The 25th anniversary of the Lazar saga...

originally posted by: CosmicRay
You're assuming it was a US intelligence agency, which makes no sense. What if it was a foreign intelligence agency?

Makes no sense to you, you mean. However, of course a foreign intelligence service might have been involved, but I think Bob would have been handled quite differently in that case. Besides, when Capt. John Lear parachutes into a UFO story, hilarity and disinfo ensues...and it's a pretty good bet on which domestic intelligence service yanks his chain and whom he addresses as "Sir."

a reply to: The GUT

Why would the CIA want to expose their own top-secret aircraft base?

a reply to: CosmicRay

Wasn't so secret anymore. In my right hand I hold an egg. Pay no attention to my left hand. Like I said: It's a theory, but one that has some legs.

a reply to: The GUT

But what are the legs?

a reply to: CosmicRay

Do you 'research' just by asking a bunch of questions or do you dig in?

originally posted by: CosmicRay
a reply to: The GUT

Why would the CIA want to expose their own top-secret aircraft base?

is it a coincidence that lazar's story surfaced around the same time as the bennewitz affair occurred?

could all be part of a bigger picture - for example bill moore's suggestion that 'falcon' was harry rositzke, and that the main focus of falcon's operation was the soviets

a reply to: The GUT

I'm not a 'researcher', I was trying to have a conversation about your theory.

a reply to: CosmicRay

Research is your friend, C-Ray! I don't know that it's true, but it has been suggested and actually makes some sense. I don't believe in crashed saucers anymore, but I do believe in ubiquitous ufo personalities with intel credentials and/or connections who are playing a game that most probably has nothing to do with extraterrestrials. The $$$ angle doesn't seem to fit the totality of this would-be space opera...but I wouldn't doubt it was an afterthought for a player or two.

Which reminds me of George Knapp telling us how detrimental to his career his UFO investigations have been. Then I got to thinking: How much did George get paid to conduct that interview? No more than usual 'per episode' I'm sure---what I'm saying is, is that It doesn't appear that UFOs and Skinwalkers have been financially unkind to Mr. Knapp.

Some of his closest associates/friends have pulled, imo, some of the biggest ufo scams/disinfo jobs of our age. He either knows that or has failed to investigate ufology very deeply at all.

So, okay, yeah, it's hard to say exactly what they've been up to, but it's pretty stinky from here. Hang out with the disinfo crowd, absorb and publicize their stories, and what does that make one? Either a victim or a player. Only 1 more that I can think of: A victim turned player?

Wasn't there a recent coast to coast where leer said he saw his credentials and put them in his "office desk". Leer is a weird person that seems to enjoy twisting stories for his own amusement.

Though the one thing I do think adds to lazars credibility is he said he wished he never had come out and just kept his job. That to me sound like the most credible thing I've heard out of the whole 25 years since.

Still 50/50 on what his account is, but its still a pretty interesting story.

originally posted by: Dr. FosterVS
It's been widely acknowledged Lazar worked at Los Alamos, presumably for a contractor called Kirk-Mayer. Quote: "his job involved particle detection equipment - Geiger counter stuff."

And who is Robert Krangle? "owns Metrology Services, a calibration laboratory (making sure electronic machines measure accurately)" Gee, like... Geiger counters?

Lazar is known to be somewhat of an electronics guru - and who is Robert Krangle? He has "Ph.D. in semiconductor physics".

"Krangle is a self-described "rogue entrepreneur" who rails against a society obsessed with credentials" - wow, this is sounding more and more familiar.

Further to my original post:
I made it about half way through the interview before I had to bail.

Essentially this guy ("Dr." Krangle) SAW Lazar at Los Alamos, and ASSUMED he was a physicist because of the way he looked and dressed, and because he had a pocket protector. Looking like a physicist does not make you one. This was "sometime in the 80's". The guy could barely pin down the decade.

And apparently this guys "doctorate" is locked in his safe. Good plan, all three of mine are locked in my safe as well.
(P.S. - someone with doctorate in physics should know the difference between Galileo and DaVinci)

I recall listening in one of the coast2coast interviews from 2009 a 3-way interview between Lazar, Gene Huff & John Leer [with Art Bell moderating] (look it up on youtube) It's been a few years since Lazar spoke with Leer and he was apologetic for that, how they should stay in touch more often. Lazar recalled a couple of decades ago, Leer telling Lazar that there's water on the moon (as well as many other things but that's another story). At the time Lazar said he didn't believe him, how that claim was ridiculous & just another "Leerism." He then said, and I'm paraphrasing, "Here it is, 2009, and they've just confirmed that there is in fact water on the moon. So I'm admitting it first, John, you were right."

