We do NOT live in a police state! Please move on.

reply to post by ProfessorChaos

The "wake up" call for the OP is going to be a particularly harsh one, in my opinion.

Cops will be the last to see the light. The public are viewed as the enemy by them. We see the evidence every day in the new threads in this forum. Cases of police brutality and violations of the Constitution show up regularly.
They can beat mentally ill people to death and get away with it. Yay! We are so free!

noun: police state; plural noun: police states
1.
a totalitarian state controlled by a political police force that secretly supervises the citizens' activities.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------< br />
: a political unit characterized by repressive governmental control of political, economic, and social life usually by an arbitrary exercise of power by police and especially secret police in place of regular operation of administrative and judicial organs of the government according to publicly known legal procedures
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------< br />
A police state is a state in which the government exercises rigid and repressive controls over the social, economic, and political life of the population. A police state typically exhibits elements of totalitarianism and social control, and there is usually little or no distinction between the law and the exercise of political power by the executive.
The inhabitants of a police state experience restrictions on their mobility, and on their freedom to express or communicate political or other views, which are subject to police monitoring or enforcement. Political control may be exerted by means of a secret police force which operates outside the boundaries normally imposed by a constitutional state.[1]

reply to post by projectbane


People that appease the beast have blood on their hands. You see, most brutality is probably against people that you don't know and don't look like you. By your logic it invalidates the attrition. Rhymes with Germany in 1932 doesn't it?

Applause to people who recognize the problem as it emerges instead of waiting until the change is complete.

Apologists can and will join these thugs. They will not be absolved, like the German citizens that stood by and did nothing when the Nazis were assuming leadership in Germany. Blood on their hands.

Another reason why the OP doesn't see any abuse is that it's all done under the cover of help and protection.

Having your and your children's private parts touched before you can travel isn't considered by people like the OP as abuse -it's considered keeping us safe. Never mind these pat downs wouldn't have stopped the alleged 9/11 attacks but "they" say it's for our protection so it has to be ok.

I'm sure most people cheered when the people who named their kids after Hiltler lost custody. Now custody is being lost because of a minority toddler talked about being a thug. Once they established they could remove a child from the home because they didn't like the parent's beliefs, they opened the door for abuse but most people don't perceive it as abuse because THEIR beliefs haven't been targeted -yet.

Visitor2012

noun: police state; plural noun: police states
1.
a totalitarian state controlled by a political police force that secretly supervises the citizens' activities.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------< br />
: a political unit characterized by repressive governmental control of political, economic, and social life usually by an arbitrary exercise of power by police and especially secret police in place of regular operation of administrative and judicial organs of the government according to publicly known legal procedures
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------< br />
A police state is a state in which the government exercises rigid and repressive controls over the social, economic, and political life of the population. A police state typically exhibits elements of totalitarianism and social control, and there is usually little or no distinction between the law and the exercise of political power by the executive.
The inhabitants of a police state experience restrictions on their mobility, and on their freedom to express or communicate political or other views, which are subject to police monitoring or enforcement. Political control may be exerted by means of a secret police force which operates outside the boundaries normally imposed by a constitutional state.[1]

reply to post by projectbane


Well I will tell you this....coming from an ex cop for almost 10 years.....we can play with the word police state sure. Do I see a checkpoint every day... no. But let me explain where it is going and what we are doing in LE just before I left.

It came down to money. When the financial crisis started to spread it spread to cities too. Our insurance rates went up, we couldnt get equipment, etc. No big deal, but then the city got creative!

1)They started asking us to write parking tickets for laws that existed in 1960 that had never been done before in the last 3 decades.

2)They started having us make bull # city arrests to generate revenue..what this means is instead of arresting someone on a state charge we would just write them a city ticket that doesnt even go on their record but we needed less evidence to make an arrest and the money/fines went straight to the city's "general funds" whatever the f*^k that meant.

3) They started tweaking state laws like for a dui....they had us doing this thing where they wanted us to ask suspected pot smokers if they had smoked pot within the last week...if they said yes they wanted us to make an arrest for dui drugs cause of a tiny narrative in the statute that if they piss having drugs in their system they could be dui. Even though at the moment they werent impaired. Think about that....a dui even though you are not impaired....so I jokingly attempted to arrest another officer who had taken pain meditation 2 days prior for an injury and said if you took a piss test right now youd be "hot" and have a dui.

