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Here comes the ObamaCare Bailout less than a month after it is implemented..1 Trillion Dollars...

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posted on Jan, 14 2014 @ 04:29 AM
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proximo

zeroBelief

beezzer
reply to post by zeroBelief
 


I don't see how this will improve upon anything.

People will be paying more for poorer service.

This is single-payer.

If you have any idea as to how this might improve upon the system, please elucidate!



I am no businessman. I work with computers. I do things in a modal sense of reality. The intricacies of a "deal" are beyond me. I'm far too tempted to tell someone to go and s#$%w themselves.

However, we needed a change.

What we got was crap....but, it was a START for change. We had no other option being provided...and hopefully, this will evolve into something good. I am no naive child, as I said, I hope this leads to real change in a positive manner for all of us here in the US.

But, I can tell you one thing. It certainly wasn't going to happen if we stayed the way we were. I see this as simply being the first of many steps. At least, that's what I hope it is.

And don't get me wrong....I am the first person to tell you how messed up it was. $600Million for a freaking website? Crap...I can do EVERYTHING needed to create such a website, and do it for well under $1 million, and be able to deliver palpable and working results in under 30 days. Web coding, underlying databases, ERP system to handle the transactions, ETL to handle inbound data from the medical and pharmaceutical field, outbound interface files to connect with external systems, even SOAP based messaging on a publish/subscribe setup on the web services, you name it, I can do it. That's what I do for a living. So yes, we were screwed and we can still feel hands on our hips from behind on that one.

Accenture taking it over? Might as well ask the fox to guard the henhouse. I've already posted my thoughts about Accenture as I used to work for them, and have worked with them far too many times to count.


Again, and one last time.....nothing was going to improve the way things were. Change, creates at least some degree of momentum. Hopefully, this momentum will carry through into something worthwhile. That is all I said, and all I meant.


This doesn't make any sense, change for the worse does not equate to change for the better. I will say this for the 10th time on ATS, the democrats had both houses and the presidency. They could have passed any healthcare law they wanted - THEY WANTED OBAMACARE. They wanted it because they get the most bribes for helping out corporations and not the people and therefore that is the interests they serve.

If obamacare is creating any momentum it is for its repeal, and a return to our crappy old system, which is in fact much better than obamacare, but still quite crappy.


You're just stuck in a a pattern of hearing yourself. And enjoying it.

Enjoy your life!




posted on Jan, 14 2014 @ 04:30 AM
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amfirst1
reply to post by zeroBelief
 


Lol nothing good will come from Obamacare. The only thing that got better with it is more government control. The old system wasn't great, but u don't trade a Kia for a pile of shi7t.
edit on 13-1-2014 by amfirst1 because: (no reason given)



I am SO utterly pleased at all the laughter I've gotten out of this thread!

Not just from the "debate", but from the members!!!

Really and truly, thank you for all the chuckles!

edit on 14-1-2014 by zeroBelief because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 14 2014 @ 04:46 AM
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It would seem that a few of you are stuck on an idea or two...

"First of all, that any change that doesn't get you what you want is necessarily only going to be bad"

and, my personal favorite "If you don't agree with me, you MUST be one of THEM".


Allow me to explain.

I am a programmer. I fix problems. And I'll tell you, when you are trying to fix a problem, you constantly look at the results. You never nail it the VERY first time. It takes change after change, tweak after tweak. Even the smallest change is chipping away at the problem. Maybe, as we've experienced here, it was blatantly a change in the wrong way. BUT, it is change, and we are trying to fix the problem.

I am not so naive as to think even for one second that the Obama plan was an overall good one. Nor am I so naive as to think the Democratic Party that forced this down our throat had our best interests at heart. There, I've said it. Can we move on now and start discussing this?

Perhaps the problem here is the word I am using, "Change". Perhaps it is too inured in Obama's vocabulary so as to be used effectively by anyone else without causing parallels to be drawn. Not sure, but, that could be a good deal of what we're dealing with here.

Second of all, the "If you don't agree with me, you MUST be one of THEM".

