Scientists mystified as 20 earthquakes hit Oklahoma in one day

originally posted by: EdSurly
a reply to: stormbringer1701

You mean the land just below the dam? Right behind where that old general store used to be? I think the park rangers house is there now but I could be wrong. I used to know that lake like the back of my hand....but I got married, had kids and sold my bass boat :-( My dad and the rest of the local bass club in my home town spend weeks putting out fish cover (Christmas trees and cedars bound together with rope and weighted down with concrete blocks) in the days leading up to the lake filling in the mid seventies. Steed used to be a fantastic bass fishery, I remember as a kid watching the Freddy Grant Fishing Show (now that's a blast from the past!) and he had a show on Tom Steed. I also remember being at the dam opening ceremony...I couldn't have been more than 4 or 5.

I looked at Russ real estates website but didnt see any land fitting your description. Is it listed out of an Altus real estate company? Anyway...buy that land and Ill help ya pan! I just spent (as in last week the loan closed) 6 figures expanding my small business so I'm spread thinner than melted butter at the moment...financially speaking that is.

www.landwatch.com...

the photos include 4 or 5 maps; 2 of which show the land in relation to the lake and roads and show the creek and terrain relief. on the eastern third of the property, otter creek runs from north to south all the way through the land. additionally there is a shallow but definite terrain bench to either side of the creek bed. if this portion of otter creek is gold bearing then the bench should also have gold for high banking, dry washing or taking to the stream to sluice out.

a reply to: stormbringer1701

I know that property, I think I know the owner also...if I'm not mistaken. It's part of his dads farm, his dad passed away a couple years ago and I guess he's selling it now. About 6 years ago I shot an ass load of geese off wheat pasture there with my .220 Swift BUT, that isn't Otter creek....that isn't even what I would call a creek. It's just a dry wash or shallow arroyo....dry every day. I would guess it would take a couple inches or more rain to even get any flow. Otter creek joins Glen creek (which is west of Otter creek) in the lake....about 500 yards north of pole point, which is the first point west of the launch ramp. That junction is a very good place to catch some of the big walleye and hybrid bass Tom Steed is known for and those creeks exit the lake below the dam. When fishing Steed, you can go "up" Otter creek for a ways by Cold Springs, an old ghost town that sprung up during those gold rush days. Nothing left of Cold Springs except for a few old foundations. THAT is the land you want to jump on if it ever comes up for sale. It's NW of the dam, west of Glenn creek. I'll try and post a picture of what Im talking about.

Zoom into Cold Springs and look at this map; www.mapquest.com... where Otter creek enters the lake to the NW would be what your looking for...or any land south of the lake on Otter creek below the dam (some maps call it Glen creek so map makers make mistakes lol) Glen creek wasn't really a creek at all till the lake flooded and followed the arroyo, so now it has water in it. But Glen creek, coming from the ancient mountains in the area might also have some interesting finds if one was to go on a walkabout in that area. Most of that area north of the lake is Great Plains State Park and public hunting area. So open to the public, but since were so far away from OKC or any other metropolitan areas, there is rarely many folks around.

originally posted by: EdSurly
a reply to: stormbringer1701

I know that property, I think I know the owner also...if I'm not mistaken. It's part of his dads farm, his dad passed away a couple years ago and I guess he's selling it now. About 6 years ago I shot an ass load of geese off wheat pasture there with my .220 Swift

BUT, that isn't Otter creek....that isn't even what I would call a creek. It's just a dry wash or shallow arroyo....dry every day. I would guess it would take a couple inches or more rain to even get any flow. Otter creek joins Glen creek (which is west of Otter creek) in the lake....about 500 yards north of pole point, which is the first point west of the launch ramp. That junction is a very good place to catch some of the big walleye and hybrid bass Tom Steed is known for and those creeks exit the lake below the dam. When fishing Steed, you can go "up" Otter creek for a ways by Cold Springs, an old ghost town that sprung up during those gold rush days. Nothing left of Cold Springs except for a few old foundations. THAT is the land you want to jump on if it ever comes up for sale. It's NW of the dam, west of Glenn creek. I'll try and post a picture of what Im talking about.

