Europe’s Leading Rabbi: Jews Must Begin Carrying Guns

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
What do you expect Israel to do? Sit back and accept the rocket fire? When Israel hits back hard the rockets stop for quite some time.

Let me put this to you - did the UK invade Eire every time a bomb went off in the UK, or soldiers were mown down by machine gun fire or mortar/rocket attack from over the border?

Did we bomb Dublin because some poor soldier was blown to bits in a car bomb or kidnapped by terrorists?

Did the UK launch a pre-emptive invasion when evidence was found of not only State collusion, but actual plans to invade Ulster with Irish Army regiments?

Did the Government order massive troop deployments when the PM herself was attacked or mortars were launched at Number 10?

No.

Because we dealt with each and every case as the criminal act it was, not use it as an excuse to pulverise a much weaker enemy in some sad "my balls are bigger" show which does nothing to end the cycle of violence.

That excuse for Israel is weak at best and I simply don't buy it.

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

It's not a "defence force" and don't try to paint it as such. It's an overblown Neighbourhood Watch with less power than PCSO's.

They also DO NOT receive taxpayer money - it's all done on private donations.

It's also worth noting that in 2013 after Lee Rigby was killed, they were requested by the London Muslim community to assist in their own security for Mosques etc which was provided willingly and warmly welcomed by London Muslims.

a reply to: Boeing777

Remember when Oxford University banned pork-related words last week because it would apparently "offend Muslims" in their online book store? Ridiculous right? www.abovetopsecret.com... What would this create in the mind of the average Joe? "OMG! the Muslims are taking over Oxford!" or " The Muslims have too many rights" Seriously, who in their right mind gets offended over seeing the word "pork" written on a website?

Go reread the article again it says Muslims and Jews not just Muslims.

As you can see, the same thing's going on with Jews now. The average person reading about this Rabbi saying all Jews in Europe need to be armed because of "anti-Semitism" will think " damn these Jews! too many rights, what about me?" hence creating negativity towards Jews.

Don't cry about other people saying that Jews shouldn't be above laws that others have to follow. Either change the law so it covers everyone or leave them as they are now. No one group of people should be treated better than anyone else. But it seems like some people think that Jews should be treated better than other people and should have special rights.

a reply to: Zanti Misfit

Maybe why we don't have so many dead school children.

a reply to: Zanti Misfit

It might shock you, in your little bubble there, but most EU countries have gun laws on par with those in the majority of the US with several having some very relaxed views on gun ownership and concealed carry. The only significant difference between the US and EU on gun laws is the general prohibition of military grade weaponry which, if you;re honest, is totally nuts to allow the general citizenry to own.

As to this notion of "armed insurrection", the EU is far more plural and democratic that the US will ever be with your two party pony show. We also have a long history of revolution and civil disobedience which again, you in the US have a lot to learn from.

I often here one of the reasons for wanting so many guns in the US is to "protect you" from the Government, but I never see a single one of you actually use said weapons to overthrow the Government you all clearly despise, which leads to me to conclude that is just an excuse you tell yourselves to justify owning "big guns" to make you feel powerful...

a reply to: Britguy

I would hope that our dear leaders would dismiss this out of hand with no debate.

Let me get this straight... days after an Anti-Semitic gunman used a kosher supermarket as a shooting gallery, you are scoffing at the idea that there is Anti-Semitism in Europe? You then want your leaders to proceed to make it harder for Jews to defend themselves and you want them to do it without debate!

I realize that Europe has more stringent gun controls than the United States, but it seems to me people who are at high risk of being attacked, whether it be single women, handicapped individuals, delivery service people or members of minority religions should have the right to at least make a case for being allowed to carry weapons in self defense. The issue is certainly something that calls for very public and open debate. We're not talking about an RPG launcher in every garage, like we have in the United States, just Rabbis, Imams and single mothers with a small caliber pistol at hand.

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: buster2010
a reply to: WarminIndy

So now you have a problem with Jews needing to defend themselves?

People don't have a problem with Jews defending themselves they have a problem with Jews being above a law that everyone else has to abide by.

Maybe if in 1935 they were allowed to defend themselves we might not have had WWII.

There was no law in 1935 to keep Jews from owning guns in Germany that law didn't start until 1938.

But hey, you just keep signing that check for the Muslims since you have all the time and resources to keep defending their temper tantrums. What a good parent you are.

This is simply an ignorant statement.

Let me see, are Jews considered equal in the eyes of British people? No, because every time I hear from a British person about Jews, they always attach "Evil Zionists" to them and that keeps them a separate group, even today in England and not one time in history has England apologized to the Jews.

