Tracers to mark a low magazine.. Who dun it?

I just gotta ask, do you live some where like Fallujah? Because unless you do or you're a cop, I don't see running a whole mag in a defensive scenario.
In most cases, only 2 rounds are fired and maybe 5 at most. Unless you're taking on a whole gang, or have a malfunction, I don't think you're going to have to worry about running dry. I have a 15 round mag, if I run out and the bad guy's not down, I am doing something seriously wrong. Even with a single stack, I better hit with the first 2 or I may not have to worry about running out. Or breathing.

165gr light powder round

Lol 4th July in 9mm!

165 ? You still talkin' 9mm?

a reply to: DAVID64

Ya. Its a 3 gun round. Super light recoil. All those double tap pro racing videos are 1 heavily modded guns and 2 light recoil ammo. I don't have reloading ability yet myself but a buddy could whip some up ez enough for me. They really to recoil very little but they still got a pretty good thud. Like 700-800 fps.

And supressing Fire is a very real thing in a concealed carry scenario. Police often empty an entire magazine to gain the upper hand if it's called for and safe to do so. Yes most situations are only a few shots and thatas that but I've seen video of an event that was ez 20+ shots fired at only 2 guys. Shooting through glass is another. I was taught to over shoot when glass or other barriers are in the way. Make sure to put wayyyy more lead on target then I would normally due to the weakened rounds.

I reckon that in a real close quarter shoot in a civilian defensive scenario you probably wouldn't even notice the tracers.

Like I said in a previous thread the average number of shots in this scenario is 2 and those who fire more usually just keep going until the weapon goes click instead of bang. This doesn't include police shootings which are quite different.

As an aside from a military point of view I used to load tracer at the bottom of my magazines. After a few real firefights I realised that it didn't really make a difference. Either the shoots were too close to let the tracer start burning or it was too bright and I was too pre-occupied to notice it.

These days I just load a mag full of tracer and pop it on for target infication as needed. I leave it as the back mag in my rearmost ammo pouch and have it facing the opposite way to the rest of the mags so I can ID it easily.

a reply to: mindseye1609

what in the hell kind of situation are you expecting that you need to be worrying about stacking tracers for your reloads? As a civilian, you are most likely going to fire however many rounds are in your mag at a distance about the length of a car. After that, one of you is most likely going to be running away or bleeding out.

Let's say you're in a worst case scenario: day at the mall (God knows why, just humor me) and there's an active shooter. It's not your job to locate, close with, and destroy. Your weapon is a means to get yourself out of Dodge and if that's not possible, then to protect yourself should the shooter find you. Yes, there are any number of stories of CCW owners stopping a threat, but the vast majority of those are home invasions and robbery attempts. I would point you to the shootings in Vegas last year or the year before: civilian decides to take on a shooter in a Walmart and gets popped by the guy's partner before he even engages.

I'm all for giving yourself an edge, but it sounds to me like you need to learn more about what you're likely to face as a civilian and worry less about what's "tacticool."

originally posted by: Shamrock6
It's not your job to locate, close with, and destroy.

Doing such a thing is very likely to get you mistaken for the active shooter by some other wannabe 'hero' or the police as well. You're spot on. Defensive carry is only for getting yourself to an exit.

originally posted by: mindseye1609
a reply to: DAVID64

Ya. Its a 3 gun round. Super light recoil. All those double tap pro racing videos are 1 heavily modded guns and 2 light recoil ammo. I don't have reloading ability yet myself but a buddy could whip some up ez enough for me. They really to recoil very little but they still got a pretty good thud. Like 700-800 fps.

And supressing Fire is a very real thing in a concealed carry scenario. Police often empty an entire magazine to gain the upper hand if it's called for and safe to do so. Yes most situations are only a few shots and thatas that but I've seen video of an event that was ez 20+ shots fired at only 2 guys. Shooting through glass is another. I was taught to over shoot when glass or other barriers are in the way. Make sure to put wayyyy more lead on target then I would normally due to the weakened rounds.

1) how suppressive is your lone handgun going to be?

2) why are you worried about suppressive fire when you have a handgun with what, 45 rounds?

3) who's going to be doing the flanking while you're doing the fixing in regards to "fix and flank?"

You use suppressive fire to get somebody's head down while somebody else is working to get in to an advantageous position. Not just because you've got 3 mags and reasons.

a reply to: Shamrock6

Any reference to tacticoool is being facetious.

And comepletely Untrue. Supressing fire can be utilized solo all day.. Not in a crowded area obviously, but if the situation arises you can dump most a mag from cover to get your target to take cover then you break cover and wait for him to do so and pow.... It's been utilized many many times.. An ex marine police officer got a whole buncha hell not long after ferguson cause he discharged 34 rounds in a fire fight and only 3 hit the target. The entire first mag was just to get the bad guy down who had the high ground.

To say that it's not feasible is just silly... If I was worried about feasible and the odds.... I probably wouldn't even carry.. I carry for those omg scenarios that are unthought of. The gabby Gifford scenario. The north Hollywood scenario. Charlie hebdo.