So many folks in the USA are caught up in the idea that if you're not A you must be B. Just because I do not agree wholeheartedly with a Republican doesn't mean I am a Democrat. Nor does it mean that I want or am asking for precisely what a Democrat is asking for. Truthfully, a Democrat would be saying the same things about me that any Republican would be saying about me right about now.

What I am calling for is a change. The system we had wasn't serving everyone the way it needed to. The system we have now is still crap, and even more so. But, as the saying goes, you do not throw the baby out with the bath water.

I also acknowledge and fully admit that the pricing of the new plan is complete crap as well. I personally know many folks who are screwed by this, paying far more than they had to.

And, I know that I am lucky to only see my premium go up a relatively small amount.

So, one might simply say I am focusing on the positive, rather than bitching about the overtly negative. We got screwed. Royally. But, it can be turned around.


edit on 14-1-2014 by zeroBelief because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 14 2014 @ 04:51 AM
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reply to post by zeroBelief
 


I'm so happy that we could provide some amusement for you.

Allow me to put it into context.

Imagine our healthcare problem is like a leaky faucet.
We hire a plumber to fix the problem.

His solution?

Break all the television sets in the house with a hammer.

Now we still have a leaky faucet, plus an associated host of problems that were not even anticipated.

Do you comprehend our ire now?



posted on Jan, 14 2014 @ 05:33 AM
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reply to post by beezzer
 


There are non so blind as those who will not see.......a line from a Moody Blues song.



posted on Jan, 14 2014 @ 05:40 AM
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reply to post by Tarzan the apeman.
 


The reason for Obamacare is simple, in my humble opinion.

There were/are 30+ millions of Americans without healthcare.
(thus the drive for Obamacare)
Instead of looking for ways to lower the costs of healthcare government came up with the solution for everyone to pay for the high costs of healthcare.

If government had looked for solutions that would have lowered costs, more people would have gotten quality care, more people would have had more money, and government would never be in control of it all.



posted on Jan, 14 2014 @ 06:08 AM
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Healthcare has never been affordable. Doctors are as greedy as lawyers. Give me a break.



posted on Jan, 14 2014 @ 06:12 AM
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reply to post by beezzer
 


Health care is expensive because of greedy doctors and careless doctors who have to pay high premiums on malpractice insurance. Hey maybe if they were not so arrogant and careless they wouldn't need malpractice insurance. I say arrogant because they think they know it all.



posted on Jan, 14 2014 @ 06:23 AM
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BurbGirl378

Obamacare is not going to be repealed because it is what the Corporations want. Corporations want low cost labor that they don't have to insure. They can then work employees to death without any liability for the cost of their health care. The Health Insurers pick up all of the liability and spread the risk over the majority of workers in the insurance pools. The Health Insurance Corporation's losses are covered by the Government and Taxpayers because Big Business and the Corporations no longer want the responsibility of caring for their employees. Workers have become a disposable asset.

Unless you "own the means of production" you are a worker, and therefore disposable. A shareholder in a large corporation would be construed as owning "a share" of the means of production. Return On Investment is the primary goal. Insuring an employee's health is a risk Wall Street is no longer willing to finance.
edit on 14-1-2014 by BurbGirl378 because: punctuation



I hear you.




Cost externalizing is a socio-economical term describing how a business maximizes its profits by off loading indirect costs and forcing negative effects to a third party.

wikipedia / cost externaliizing





In economics, an externality is the cost or benefit that affects a party who did not choose to incur that cost or benefit.

wikipedia / externality


... so does Wikipedia.

Mike Grouchy
edit on 14-1-2014 by mikegrouchy because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 14 2014 @ 06:52 AM
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AutumnWitch657
reply to post by beezzer
 


Health care is expensive because of greedy doctors and careless doctors who have to pay high premiums on malpractice insurance. Hey maybe if they were not so arrogant and careless they wouldn't need malpractice insurance. I say arrogant because they think they know it all.


Doctors may a high premium because people sue them.