But Spain apologized to the descendents of the Sephardi that they expelled 200 years AFTER England. Did England? Nope, the Jews just aren't worth apologizing to and William Shakespeare gets by with the name Shylock and the Brits think the Jews are requiring "The pound of flesh" from you. The fact that you keep them separate just show exactly how you have resisted their full assimilation.

None of what you posted has anything to do with what I posted. the fact is no one should be above the law simply because of their faith. If this statement is too hard for you to understand please say so.

Please go back to the OP, it says "victimization". Unless people recognize that they make the Jews the scapegoats and then the Jews are forced to defend themselves, you people flip out and don't like it.

Do you think there is an evil Zionist Jewish Illuminati agenda to shylock you and take the pound of flesh out of you? It's been going on since the 12 century and this is just another continual example of Jew bashing, please reread the OP and tell me why he is so leery of Jews, victimization and allowing Jews to have guns.

He is worried the Jews will shoot someone if they say something negative about Israel...and then you would have us believe he doesn't mean to be anti-Semitic and when I call it out, you defenders come out of the woodwork, because you have to keep the stereotypical image of Jewry so you can have another conspiracy theory to talk about. But the real conspirators, you help them by covering up for their propaganda spewing filth, and then don't understand why the Muslims bite the hands that feed them.

Keep on, this propaganda is costing Europe its culture, language, religion, different ethnicities and what makes each country special. But hey, if that's what you want, then by all means you can have it. The Jews didn't Judaicize Europe, but the Muslims sure are Islamicizing.

Where is there another Sigismund of Hungary? Where is there another Charles Martel? Those men took the threat seriously but here you are jumping on me for apparently not understanding when it was the OP who cried out "victimization" and "they will shoot someone over Israel".

Maybe the Jews should be given guns, because there are two kinds of ways to persecute, one is by exclusion and one is by outright denial of what has happened to them.

You still have not given a reason as to why people of one faith should be above the law. You can whine antisemitism all you want but the fact is that other people from other races and religions face just as much crap as the Jews do. Where is the call for them to be above the law?

Most Europeans and definitely Brits don't want the gun culture that exists in the States you have it and you love it and thats your right but we don't want it.

originally posted by: WilsonWilson
Most Europeans and definitely Brits don't want the gun culture that exists in the States you have it and you love it and thats your right but we don't want it.

Agreed. Where I live only the police and military are packing and we are very happy to live this way.

America is welcome to its gun culture

a reply to: buster2010

You still have not given a reason as to why people of one faith should be above the law. You can whine antisemitism all you want but the fact is that other people from other races and religions face just as much crap as the Jews do. Where is the call for them to be above the law?

Funny how you take a statement by a Jewish leader urging his co-religionists to take steps to defend themselves and twist it into something that makes it appear to discriminate against others. Muslims can have guns too... and the bloody events of the past week prove that they have more and deadlier arms than the Jews already.

a reply to: DJW001
The main victims in France were cartooonists not Jews, why has this tragedy been hijacked by this agenda.
These terrorists killed Muslims, Jews, and journalists. Nobody was safe.

originally posted by: DJW001
Let me get this straight... days after an Anti-Semitic gunman used a kosher supermarket as a shooting gallery, you are scoffing at the idea that there is Anti-Semitism in Europe? You then want your leaders to proceed to make it harder for Jews to defend themselves and you want them to do it without debate!

I'm sorry, what? An anti-Semitic gunman now, is it? Not an Islamic gunman attacking all those perceived to be "enemies of Islam", but just the Jews?

Only 4 out of 17 victims were Jews! Yet you choose to solely focus on the Jews as if they were the focus of the attacks!

The main thrust of the attacks was against Charlie Hebdo, for the perceived insults against Muhammed. The Kosher supermarket appears to have been an afterthought by an associate after he had already attacked Police (killing a black Christian woman) the day before.

Why are you (and others) trying to turn the France attacks into some sort of attacks against Jews when it was anything but. It was an attack against a free and civilised society, not a single religious group.

originally posted by: WilsonWilson
a reply to: DJW001
The main victims in France were cartooonists not Jews, why has this tragedy been hijacked by this agenda.
These terrorists killed Muslims, Jews, and journalists. Nobody was safe.

The Jews killed in 2012 were not cartoonists. The Rabbi is not claiming that Jews should be above the law, or that the rest of the populace should be disarmed. He is just saying that unfortunately, Jews need to take steps to defend themselves. Muslims and gays should probably do so too, but the Chief Rabbi doesn't speak for them, does he?

a reply to: Britguy

I'm gobsmacked they have their own security patrols with marked police cars that we pay for???