Basically if me and my family get the attention of some piece of shart I'm not going to count my life on some nonsense New York safe only has 5 rounds because it's all I need bullshart. If I'm in trouble.. I want a 50 round xproducts drum on a sig mpx 9mm... About as big and bad as you can get in a pistol that's not silly (they make .50 Beowulf AR pistols lol) and that's still going to be severely outgunned by just an ak47.

Like I said.. If I was playing the odds.. I probably wouldn't carry.. But that's not why we carry.. Your protecting against the long shots.

a reply to: mindseye1609

Ahhh okay. I'll take your never having been in combat but read about it opinion on that.

You're not a cop. Trying to use that scenario doesn't fly. I can guarantee that should ever find yourself in a situation and you dump 34 rounds at somebody just to keep their head down, you're going to get asked some hard, hard questions. Unless your situation takes place in an open field with nobody else around except your assailant, I guess. Is suppressive fire feasible by yourself with a handgun? Sure, but it only works till it's time to reload.

If you and your family are ever in a SHTF situation and you need to deploy a weapon, you should probably be infinitely more worried about getting your family away from the situation than going toe to toe with the bad guy like Wyatt Earp.

I ran 20 ball, 2 tracer, 5 ball in all of my mags in Iraq (never filled them to save spring life). I carried one that was all tracer to direct my squads fire. My point man carried several "all tracer" mags.

I live in Detroit and I carry daily.

I cannot imagine a scenario that I would need tracers in "the land of the big PX".

If you are thinking about a WWZ type event then tracers could save your life. They have a myriad of uses. Mostly communication but also as you mentioned, serving as a warning of low round counts.

I knew a few guys that loaded the first two rounds in the mag as tracers. That is a big mistake. By the time you see that "red line" you are dry. Move the tracer farther up in the stack. That way once you see it, you are ready to reload as you are dry, not after.

a reply to: Shamrock6

This is one of those discussions that I hate to have.

At the end of the day, even as a soldier, I would opt to break contact and get my family out of there.

The most firing I would potentially do is cover fire. IF it was necessary. If my position is NOT known to the enemy I would not fire at all.

a reply to: projectvxn

Even as a cop, and former (not ex) Marine I would run as fast as my kids could run to the closest exit. Like you, the only reason I would shoot at all would be to give us a couple extra seconds to get to the door. I'm not remotely interested in a protracted gunfight if my kids are around.

originally posted by: mindseye1609
Basically if me and my family get the attention of some piece of shart I'm not going to count my life on some nonsense New York safe only has 5 rounds because it's all I need bullshart. If I'm in trouble.. I want a 50 round xproducts drum on a sig mpx 9mm... About as big and bad as you can get in a pistol that's not silly (they make .50 Beowulf AR pistols lol) and that's still going to be severely outgunned by just an ak47.

Is it really practical to carry 50+ rounds of ammunition for every day concealed carry? I usually carry only 13 rounds as I use a Glock 23C for concealed carry. Sometimes I carry an additional magazine depending on where I'm going (traveling overnight, etc). For the most part, you're almost always close to an exit. So long as the active shooter, or the killzone, isn't between you and that exit, you shouldn't even have to draw your weapon.

The only reason you should go toe to toe with someone, as a civilian, is if there is no route to escape and confrontation is inevitable or if you're already in the kill zone.

If we're talking about complete practicality, your only concern should be with vacating the area with your family safely. Personally, I'm not going to try to lay down suppressive fire unless it's the only option to get my family away.

Tracers IDENTIFY your position.
I trusted MY own aim and REMOVED them from my belts of ammo.

Anytime you read some harebrained idea from a keyboard commando on the internet and think you might want to try it, ask yourself one question:

Is this method used by professional gunfighters?

The men who shoot bad guys for a living don't put tracers in the magazine of their side arm or primary weapon. They also don't stagger FMJ and hollow point ammunition in the same mag... the logic behind which I can't fathom.

Maybe someone should create a gun with 2 magazines, one with tracers the other one without.

Or maybe a tracer switch, if that's even possible.

a reply to: Shamrock6

Some people have the idea in their heads that if they have a gun that they could do all the things they've heard others doing who were far better trained and equipped.

You can't.

Don't pretend you can or you will get yourself or someone you truly care about killed.

If the situation is so bad that you are dodging gun fire to GTFO of there, then the situation is NOT survivable if you choose to engage.

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: Shamrock6

Some people have the idea in their heads that if they have a gun that they could do all the things they've heard others doing who were far better trained and equipped.

You can't.

Don't pretend you can or you will get yourself or someone you truly care about killed.

If the situation is so bad that you are dodging gun fire to GTFO of there, then the situation is NOT survivable if you choose to engage.

Too many people have seen too many movies and played too many video games.

originally posted by: theMediator
Maybe someone should create a gun with 2 magazines, one with tracers the other one without.

Or maybe a tracer switch, if that's even possible.

If you're being serious... why?

Back to the OP:

Tracers are very dirty creations that exponentially foul the barrel. When you are done shooting for the day, and the time has come to clean your weapon, you will look down your disassembled barrel. With a quiet regret filled grunt, you will claim, "Never again."

a reply to: projectvxn

Is that your way of saying you have never fired two guns whilst jumping through the air?

Don't worry, me neither.

(Yes, that was a Hot Fuzz reference)