As you can imagine I was branded as a "cancer" because I refused to participate in any of the above scenarios however I would sometimes only write a city ticket instead of permanent state charges as that can actually benefit the public at times.

Then result was I was so sick of the way law enforcement was looking that I quit.....almost 10 years man. Sure maybe im bitter how it all ended, but atleast I was there and can say....we are indeed in a police state in my opinion. Our civil rights are being violated like mad and cops work on your ignorance of the law. I could probably write 20 more stories like the stuff above but the post would be too long.

One other story real quick...they also claimed you didnt have to read Miranda Rights on our city arrests since it was just a fine and not a real issue...I said that makes no sense.....they said of course it does! So the first time they try this they arrest a large group of people probably in the range of 80....a few plead guilty right away just to get it over with while the other ones had to have the whole thing dropped cause no one read miranda rights hahah....so did they go back and drop the fines of the guys who plead guilty right away? Nope they were ignorant of the law and the cops played on it. It is like this everywhere....its all about making money.

projectbane

JanAmosComenius
OP, you did not respond to this post. So again: How is it possible that US have largest prison population not only per capita but also absolutely? It est larger then totalitarian China with 4 times+ larger population? Are Americans natural born criminals or are US criminals so lame?

Apologies for not replying!! trying to read all the responses and decipher some of the irrelevant and nonsensical aspects of peoples posts is not only time consuming but is pause enough for the proverbial shaking of the head.

Your first two points could be linked together (the per capita and the jailing for profit) im not saying they are or are not but yes these two things are a cause for concern. However, again quite possibly America having the largest population of prisoners etc could boil down to simple criminal behavior due to many different reasons or lots of reasons combined. For example, could it be possible that certain types of Amercians are criminally minded? OR could it be that the POLICE force in certain areas of America are that much BETTER at their jobs and catching more criminals? These are two very plausible reasons????

I will have to say that it could be a mix of private prisons (therefore corrupt companies not government or police) trying to make a profit from jailing more people!! And a mix of police being more efficient in their work and use of the large budget allocated to the service yearly.

Whenever private companies are involved it seems to me that regardless of market and product they will find a way to bend the rules and corrupt the system. This is not down to a police State or government corruption but a possible lack of oversight and trusting these companies too much!

I'll try to pinpoint your response:
1. there are more "criminally minded" people in USA then in China (or any other country)
2. US cops are better in catching "criminally minded" then any other police force
First point is obviously BS. May be you mean that more people in USA are driven to conduct felony by society in which they are living. See later.
Second point is without question: US cops are world bests. Everybody know it because everybody watch those stupid CSI: Wherever TV series.

Last two sections can be distilled to simply proposition: There is demand for prisoners so system supply them through rigged laws, corrupted judges and ... innocent police force. You admit that the system is rotten but this and that cop is innocent because he is enforcing rotten system.

Do you see it as consistent thought?

reply to post by projectbane


Thinking like this is dangerous. No, we dont live in a police state, yet. But we are RAPIDLY moving that direction. Every day for the last 20 years it has inched slightly closer.

To shrug off the idea is dangerous.

Germans didnt live in a police state. Until they did. The signs were there, they simply ignored them. Same as has been happening here.

reply to post by projectbane


And here you go. A Gentleperson's Guide to Forum Spies

Just saying if you did work with an agenda, or what have you...That would fit.

reply to post by windcalmer


Really? He has a different opinion than you, so he must be a government shill? The OP does bring up a good point. And it seems that some members agree with him.

Instead of yelling "government shill" like a Jamestown puritan accusing someone of witch craft, why not provide a counter argument? That would be much more productive to this thread than baseless accusations.

And that's all I gotsa say.

reply to post by projectbane


Just because it hasn't happened to you, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Agreed that this is not N.Korea, but it is trying it's damnedest to be so.

How about if it comes straight from the mouth of someone in the NSA?

www.washingtonsblog.com...

Former Top NSA Official: “We Are Now In A Police State”
Posted on December 18, 2013 by WashingtonsBlog
32-year NSA Veteran Who Created Mass Surveillance System Says Government Use of Data Gathered Through Spying “Is a Totalitarian Process”

Bill Binney is the high-level NSA executive who created the agency’s mass surveillance program for digital information. A 32-year NSA veteran widely regarded as a “legend” within the agency, Binney was the senior technical director within the agency and managed thousands of NSA employees.

Binney has been interviewed by virtually all of the mainstream media, including CBS, ABC, CNN, New York Times, USA Today, Fox News, PBS and many others.