Yes, doctors sometimes make mistakes. It must be frustrating to someone like you who has never made an error at work.

High costs are also associated with lawyers who take advantage of the medical industry.

High prices are also associated with people who don't take the responsibility to pay for routine things like check ups and such.

But lets place all the blame on the doctors, because they make so much and are so greedy.



posted on Jan, 14 2014 @ 06:53 AM
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AutumnWitch657
Healthcare has never been affordable. Doctors are as greedy as lawyers. Give me a break.


You must be young.

There was a time, not so long ago, that people simply paid out of pocket for routine medical issues and may have had insurance for catastrophic events only.



posted on Jan, 14 2014 @ 07:34 AM
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beezzer
reply to post by zeroBelief
 


I'm so happy that we could provide some amusement for you.

Allow me to put it into context.

Imagine our healthcare problem is like a leaky faucet.
We hire a plumber to fix the problem.

His solution?

Break all the television sets in the house with a hammer.

Now we still have a leaky faucet, plus an associated host of problems that were not even anticipated.

Do you comprehend our ire now?


Okydokey...let's just roll back the clock....My family is good. Sure, why the hell not.



posted on Jan, 14 2014 @ 07:45 AM
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zeroBelief

beezzer
reply to post by zeroBelief
 


I'm so happy that we could provide some amusement for you.

Allow me to put it into context.

Imagine our healthcare problem is like a leaky faucet.
We hire a plumber to fix the problem.

His solution?

Break all the television sets in the house with a hammer.

Now we still have a leaky faucet, plus an associated host of problems that were not even anticipated.

Do you comprehend our ire now?


Okydokey...let's just roll back the clock....My family is good. Sure, why the hell not.


The majority of Americans WISH they could roll back the clock.



posted on Jan, 14 2014 @ 07:58 AM
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reply to post by beezzer
 




The majority of Americans WISH they could roll back the clock.

Oh, indeed. I would like to roll it back to the time that you referred to earlier, when health care costs were low enough for most things to be paid out of pocket.

In those days, technology was very low... x-rays were cutting edge. Medical malpractice suits were unheard of.

In the end, we still die, and the technology that we have today adds just a few years for most patients... and they are not always 'quality' years that they add.

Technology's big saving grace (IMO) is when it allows a child that would have died early to live a normal length life.



posted on Jan, 14 2014 @ 08:18 AM
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reply to post by zeroBelief
 


"I am a programmer. I fix problems. And I'll tell you, when you are trying to fix a problem, you constantly look at the results. You never nail it the VERY first time. It takes change after change, tweak after tweak. Even the smallest change is chipping away at the problem. Maybe, as we've experienced here, it was blatantly a change in the wrong way. BUT, it is change, and we are trying to fix the problem"

But all of that change comes pre-release. You test it. You have the eventual users test it. If you were a programmer and you produced the Obamacare website you would be out of a job. Period. I think you can agree and we spent 100 of millions on it. Just for the site!!! HOw about just using some Oracle based software. I mean, even Peoplesoft and Sage can get you enrolled easier than this garbage. I know this because I have personal experience with it front and back end.

Unless, you were a contractor who did that so that you could bleed and squeeze those that you created the software for. Selling them future service releases that should have been part of the core product. Obamacare is a failure on multiple fronts. Sometimes, a good idea is one that should stay a good idea until it can actually work. Not something that should be 'passed' and we will take a look later. Just like QA would not say "let the build ride" and fix it later. If they do, they will not be there long and the software will die.

With software, you release it and then 'fix' what is complained about the most and hope most do not complain, right?


The best of intentions can have the worst results and we are seeing that now.






edit on 01am31amf0000002014-01-14T08:19:02-06:000802 by matafuchs because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 14 2014 @ 08:36 AM
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beezzer

zeroBelief

beezzer
reply to post by zeroBelief
 


I'm so happy that we could provide some amusement for you.

Allow me to put it into context.

Imagine our healthcare problem is like a leaky faucet.
We hire a plumber to fix the problem.

His solution?

Break all the television sets in the house with a hammer.

