‘Forced’ to fight: Disillusioned British ISIS Fighters Afraid to Come Home

a reply to: elysiumfire

Personally, because they are IS, I would prefer they were hunted down and slaughtered. Islamic fundamentalism, along with any other religious fundamentalism should be eradicated off the face of the planet. No debate. No understanding. Just get rid of them with extreme prejudice!

Eh?
That's what you're complaining that they do. So, do we want democracy and tolerance or do we want..what? Enforced one world laws for everyone?

We have laws for this. We are supposed to be a civilised nation. She is a Scottish child -young woman now -and we have laws and consequences for behaviour such as hers. We should not be calling for blood - I find that atrocious.

Again, let's temper the knee-jerk reactions on this, (believe me I have said "F**k em all, let em suffer!").

I realize now though, there is a much better opportunity here.

Interview all of them and decide which ones are most genuine and which ones have the best connections and community ties. Use these individual as assets. Get them on BBC and ITV explaining the horrible mistake they've made. Let them explain the real horror and convince others that moderation is the way forward for Islam.

Britain has a Jihadi problem and killing all these stateless ISIS folk will just make martyrs and strengthen the radical movements.

Obviously the potential for them using this to re-enter Britain for an attack needs to be considered and MI5/6 will keep a watchful eye.

Also if British radical Muslims turn on them and attack or kill them for "betraying jihad" then that is even more of a PR success against extremists.

There's never a perfect plan, but this holds a lot of potential to turn the tide with Islam in Britain.

originally posted by: skalla
a reply to: beansidhe

Bang on there... i know folk who had the most horrific and repeated punishment beatings for puerile reasons, doors kicked in and friends riddled with bullets etc. It's only when folk finally realised that continuing the cycle of revenge and blame ensured more killings on both sides that more peeps started to believe that a certain amount of forgiveness and understanding could move things towards peace. All ain't cured over there, but it's a massive step forwards.

Bomb the feg out of an advancing IS force, be my guest folks... but target aggression wisely or this is never going to end.

I hear you. An old friend of mine lost her brother in one of the most horrific ways possible. Blame, anger, revenge - they're all well and good but they don't move anything forwards.
And these young people are coming home, whether we like it or not. And they are our problem! Maybe I'm old fashioned (my wee free mother taught me well, lol) but I believe that you take responsibilty for yourself and your community. I don't like this attitude of 'someone else's problem, leave them over there' because it isn't going to help, or bring peace.

originally posted by: beansidhe
a reply to: elysiumfire




Eh?
That's what you're complaining that they do. So, do we want democracy and tolerance or do we want..what? Enforced one world laws for everyone?

We have laws for this. We are supposed to be a civilised nation. She is a Scottish child -young woman now -and we have laws and consequences for behaviour such as hers. We should not be calling for blood - I find that atrocious.

It would be racist and intolerant to not let these intolerant people return. We have to give them another chance to be loyal to the country their parents or they themselves immigrated to.

They somehow think it's better that they were fighting Assad?

That was an illegal war to begin with, I am sure Assad killed many of his own - but I bet that was in response to western sponsored terrorism inside Syria.

They are much too volatile to allow back.

And they want to return to their homeland, what business did they have fighing in Syria if the UK is their homeland?

Oh to help oppressed Muslims - By oppressing other Muslims? And killing civilians?

Makes sense.

a reply to: beansidhe


Let's see, someone who believed that it was perfectly okay to kill people for believing you should be following religion differently, someone who believed chopping the heads off innocent people was justified, someone who supported the crucifixion of innocent people...

there are some times in your life where you cannot be forgiven for your actions... murder and the support thereof is one of those times.

Should have thought about that long before being a willing participant. She should die for her crimes against humanity - and the supporting of them with all that she had.

There is no return from that road. None whatsoever.

a reply to: DarknStormy

So what? Since when were Extremists the victims? Screw them.. And regardless of my point of view they are going to continue killing innocent people.

How many innocent people have we killed?

How many of them said screw us?

a reply to: Soapusmaximus

I find myself agreeing with you, but also realising that many US and UK soldiers fought in what was arguably an illegal war abroad.

The devils advocate also finds me asking what they were doing in Iraq.

Of course, they were removing WMDs and getting rid of Saddam for the benefit of the innocent Iraqi people, some 700,000 (approx etc) of whom died in allied air strikes and many of whom are now under the boot/sword of IS. Western soldiers took part in the bombing of civilians "because of orders" and we let them come back.

So we (UK/US) helped the Iraqis by getting rid of the strongman who perversely stabilised the region and then surrendering them to IS whom we armed.

Seemed we picked them out of the frying pan, put them in the fire and then threw them to the wolves.

I honestly don't mean to parody parts of your post in a negative manner as you made genuine and good points, but it's so easy to turn it around and see it from a different perspective.

So if someone joined the fight against Assad, who did some really bad s###, then found them selves unwittingly in a fanatical murderous IS and don't want to be part of that, i actually get it.

Potential returns need to be extremely carefully assessed and managed etc, but i think it's a reasonable thing to examine.

a reply to: Soapusmaximus

As a Muslim, I believe anyone who was a member of ISIS should face the death penalty. Period.

