا الَّذِينَ لَا يُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللَّهِ وَلَا بِالْيَوْمِ الْآخِرِ وَلَا يُحَرِّمُونَ مَا حَرَّمَ اللَّهُ وَرَسُولُهُ وَلَا يَدِينُونَ دِينَ الْحَقِّ مِنَ الَّذِينَ أُوتُوا الْكِتَابَ حَتَّىٰ يُعْطُوا الْجِزْيَةَ عَن يَدٍ وَهُمْ صَاغِرُونَ

Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not acknowledge the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture, until they give the tribute willingly while they are humbled.

Surah At-Tawba 9:29

On the surface, this appears to be an open-ended command to fight non-Muslims until they are conquered. However, a fundamental principle of Quranic exegesis (tafseer) is that the verses must be understood in the context in which they were revealed (asbab an-nuzul) and in conjunction with other verses delineating the rules of warfare.
عَنْ مُجَاهِدٍ قَاتِلُوا الَّذِينَ لا يُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللَّهِ وَلا بِالْيَوْمِ الآخِرِ… حِينَ أُمِرَ مُحَمَّدٌ وَأَصْحَابُهُ بِغَزْوَةِ تَبُوكَ

Mujahid reported concerning the verse, “Fight those who do not believe in Allah and the Last Day…” that it was revealed when Muhammad and his companions were commanded with the expedition of Tabuk.

Source: Tafseer At-Tabari 9:29

The expedition of Tabuk was preceded by the battle of Mu’tah which began when the emissary of the Prophet was assassinated while delivering a letter to a Roman ally.

Ibn Al-Qayyim writes:

وَكَانَ سَبَبُهَا أَنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ بَعَثَ الحارث بن عمير الأزدي أَحَدَ بَنِي لِهْبٍ بِكِتَابِهِ إِلَى الشَّامِ إِلَى مَلِكِ الرُّومِ أَوْ بُصْرَى فَعَرَضَ لَهُ شرحبيل بن عمرو الغساني فَأَوْثَقَهُ رِبَاطًا ثُمَّ قَدَّمَهُ فَضَرَبَ عُنُقَهُ وَلَمْ يُقْتَلْ لِرَسُولِ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ رَسُولٌ غَيْرُهُ فَاشْتَدَّ ذَلِكَ عَلَيْهِ حِينَ بَلَغَهُ الْخَبَرُ فَبَعَثَ الْبُعُوثَ

The cause of the battle was that the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, sent Harith ibn Umair Al-Azdi of the tribe of Lihb with his letter to Syria for the Roman king or Busra. He presented it to Sharhabeel ibn Amr Al-Ghassani and he bound him and struck his neck. Never had an ambassador of the Messenger of Allah been killed besides him. The Prophet was upset by that when news reached him and he dispatched an expedition.

Source: Zaad Al-Ma’ad 336

Safiur Rahman writes:

The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, had sent Al-Harith ibn Umair Al-Azdi on an errand to carry a letter to the ruler of Busra. On his way, he was intercepted by Sharhabeel ibn Amr Al-Ghassani, the governor of Al-Balqa and a close ally to Caesar, the Byzantine Emperor. Al-Harith was tied and beheaded by Al-Ghassani.

Source: The Sealed Nectar p. 245

This was the first act of Roman aggression that further led to the expedition of Tabuk concerning which the verse 9:29 was revealed. The verse describes the aggressors as those “who do not believe in Allah and the Last Day,” because they committed this act of treachery. Executing emissaries from other countries is a war crime that could never be committed by those who sincerely believe in God.

It's easy cherry picking.

originally posted by: damwel
The Muslims probably got tired of hearing the Christians telling them they were going to Hell for not accepting Christ as their savior.

Either that or one of the Christians drew a cartoon stick figure of which the Muslims took as an insult to Muhommad.