Last year, Binney held his thumb and forefinger close together, and said:

We are, like, that far from a turnkey totalitarian state.

But today, Binney told Washington’s Blog that the U.S. has already become a police state.

By way of background, the government is spying on virtually everything we do.

reply to post by cosmicexplorer


Again. It always comes down to the money doesn't it?
They want to know everyones business here and in other coutries not for safety but for power and control in order to better utilize their human units for wealth creation. Think of all the industrial and technological espionage they do on other coutries.

reply to post by projectbane

My reason is this.....for a man who signed a confidentially agreement his word means NOTHING, therefore his creditability to ME is suspect. Because, most "whisleblowers" have or had some grievance public or not. He left the NSA shortly after 9/11 in fact a month and a half after!

I believe public spying amped up 3 days after the event. What's the point of this point?

It is Saturday and I've been watching cartoons. Officer Bob does a good job of explaining the 'police state' in the US.

kx12x
reply to post by windcalmer

 

Really? He has a different opinion than you, so he must be a government shill? The OP does bring up a good point. And it seems that some members agree with him.

Instead of yelling "government shill" like a Jamestown puritan accusing someone of witch craft, why not provide a counter argument? That would be much more productive to this thread than baseless accusations.

And that's all I gotsa say.

Well it looks like to me he just posted the guidelines so the reader can read those and make a decision for themselves. Don't put words in his mouth, that's all i gotta say. And op does not bring up a good point. He contradicts himself half way through. And you must be reading a different thread. I don't see much support here

reply to post by projectbane


Concerning the collection of data by federal agencies mentioned by Binney, Washington’s Blog added that:

“By way of background, the government is spying on virtually everything we do.”

“All of the information gained by the NSA through spying is then shared with federal, state and local agencies, and they are using that information to prosecute petty crimes such as drugs and taxes. The agencies are instructed to intentionally “launder” the information gained through spying, i.e. to pretend that they got the information in a more legitimate way … and to hide that from defense attorneys and judges.”

www.cnsnews.com...



Like I said , the " Police State " is on the Verge of being Created if the American people as a Whole don't do something about it .....

Zanti Misfit
reply to post by projectbane

 

Concerning the collection of data by federal agencies mentioned by Binney, Washington’s Blog added that:

“By way of background, the government is spying on virtually everything we do.”

“All of the information gained by the NSA through spying is then shared with federal, state and local agencies, and they are using that information to prosecute petty crimes such as drugs and taxes. The agencies are instructed to intentionally “launder” the information gained through spying, i.e. to pretend that they got the information in a more legitimate way … and to hide that from defense attorneys and judges.”

www.cnsnews.com...



Like I said , the " Police State " is on the Verge of being Created if the American people as a Whole don't do something about it .....

My bro was telling me about that, he called it Parallel Construction. Scary stuff
en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by Sremmos80


I thought this thread was about the U.S. not being a police state?

Well it looks like to me he just posted the guidelines so the reader can read those and make a decision for themselves. Don't put words in his mouth, that's all i gotta say.

from windcalmer's post:

Just saying if you did work with an agenda, or what have you...That would fit

Take a closer look, at the bold letters. He is passively claiming the OP is a government shill, instead of directly. I don't think it was necessary to post the "guidelines" in this thread, anyway.

And op does not bring up a good point. He contradicts himself half way through. And you must be reading a different thread. I don't see much support here

I agree with the OP for the most part, I know how some people like to pretend we live in Nazi Germany and they're the rebelion, but at this time in the U.S. things aren't nearly as bad. We don't exactly live in Freedomville, Dowhateveryouwant anymore, but we do not live in an actual police state.

Answer me this, have feds ever shown up at your door and thrown you into prison for criticizing the government? Never happened to me. And ATS isn't exactly an obscure/hidden website that the government doesn't know about. Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded.

Also, I'm pretty sure I can buy a firearm anytime I want. If we look at history, the government would have us all disarmed long before things go full police state.


Is there a lot of government overreach? Sure. But that doesn't equate to a police state.

reply to post by kx12x


Yes we are not full blown but yes there was a kid taken out of school by police for his facebook post, I was a victim of police piling 30k worth of charges that didn't even make it to the first arraignment. As posted above, there is a 100 mile "Constitution free zone" WTF is that??? It is happening. No we are not Nazi Germany... yet. If ANY ones liberties are being violated, we ALL are having our rights violated.