Psychopaths don't even begin to cover what is wrong with those people - and I'll be damned if they are living next door to me...

a reply to: skalla

Ask yourself how many UK soldiers crucified men or chopped their heads off with a dull knife.

And you will have your answer to why we should not be forgiving - and punishing to the fullest extent.

originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: Soapusmaximus

As a Muslim, I believe anyone who was a member of ISIS should face the death penalty. Period.

Psychopaths don't even begin to cover what is wrong with those people - and I'll be damned if they are living next door to me...

That's like suggesting that every member of the German forces of WW2 was acting like they were SS and all need sending to Nuremberg.

Except you would not give them then benefit of a trial by the sounds of things??

ETA: i'm not naive enough to think all who joined IS did so to behead folk.

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis

How many innocent people have we killed?

How many of them said screw us?

Yeah I know.. Maybe ISIS are just the payback for all the crap we have caused over there but I still don't agree with what they are doing and I still don't agree that people from Western countries who are fighting alongside them should be allowed to return to our countries and pose a possible risk to our society.

I have even said screw us because I didn't agree with the wars and regime changes we have been behind either... I see it as two sides of the same coin when it comes down to it, it's all selfish evil.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

Ask yourself how many UK soldiers crucified men or chopped their heads off with a dull knife.

And you will have your answer to why we should not be forgiving - and punishing to the fullest extent.

How many people had to scrape what was left of their child out of the dirt?

War is hell

A crime is a crime - retribution is as useless as it is meaningless

But - it is all understandable

a reply to: OpinionatedB


They need to find out where and how these folks were indoctrinated. Shows that Britain and the US already have hard core cells in their midst. Whos doing the recruiting.......and run their azz out of the country.

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

War is hell, your right... but the reason for war is much different between them.

The people fighting for ISIS are fighting BECAUSE they don't believe anyone has the right to follow the religion of their choice, however they choose.

That is NOT why individual US, UK and NATO soldiers went to Iraq... and we have not fought in Syria ever.

The statement of the Muslim Brotherhood and those who followed them and ISIS to fight against Assad was because they didn't like the fact there was FREEDOM of RELIGION in Syria and that the non-believers in their opinion (shia, nusayri, druize, christian and alawiyyah) should NOT have any say in government...

THAT is why they were fighting Assad... and THAT is a HUGE difference.

Not only that, but the gruesome manner of death for any who fought them was something we have not ever seen in the Middle-east in my lifetime - possible in hundreds of years since we have seen crucifixions and the like...

These are war crimes, and they are and should be punishable by death.

a reply to: Spiramirabilis
myself..none, I wouldn't expect alot of mercy if i did..we are not talking state actions we are talking about indivduals who made a personal choice to leave their countries and join an extreme fundamentalist group that gets its kicks slaughtering people in a very one on one personal way.
If they want back they can stand trial for crimes against humanity.

originally posted by: abe froman
You don't get to come home. You made your bed...now die in it.

If they do get to come home, it should be a jail cell to rot in for the rest of their lives for all the War crimes they have committed. I never wish death on any human being, however there does come a time when murderous human beings must be dealt with, As my friend Abe here states in one line, they made their beds, and now they must die in that bed.
As they are trying to be sneaky, and get around their crimes by coming home.

When asked whether UK authorities would allow jihadists, peripherally linked to IS, to avoid a prison sentence upon returning if they engage in decentralization and undergo state surveillance, the spokesperson declined to specify.

The spokes person pleads the 5th on that statement. Thus that leaves me with the gut wrenching actions that must be taken. These militants gave no quarter, hence they get what they put out.
A life long prison sentence would only lead to protecting these criminals.
They did make the choice to become what they have become, and now they must reap what they have sown.

a reply to: DarknStormy

Yeah I know.. Maybe ISIS are just the payback for all the crap we have caused over there

Not payback - we're not living in an Even-Steven universe. It is a result - and there was cause

I still don't agree that people from Western countries who are fighting alongside them should be allowed to return to our countries and pose a possible risk to our society.

That's because you think we're better than that - they have experiences and or people in their lives who see it differently

If they return - how would you know that they aren't returning because they found they had rushed to join something they couldn't in good conscience support?

How do you know they won't return wiser and more profoundly respectful of their home? Not all of them are going to be criminals - not even by association. If we say they are, then we also must say all our servicemen are also criminals - by association

Life isn't neat and tidy - black and white. I mentioned earlier - loyalty is a complicated thing. How many crimes have been committed in the name of allegiance? How many wars were just wars?

I'm a pacifist - but I'm not naive. Once we're in something - we're in it

It takes a certain kind of person to say enough - to see things for what they are - and go home. But now they can't - can they?

Our soldiers are welcomed home - no matter what they've done. And with good reason

The whole thing is crazy

a reply to: Logarock

I very much agree with you on that...

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

what #ing payback?

What payback for someone who has never lived in the middle east?

What payback for someone who is NOT mind you fighting the west... but they ARE in fact killing Muslims?

What Payback is it that you speak of... when its shia dying, its druize over there dying,...

what payback is it when a man who has never seen the middle east decides for himself to go over there and KILL people for not following HIS damned version of OUR damned religion?

How is this payback for you... or your country?

These people are psychotic! And if they are not stopped they will come to haunt YOU in YOUR country...

And here you are, inviting them back in....