Zoom into Cold Springs and look at this map; www.mapquest.com... where Otter creek enters the lake to the NW would be what your looking for...or any land south of the lake on Otter creek below the dam (some maps call it Glen creek so map makers make mistakes lol) Glen creek wasn't really a creek at all till the lake flooded and followed the arroyo, so now it has water in it. But Glen creek, coming from the ancient mountains in the area might also have some interesting finds if one was to go on a walkabout in that area. Most of that area north of the lake is Great Plains State Park and public hunting area. So open to the public, but since were so far away from OKC or any other metropolitan areas, there is rarely many folks around.

my understanding is that glen creek is the headwaters of otter creek and that that portion of otter creek was renamed glen creek sometime in the decades after that article was written. but that creek below the lake should also be otter creek. it is pretty clear that it follows the course of the portion of otter creek above the lake.

a creek does not even have to have water in it to be a gold creek. seasonal waters such as from heavy rains are enough to move the gold down what is normally dry or mostly dry. that is why dry washes in the desert are pretty good gold prospects in gold area. I am still gonna go there and pan test pan. and while i am there i will go to the top of glen creek where the two seasonal streams merge into the glen creek headwaters. at the very least i can try to get down at the two bridges there. Law about this sort of thing is peculiar.you can access land as far as 75 feet on either side of a bridge legally without being a trespasser. Also you can access any waterway or dry bed that is considered a navigable waterway by the U.S. govt. and the definition does not require that you can get a boat or raft or water wings or anything up it by floating. of course the owners may not feel that way. but legally yeah.

that is why you can go up to devils canyon that way from the north fork of the red river despite it being surrounded by park and private lands. it almost certainly is not truly a navigable water way except by the govt definition. but that is enough. i want to see if i can see the Spanish turtle rock treasure symbol that was at the mouth of the "creek" (i think there is a pond there now but one never knows...)

books.google.com... SrcprjK67_hdcrtp66p6Oh0Q&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiNtfrf9ZHLAhVDVyYKHRU3BtMQ6AEIJjAB#v=onepage&q=spanish%20turtle%20rock%20at%20devil's%20canyon%20oklaho ma&f=false

the problem with identifying otter creek is this: there is east west and middle otter creeks. somebody renamed the part of otter creek that had nuggets in it rather that the flour gold to glen creek. if you look at the entire otter creek drainage complex that creek on that land should be part of middle otter creek.

over the centuries and aeons a river bed on soil of any sort will meander; which means the benches and surrounding ground may have been the river bed in the past. this means that gold deposits are as likely in the dirt there where the river used to flow as where it does now. In fact in the case with ancient mountains sources that are on their final legs due to erosion the gold under the dry part of the alluvial plain will have bigger and better gold than is in the contemporary flow.

I know that property, I think I know the owner also...if I'm not mistaken. It's part of his dads farm, his dad passed away a couple years ago and I guess he's selling it now. About 6 years ago I shot an ass load of geese off wheat pasture there with my .220 Swift

BUT, that isn't Otter creek....that isn't even what I would call a creek. It's just a dry wash or shallow arroyo....dry every day. I would guess it would take a couple inches or more rain to even get any flow. Otter creek joins Glen creek (which is west of Otter creek) in the lake....about 500 yards north of pole point, which is the first point west of the launch ramp. That junction is a very good place to catch some of the big walleye and hybrid bass Tom Steed is known for and those creeks exit the lake below the dam. When fishing Steed, you can go "up" Otter creek for a ways by Cold Springs, an old ghost town that sprung up during those gold rush days. Nothing left of Cold Springs except for a few old foundations. THAT is the land you want to jump on if it ever comes up for sale. It's NW of the dam, west of Glenn creek. I'll try and post a picture of what Im talking about.

Zoom into Cold Springs and look at this map; www.mapquest.com... where Otter creek enters the lake to the NW would be what your looking for...or any land south of the lake on Otter creek below the dam (some maps call it Glen creek so map makers make mistakes lol) Glen creek wasn't really a creek at all till the lake flooded and followed the arroyo, so now it has water in it. But Glen creek, coming from the ancient mountains in the area might also have some interesting finds if one was to go on a walkabout in that area. Most of that area north of the lake is Great Plains State Park and public hunting area. So open to the public, but since were so far away from OKC or any other metropolitan areas, there is rarely many folks around.

my understanding is that glen creek is the headwaters of otter creek and that that portion of otter creek was renamed glen creek sometime in the decades after that article was written.