Despite saying some wacky stuff, he has made a lot of credible contacts throughout his career & isn't just a random nutcase that came out of nowhere. Just some food for thought.

As for Lazar, in that recent UFO Congress interview he responded to questions how the "sport model" at S4 looks strikingly similar to Billy Meier's "beamships" he alledgedly photographed. He said that "it's either the biggest coincidence in history, or something really did happen to that Meier guy."

originally posted by: CosmicRay
a reply to: The GUT

Why would the CIA want to expose their own top-secret aircraft base?

The existence of Area 51 was never classified a top-secret although the research that goes on there is , the CIA have a long history of PSYOP campaigns perhaps Lazar was one of them, they do work in mysterious ways.

originally posted by: Crisis
...As for Lazar, in that recent UFO Congress interview he responded to questions how the "sport model" at S4 looks strikingly similar to Billy Meier's "beamships" he alledgedly photographed. He said that "it's either the biggest coincidence in history, or something really did happen to that Meier guy."

Interesting. Meier continues to fascinate me despite his reputation. Not that I'm a supporter. Of course, what could Bob say to an observation like that? He was either busted or baffled. The more one looks at the contactees, the more it appears they were either co-opted--or birthed--by some faction of the intel community. A deeper look at the original "contactees" continues to reveal (to some researchers) more about what our government might really believe or know about the phenomenon.

Another case from that basic time period with "ufo" films that look almost exactly like Meier's and also has many interesting clues that suggest a well-funded and organized psychological manipulation of the "friends":



One of the more personally fascinating accounts I've ever come across with plenty of witnesses who are/were willing to talk.

Maybe specious, but the thought hit me there could be some very ingenious reasons for blowing someone's mind with excellent mock-ups at Area 51 that have nothing to do with testing loyalties or some such.

If you convince someone that anti-gravity is an existing (tho extraterrestrial) technology and then ask them to back-engineer or, theorize, on how it may be achieved, one might come up with some interesting directions to pursue.

So, I pole vaulted in high school for awhile. When I first started I had trouble clearing a measly 10 ft. Once I got it the first time, the coach tricked me with 11' presented as 10. I easily cleared it. Convince a mind of something and it can act as truth. Just a thought so nobody thinks my mind is closed.

a reply to: The GUT

Hello GUT. I thought you'd bailed from this place! Good to hear from you again.

And this point got me thinking.

George Knapp telling us how detrimental to his career his UFO investigations have been. Then I got to thinking: How much did George get paid to conduct that interview? No more than usual 'per episode' I'm sure---what I'm saying is, is that It doesn't appear that UFOs and Skinwalkers have been financially unkind to Mr. Knapp.

I have always held Mr. Knapp in quite high esteem as a journalist and presenter on C2C AM. The Lazar story was his breakthrough into the murky world of UFOs, little grey men and government cover up. Much earlier in the thread someone questioned if George got just a bit too close to Lazar. But he's also the only journalist to coax him to talk about the story every 5 years or so. I think Kandinsky said it's a "...permanent grey basket..." file.

I'm not sure Mr. Knapp was a player initially. Perhaps he was a victim. Perhaps Bob was too. But they certainly mingled at times with the conjurers of the 'grey' world.

I may be way off as I'm 5,000 miles away from it all. But I think George now treats the story like a rock band would their biggest hit single. It's a piece of nostalgia, his most popular piece. It's always worth revisiting and tiny variations are added as the years go by. But the song ultimately remains the same if you catch my drift?

a reply to: mirageman

Caught...and a rather worthy point to consider, MM.

originally posted by: The GUT
a reply to: CosmicRay

Which reminds me of George Knapp telling us how detrimental to his career his UFO investigations have been. Then I got to thinking: How much did George get paid to conduct that interview? No more than usual 'per episode' I'm sure---what I'm saying is, is that It doesn't appear that UFOs and Skinwalkers have been financially unkind to Mr. Knapp.

Some of his closest associates/friends have pulled, imo, some of the biggest ufo scams/disinfo jobs of our age. He either knows that or has failed to investigate ufology very deeply at all.

So, okay, yeah, it's hard to say exactly what they've been up to, but it's pretty stinky from here. Hang out with the disinfo crowd, absorb and publicize their stories, and what does that make one? Either a victim or a player. Only 1 more that I can think of: A victim turned player?