What the hell is going on to gi ved this so-called precious little lot such benefit paid for by us with nothing for us in return?

Every time I listen or see what is going on in israel the deliberate culling of people that aren't Jews I keep thinking surely the world will wake up to this behaviour and do something about it, because we cannot preach democracy to the world and let israel get away with culling people it doesn't like or finds 'inconvenient.

Yet here we are in Europe paying for priviledges for this one group of people who have used the holocaust as an excuse time and time again for more privileges paid for by others.

As for giving them guns legally, did anyone see the group of orthodox men being made to join the army and watch them trying to march together - if you can't manage something simple as an orderly march how can you manage a gun... dear lord!

If they get guns we will all have to have them and we will then al be able to defend ourselves. I do think its time for the repealing of special priviledges and the legal enforced silence about talking about this one group of people who think they are so superior to us and expect a free ride wherever possible. If I can speak about other nations they should not be allowed to get away with their legal interference with UK laws giving them privileges above all else - they make up such a small minority, yet have this world sting that is unhealthy for other nations. No one ever asks why they have their paranoia and perhaps if more of their history were truthfully revealed, we would probably all understand why - but that's a secret for another day. A read through the torah for every non jew should be a must and giving them guns and realising how they are taught from that book about how to treat non jews, anything that makes a weapon should be kept well clear.

All that said I do have sympathy for the ordinary jews who are innocent of hatred towards non jews but that doesn't mean they should be given extra privileges due to their religion. It was Lee Rigby in the UK a non jew that was killed and its our armed forces that are more at risk, unless israel attacks the palestinians again and people feel right to protest about that behaviour; however even then it has never led to a jew being deliberately sought out and murdered so I don't see the right of protection is needed.

a reply to: DJW001

Again, it didn't target "just Jews" but also French soldiers, several of which were of North African Islamic descent.

a reply to: stumason

Why are you (and others) trying to turn the France attacks into some sort of attacks against Jews when it was anything but. It was an attack against a free and civilised society, not a single religious group.

I agree, the attack on Charlie Hebdo was an attack against modern Liberal Democracy, perceived to be an enemy of Islam. Why are you trying to deny that the attack in the supermarket was intentionally targeted against Jews, because they, too, are perceived to be an enemy of Islam. Considering Jews to be an existential threat is a functional definition of Anti-Semitism.

Incidentally, several of the cartoonists were "ethnically Jewish."

a reply to: DJW001

Let me get this straight... days after an Anti-Semitic gunman used a kosher supermarket as a shooting gallery, you are scoffing at the idea that there is Anti-Semitism in Europe? You then want your leaders to proceed to make it harder for Jews to defend themselves and you want them to do it without debate!

Muslims and Christians were also killed so where is your cry for them to be armed as well? Nobody is for making it harder they want the laws to cover everyone equally not just give one group special privilege.

I realize that Europe has more stringent gun controls than the United States, but it seems to me people who are at high risk of being attacked, whether it be single women, handicapped individuals, delivery service people or members of minority religions should have the right to at least make a case for being allowed to carry weapons in self defense.

Everyone should have that right not just one group of people.

We're not talking about an RPG launcher in every garage, like we have in the United States, just Rabbis, Imams and single mothers with a small caliber pistol at hand.

For one it's illegal to own a RPG in America unless you have special permits. Also seeing how you want to use the states as your example the reason why we have our guns is because the law gives us the right to own guns. This law isn't just for a certain group of people but rather for everyone. So either change the laws for everyone or for no one.

originally posted by: stumason
a reply to: DJW001

Again, it didn't target "just Jews" but also French soldiers, several of which were of North African Islamic descent.

Those soldiers were killed because they were trying to protect Jews. They were not the primary target.

originally posted by: Shiloh7
a reply to: Britguy

I'm gobsmacked they have their own security patrols with marked police cars that we pay for???

They don't, so disengage the gob smacking device.... It is entirely privately funded and the cars are just the same as you see a variety of private security firms driving around. The only similiarity with police is the day glow pattern.

originally posted by: Shiloh7
What the hell is going on to gi ved this so-called precious little lot such benefit paid for by us with nothing for us in return?

It's just a neighbourhood watch scheme, albeit a well-funded one, but it has no more powers than you or I.

The "training" they get from the Police is, again, the same you or I could get if we organised our own Neighbourhood watch or community scheme.

There is nothing stopping you setting up your own "Security force" like they have.

a reply to: DJW001
Arming everybody does not help decrease violence its the very opposite. Its a stupid argument.