I don't know what article your speaking of, but Glen Creek wasn't much of anything before the dam was built. However, Otter creek has always been Otter creek, their headwaters are miles from one another. Glen creeks head waters are north east of the lake. Otter creek headwaters split just south of Roosevelt. The "main" tributary is west of Roosevelt and is intersected with a canal built in the late 70's that connect Otter creek to Big Elk creek west of Roosevelt. My dad has an old topo map of the area that was to become the Tom Steed and he shellacked/clear coated that map onto a piece of wood and he marked the elevation line of the lake. I don't have that map in front of me but I don't even think Glen creek was named on that map.

but that creek below the lake should also be otter creek. it is pretty clear that it follows the course of the portion of otter creek above the lake.

The creek below the dam is definitely Otter creek.

a creek does not even have to have water in it to be a gold creek. seasonal waters such as from heavy rains are enough to move the gold down what is normally dry or mostly dry. that is why dry washes in the desert are pretty good gold prospects in gold area. I am still gonna go there and pan test pan. and while i am there i will go to the top of glen creek where the two seasonal streams merge into the glen creek headwaters. at the very least i can try to get down at the two bridges there.

One larger bridge now.

People fish for crappie there at the bridge on Glen creek. There's easy access to Glen creek so that shouldn't be a problem. With our monsoons of last spring and summer (over 20" of rain in May alone...which is damn near our yearly average) Tom Steed is in good shape. Better than it's been in years for water volume. I don't know how far your coming from but I would implore you to spend some time at Otter creek. Close to the lake it shouldn't be a problem, but farther north the creek is like most creeks in western Oklahoma, very steep sides and no to shallow water. Once you get down into the creek it should be easy going...assuming it hasn't rained. If somebody gives you grief just tell them that General Tommy Franks said it was ok.

Law about this sort of thing is peculiar.you can access land as far as 75 feet on either side of a bridge legally without being a trespasser. Also you can access any waterway or dry bed that is considered a navigable waterway by the U.S. govt. and the definition does not require that you can get a boat or raft or water wings or anything up it by floating. of course the owners may not feel that way. but legally yeah.

that is why you can go up to devils canyon that way from the north fork of the red river despite it being surrounded by park and private lands. it almost certainly is not truly a navigable water way except by the govt definition. but that is enough. i want to see if i can see the Spanish turtle rock treasure symbol that was at the mouth of the "creek" (i think there is a pond there now but one never knows...)

Yes, there is a pond there about half way up from the river in the "canyon"....really a valley between Soldier peak and Flat Top mountain....but whom am I to argue with the Spanish? lol The old Wichita Indian encampment was closer to the river. I love that place. It is difficult to move up the canyon because of all the old live oaks and mesquite trees choking the way but its a hell of alot of fun to explore. Just stay friendly with anyone you see....as you probably wont run into anyone there unless their a local land owner checking their cattle. Theres a family that owns land on the other side of the North Fork of the Red and they have found lots and lots of stuff in Devils Canyon and even though that's federal land, they are mighty possessive of it. You know who they are as the patriarch is photographed in the book linked below. They also have been known to run cattle in the canyon itself. If you do make that trip down the river you will probably walk most of the way...you may get lucky and a flat bottom may float you to the mouth of the creek but I figure you have alot of walking in front of you. Have fun and watch out for the Diamond Backs!

books.google.com... SrcprjK67_hdcrtp66p6Oh0Q&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiNtfrf9ZHLAhVDVyYKHRU3BtMQ6AEIJjAB#v=onepage&q=spanish%20turtle%20rock%20at%20devil's%20canyon%20oklaho ma&f=false

I've read and re-read this book so many times the spine is trash. Theres another book published in the 1940's with a chapter dedicated to Devils Canyon but I can't remember the name. I went home with a college buddy that lived in eastern Oklahoma, Wister in fact and his dad was a treasure hunter. When I told him where I was from and that I had trekked into Devils Canyon multiple times he was ecstatic and showed me that book. I read that chapter a couple times over the course of that weekend. He had a fantastic collection

all you need to wet pan is a puddle or a bottle of water. or you can dry pan if its really dry. as in dry dry. that is why the amount of water is not an issue for these "creeks." there is gold in the north fork of the red river too historically cited. if its a dry creek i can leave the sluice at home or in the truck. saves weight.