Oh please George. If it wasn't for the Lazar business, you would still be a nobody newcaster at a little Vegas TV station.
As it now stands you are doing occasional guest spots on C2C, the UFO seminar circuit, appearing in documentaries. Doesn't seem to have hurt your career (depending on what your career IS, I guess).

a reply to: The GUT
That is quite the story! i never heard of the Friendship case before and can't believe this hasn't received more attention. I listen to Coast to coast and am shocked they haven't covered this topic. Thank you for the video!

originally posted by: JackHill
I suppose that we should ask ourselves, why a person that could have regular contracts at Los Alamos will go 'wild' and 'make up' such unbelievable story? Does the '5 minutes of fame' makes any sense? Was he fired for whatever reason from Los Alamos and he did this as revenge of sorts? Was he approached by some intelligence agency and became part of some sort of disinfo program? What would be the point of such program if the only thing that resulted after all this is that you have a lot of new mutiple eyes not only watching over Groom Lake, but also in every possible 'secret' base around the US?

Surely the KGB already knew about Groom Lake by then for sure. They might not know what's in there though. And they would be watching all possible 'secret' bases no matter what.

What's the point? Think Star Wars (not as in the movie, but as in Ronald Reagan).

Make them think US has awesome alien space technology and the talk about orbital lasers is just a small part or cover of what US really has. The Soviet Academy of Sciences studied the issue and quite correctly said that the supposed Star Wars ICBM defense was completely infeasible and posed no significant military obstacle, but yet the politicians were still scared #less. Why? Maybe they had KGB feeding them scary stories that there was something else behind the surface Star Wars?

Think about it from the point of view of the USSR after WW2 when the Cold War started: they were inferior strategically in every way to USA and much poorer. It was their rocketry, and in particular their ICBMs (which they got very very good at) which made them a superpower, because ICBM attack was essentially undefendable (and still is). Now, threaten to eliminate the ICBM threat (# if you have gravity beams what else could you do---you could make all missiles go off target) and maybe they'd give up---and they did.

Some thoughts on Lazar

First off thank you Bob for 25 years of entertainment! Even though i discovered you last year.
Mr. Lazar is a given youtube fav.

I certainly believe him! -Up to 1% or so..
But then I tend to think in probabilites rather than to make up my mind, it's more fun.


Going for him:
-He's talking good. 99% would think of him as knowledgable in physics. He would not make a fool of himself as a substitute in high school.
-He's talking good and he is a practical guy. Creative and young at the time.
-He stumbled on Mr. Teller (he held an open lecture), who recognized him from the newspaper as a builder of rocket cars (hasn't been debunked has it?) That's the kind of circumstances that may lead to unexpected openings.
-He's still in tech - seems to be a genuine passion.
-He looks and sounds the same when he talks about his current buisness as he does while speaking of saucers.
-Paycheck from "department of naval intelligence"
-Mr. Knapp's comparison with Snowden is highly relevant. (No formal education - top secret job. Only getting the work done matters, like in most buisness)
-He has (at least) two witnesses and a video tape of strange craft, appearing at the times he predicted. (video quality as expected of "lights in the sky")

Going against:
-Anyone making such claims is almost certainly not telling the truth (the likely reality of the UFO phenomena is their motivator)
-His technical/physical explanations seems tailor made not to be definitly debunkable. Of course there could be a stable isotope "115" and maybe a few hundred gigawatts of power is enough to bend portions of space - we just don't know.
-His body language is a bit nervous (but ten again, it's the same when he speaks of other subjects)
-Lying about his education (most probably)

Does not matter:
-Sticking to the story - it could still be made up.
-Element 115 - the making of an unstable isotope does not prove anything in any direction.
-He's still alive - who says governments kill frequently and what would the benefit be when the cat is out of the bag?


To the question of his education..
Why would he introduce those lies when he seems to have made every effort to keep his story otherwise undebunkable?
Couldn't a (very) handy guy with general knowledge of physics and technology, recently written about in the papers, be interesting to the project, even without MS's in physics and electronics?
Could he have lied about his education from the start and when he spilled the beans, "they" forced him to stick with the lie as a part of a deal?
Could "they" force him to introduce some lies as a part of a deal?
After all "they" know that UFO:s are real and that there are competent and honest UFO researchers out there. Surely guys like Mr. Friedman can't ignore blatant lies like faked educations, can they?