The 25th anniversary of the Lazar saga...

Here you go, something REAL (as far as the guy whose discussing it anyway) to sink our teeth into for once...

www.desertcompanion.com...

George is a friend and someone I personally know is way beyond B.S.

I can't deal with Lazar logically in my own mind, can anyone?

S...

a reply to: Springer

Link seems to be broken dear chap.....

originally posted by: Springer
I can't deal with Lazar logically in my own mind, can anyone?

S...

Stanton Friedman has, imo, been fooled by many things. That he tries to discredit Lazar makes me give Bob a second look and a little benefit of the doubt heheh.

Knapp makes a good point about the phone listing and newspaper article and even the temp service confirmation (although that can't be produced.)

Then again, George seems a little eager to believe sometimes. The skinwalker book was pretty subjective and not exactly journalism.

That it all ties in with classic ufo-myth-ology is a big minus as to an extraterrestrial explanation, but certainly fits the mold of OPSEC surrounding black projects. Maybe the newest, most secret projects were being developed somewhere else for the first time and someone in the intel world WANTED the world to look at Area 51?

John Lear's involvement? That adds an whole 'nuther level of either coo-coo or IC shenanigans.

I like pimp daddy Bob, though, either way. Seems like a fun guy

originally posted by: Springer
I can't deal with Lazar logically in my own mind, can anyone?

No... A simple question - when did he actually get his degree from MIT, and why is there no record of it anywhere?

No one remember him, no Professor there ever heard of him, he is in no yearbook...

a reply to: hellobruce

Also, his claims about Element 115. Supposedly, be worked with it when he was working there. Somehow, it has the ability to warp space. Certain isotopes of Element 115 are in the island of stability, but his claims seem to violate the Second Law of Thermodynamics.

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: Springer
I can't deal with Lazar logically in my own mind, can anyone?

No... A simple question - when did he actually get his degree from MIT, and why is there no record of it anywhere?

If the government can disappear you, and blow the head off the President of the United States in full view of the American public and then blame it on a CIA patsy, I'm thinking making your record at MIT disappear is Spy 101 stuff.

When Lazar talks, he's highly intelligent, if I'm any judge. When I hear Stanton Friedman talk about him, it sounds like sour grapes somehow... like he's pissed he didn't get to go into Area 51 himself. Friedman has parlayed his initial interviews with the Roswell families into a long career but for calm historical discussions, I really like Richard Dolan myself.

I interviewed four people who had personal knowledge of Lazar working at Los Alamos on classified projects, and I even took a tour of the lab with Lazar as my guide. Something was clearly wrong with this picture. Later, after Lazar got into legal hot water, I asked Nevada Rep. Jim Bilbray for help tracking down Lazar’s employment records. The congressman’s office said it was stonewalled by several agencies and had never seen anything like it.
www.desertcompanion.com...

This is the first I recall hearing that Lazar had access to a lab at Los Alamos that he gave George Knapp a tour of? Reminds me of Rick Doty giving Mark Pilkington & Linda Howe tours at Kirtland. Anyone have anymore information on that? Springer?

The most important information Lazar had was the location and time of test flights of the saucerlike craft. Three weeks in a row, he escorted a group of people out to the desert east of the Papoose range, and they witnessed a glowing saucer-shaped object rise above the mountains and perform dramatic maneuvers. One of the sightings was captured on videotape.
www.desertcompanion.com...

Only one tape? I guess that's the one I've seen. Wasn't very remarkable or "UFO-like" if I remember correctly?

I believe Bob Lazar. He gives convincing testimony.

I always believed Bob Lazars claims. My BS detector never went off regarding the man.

+1 for Bob Lazar. Everything fits just right. What would he have to gain by lying? He hasn't tried to cash in on it.

originally posted by: suz62
+1 for Bob Lazar. Everything fits just right. What would he have to gain by lying? He hasn't tried to cash in on it.

That's right.



This is what he said in May this year:

Look, I’m not out there giving UFO lectures, producing tapes. This is not a business of mine. I am trying to run a scientific business, and if I’m the UFO guy, it makes it really difficult, it is to my benefit that people don’t believe the story.

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: Springer
I can't deal with Lazar logically in my own mind, can anyone?

No... A simple question - when did he actually get his degree from MIT, and why is there no record of it anywhere?

No one remember him, no Professor there ever heard of him, he is in no yearbook...

There's an old saying: "Show me your friends and Ill show you the person you are." Or birds of a feather....

From what I heard, he is known to have friends from the MIT clicks for a long time.

Second, I reluctantly came to realize that I would never be able to prove Lazar’s claims, no matter how many witnesses came forward to verify parts of his story. The folks who run Area 51 are simply better at this stuff than I am, and were always able to deflect stories about what goes on there.

The folk from A51 might not have enjoyed having someone leveraging a story based on their secretive site. That would go a long way to explaining why they showed so much interest. The guys he was associated with weren't people you'd want to give any credibility and so maybe they went for staying quiet whilst listening to every channel?

The devil in the detail is how Lazar was known to have worked at the site (in some capacity) without having any available qualifications. Maybe he did and the security apparatus squelched all the details to avoid the narrative getting more media energy than it deserved? Thousands have worked there and hardly any of them would be qualified scientists; he could have been a mop technician.