LOL. General Franks has retired. They'll tell me to get lost unless he happens to live in that area.

looking at your cold springs map not only is otter creek branches all over the vicinity of the lake and roosevelt but all around snyder too. not only that but unnamed creek (the one that starts and goes nowhere) to the west of the lake looks like a change of course for the present nearby branch of otter creek. not only that but that whole sandy plain over than entire area could have been otter creeks over the passage of large enough amounts of time.

originally posted by: stormbringer1701
looking at your cold springs map not only is otter creek branches all over the vicinity of the lake and roosevelt but all around snyder too. not only that but unnamed creek (the one that starts and goes nowhere) to the west of the lake looks like a change of course for the present nearby branch of otter creek. not only that but that whole sandy plain over than entire area could have been otter creeks over the passage of large enough amounts of time.

The only time a diamond back really worries me is if i am crawling into a cramped cave hole looking for treasure and run into one or many denning up. otherwise i can evade and avoid them but you can only back up so fast on all fours or low crawling backwards.

originally posted by: stormbringer1701
all you need to wet pan is a puddle or a bottle of water. or you can dry pan if its really dry. as in dry dry. that is why the amount of water is not an issue for these "creeks." there is gold in the north fork of the red river too historically cited. if its a dry creek i can leave the sluice at home or in the truck. saves weight.

Yea, theirs plenty of water to pan, I was meaning more for foot travel.

LOL. General Franks has retired. They'll tell me to get lost unless he happens to live in that area.

General Franks lives about two miles (as the crow flys) N E of the lake behind a mountain. A beautiful ranch, you'll know his property from the nice steel gates with the generals star on it :-)

originally posted by: EdSurly

originally posted by: stormbringer1701
all you need to wet pan is a puddle or a bottle of water. or you can dry pan if its really dry. as in dry dry. that is why the amount of water is not an issue for these "creeks." there is gold in the north fork of the red river too historically cited. if its a dry creek i can leave the sluice at home or in the truck. saves weight.

Yea, theirs plenty of water to pan, I was meaning more for foot travel.

LOL. General Franks has retired. They'll tell me to get lost unless he happens to live in that area.

General Franks lives about two miles (as the crow flys) N E of the lake behind a mountain. A beautiful ranch, you'll know his property from the nice steel gates with the generals star on it :-)

He was a Full bird Colonel at the time he was my DIVARTY commander. 1ST Cav Ft Hood Tx. I think it is possible i saw him as a Lt Col briefly before that.

side note: the Kiamichi river and mountains as well as that general area were named by the french and not the Choctah. And what is purely awesome is the french trappers who upon first meeting them named them in honor of the blue jays they found there which they called "little horned screamers." The word itself means "horned screamer" and was first used south of the border for a different bird a little larger than a grouse. But the French were evidently quite impressed with the common Blue Jay to name a whole region and landmarks in an important territory to them after them.

What kind of bird is that? A little horned screamer. Awesome.

originally posted by: stormbringer1701
Oh i finally found it:

rebelcherokee.labdiva.com...

(Exerpt from Ms. Adams and Mr. McClure's column)

Oct. 2, 1949 --- A gold lode waits for a prospector in the foothills of the Wichita Mountains.

Down a sandy Creek, a little north of Mountain Park, a sourdough can pan $44.00 worth if he works 17 hours. "Sure can", says George Read, tool dresser and miner, "but it's flour gold….fine as dust."

Read, a white-haired Mountain Park man who doesn't do much now except work on election boards and recall his mining days, can tell a story of earlier days when Mountain Park and Cold Springs pioneers had the gold fever.

Their description is actually true of most oklahoma gold found at the surface. this stuff is so fine you can barely see it in the pan (fortunately i have a pocket microscope so i see giant gold meteorites). its as fine as talc to bird shot size if you are lucky. But 44 buck in 17 hours. 44 bucks back then was about the price of 2 ounces of gold. that is an awful lot of baby powder dust particles passing through your pan sluice or rocker.

In that area there are several sandy creeks or sand creeks. i don't know why cartographers or surveyors do that but there is another gold creek in oklahoma i am partial to that has an evil goldless twin within about 5 kms up by talogah.

Mountain Park is actually where I was born and raised. My brothers probably know the creek. I'll see if we can check it out in September.