Also when these guys make up stories they can't seem to help injecting famous people in them. People seem to love seeing popular figures in these stories and they add a sheen of believability. This one had Ed Teller in there.

I've never really known what to make of the whole Lazar episode. Back in 1989 it was a lot harder to even get at the information never mind discuss it with people across the globe. So some details were sketchy for a long time.

Even now with the wonders of modern communications technology I'm still left scratching my head. Although I tend to think that Lazar was probably fed bogus details. So the story he told may well be his version of the truth but is not actually the real truth.

If Bob Lazar was the target for a disinformation campaign then we have to ask the questions why? And why him?

Perhaps Lazar stumbled across something he wasn't meant to see or was accidentally given information that he 'didn't need to know'? Or maybe there were a group of individuals involved and Bob just happened to be the one to 'jump ship'.

Every time this story rears it's head I just see questions and no clear answers. I have a lot of respect for George Knapp. He tends to present some of the more interesting shows on Coast to Coast AM, and doesn't get easily fooled. Knapp is pretty clear on the areas where Bob's story runs into problems. Although he tends to give the benefit of doubt on some elements that can't be verified.

Stanton Friedman's assault on Bob Lazar and his claims are contained in an article on his website.

Incredible claims have been made about Bob Lazar for years. He supposedly is a physicist with an MS in Physics from MIT and an MS in Electronics from the California Institute of Technology. He was a “Scientist” for Los Alamos National Laboratory, and obtained a job back-engineering UFOs at a very secret site S-4 near Area 51 in Nevada through noted Physicist, the late Dr. Edward Teller.

Supposedly he figured out how saucers work using Element 115 — matter/anti-matter, etc. He was able to steal a small quantity of 115 from the 500 pounds available, but this was stolen back. There was indeed an announcement in early 2004 about the production of 4 atoms of element 115 by operating a huge European accelerator for many weeks. It has a very short half life so there is no way to accumulate pounds of it. He supposedly came forward with his story despite death threats because he thought the public has a right to know. Videotapes are available with his claims.

It is all BUNK..........


Full article available : The Bob Lazar Fraud (stantonfriedman.com)

Whilst Stan can be very entertaining and has done a lot to promote Ufology into the mainstream he must realise the irony of such a piece. Whilst Bob Lazar told his story and then decided to distance himself from it all and move on. Stan has continued to promote the same 'questionable' material for longer than I've been on the planet.

The Lazar tale is yet another one involving UFOs and military intelligence that stretches right back to Roswell. No coincidence there I think.

This is great, I've always enjoyed this story! Because there are compelling facets to it, but there are also small details that makes it impossible to conclude on anything.. So you're left to wonder. All the best stories have these characteristics.

I find it interesting with John Lears involvement, where he recounts some of the things that were confided to him by Lazar. There seems to be a bit wonkier side to the story that hasn't been picked up by the mainstream. I'm unsure if this is something Lear has inserted into the story himself, or Lazar has in fact said it. I can't quite remember, but at least John Lears side of the story can be seen in his interview with project camelot on youtube. Either way, I'm sure Lazar won't comment on it.

a reply to: mirageman

If Bob Lazar was the target for a disinformation campaign then we have to ask the questions why? And why him?

There's that possibility. Then again, he might have been the 'agent' of a disinformation campaign. There were interconnected social circles back then that included some notorious liars. Maybe he found himself being nominated to front an elaborate hoax? Looking at his associates at the time makes this a reasonable possibility. At least one of his associates had spent several years beforehand injecting one meme after another and still does afaik.

I guess it's all by-the-by and nothing more than an historical footnote in the book of ufological culture.

a reply to: Kandinsky

Yes indeed. Lazar may not been passing on the poison he may have been one of the chemists as well. I have never been able to get my head round it. Even after scratching it again.

Excellent article.

George Knapp's testimony of being wire-tapped (back when that was a big deal) and having "spooks" admit their job was to "follow him, Lear, Lazar and Huff," is intriguing to say the least. The MIB activity surrounding witnesses, the sudden "loss" of information about Lazar's past, etc., all add up to a very interesting story.

I've never known what to think about him, and have waffled between "insider who had his life and credibility destroyed" to "guy spinning a tall tale of ridiculous proportions" - the question for me has been "whose eyes should I be seeing this story through?"

George Knapp's very clear and journalistic approach, personal testimony and legwork, puts Lazar's story into a much more strongly credible category for me. While we may never really know the truth for ourselves, as it is too muddled and overlaid with purposeful obfuscation by people who are apparently very good at what they do, it will remain one of those stories that, while problematic, cannot be simply dismissed.

peace,
AB

For nostalgia sake I went back and listened to Bob Lazar's first appearance on Coast to Coast. It was my first exposure to him and at the time I was captivated and fascinated by his story.

Upon my revisiting it I am somewhat embarrassed that I ever took this man to be even remotely genuine. I must have had much lower standards of proof back then or was much more gullible because he completely lacks sincerity, credibility or anything even close to what any reasonable person would consider "evidence".

originally posted by: signalfire

If the government can disappear you, and blow the head off the President of the United States in full view of the American public and then blame it on a CIA patsy, I'm thinking making your record at MIT disappear is Spy 101 stuff.

A convenient way to account for gaping holes in Lazar's story which requires no effort or evidence whatsoever.

CT 101 stuff.