Now we still have a leaky faucet, plus an associated host of problems that were not even anticipated.

Do you comprehend our ire now?


Okydokey...let's just roll back the clock....My family is good. Sure, why the hell not.


The majority of Americans WISH they could roll back the clock.



So, why not fight for impeachment? All I'm hearing is alot of whining.



posted on Jan, 14 2014 @ 08:40 AM
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zeroBelief

beezzer

zeroBelief

beezzer
reply to post by zeroBelief
 


I'm so happy that we could provide some amusement for you.

Allow me to put it into context.

Imagine our healthcare problem is like a leaky faucet.
We hire a plumber to fix the problem.

His solution?

Break all the television sets in the house with a hammer.

Now we still have a leaky faucet, plus an associated host of problems that were not even anticipated.

Do you comprehend our ire now?


Okydokey...let's just roll back the clock....My family is good. Sure, why the hell not.


The majority of Americans WISH they could roll back the clock.



So, why not fight for impeachment? All I'm hearing is alot of whining.

Do see any indication that the Senate would vote to impeach the Emperor?
It would be a huge waste of time in view of the current political landscape.



posted on Jan, 14 2014 @ 08:40 AM
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matafuchs
reply to post by zeroBelief
 


"I am a programmer. I fix problems. And I'll tell you, when you are trying to fix a problem, you constantly look at the results. You never nail it the VERY first time. It takes change after change, tweak after tweak. Even the smallest change is chipping away at the problem. Maybe, as we've experienced here, it was blatantly a change in the wrong way. BUT, it is change, and we are trying to fix the problem"

But all of that change comes pre-release. You test it. You have the eventual users test it. If you were a programmer and you produced the Obamacare website you would be out of a job. Period. I think you can agree and we spent 100 of millions on it. Just for the site!!! HOw about just using some Oracle based software. I mean, even Peoplesoft and Sage can get you enrolled easier than this garbage. I know this because I have personal experience with it front and back end.

Unless, you were a contractor who did that so that you could bleed and squeeze those that you created the software for. Selling them future service releases that should have been part of the core product. Obamacare is a failure on multiple fronts. Sometimes, a good idea is one that should stay a good idea until it can actually work. Not something that should be 'passed' and we will take a look later. Just like QA would not say "let the build ride" and fix it later. If they do, they will not be there long and the software will die.

With software, you release it and then 'fix' what is complained about the most and hope most do not complain, right?


The best of intentions can have the worst results and we are seeing that now.






edit on 01am31amf0000002014-01-14T08:19:02-06:000802 by matafuchs because: (no reason given)


You, my friend, are somehow construing that I am implying this rational logic was followed by the cronyistic pals of Michelle who set this debacle up. I assure you, I was not implying this, at all.

I also stated I could get it done for $1million. Far, far less than the $677Million they bilked us all for.

And I am far and away acquainted with the idea that something gets well tested before it goes into production. In my typical experience, it is the business that pushes timelines and cries foul when someone like myself suggests that the business, who ultimately owns the process, actually commit to ownership and TEST the damned thing.



posted on Jan, 14 2014 @ 08:48 AM
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butcherguy

zeroBelief

beezzer

zeroBelief

beezzer
reply to post by zeroBelief
 


I'm so happy that we could provide some amusement for you.

Allow me to put it into context.

Imagine our healthcare problem is like a leaky faucet.
We hire a plumber to fix the problem.

His solution?

Break all the television sets in the house with a hammer.

Now we still have a leaky faucet, plus an associated host of problems that were not even anticipated.

Do you comprehend our ire now?


Okydokey...let's just roll back the clock....My family is good. Sure, why the hell not.


The majority of Americans WISH they could roll back the clock.



So, why not fight for impeachment? All I'm hearing is alot of whining.

Do see any indication that the Senate would vote to impeach the Emperor?
It would be a huge waste of time in view of the current political landscape.


Alright then, if the majority of the US is so aggreviously pissed off at this situation...why not form a mob, and demand his ousting that way? Or, work the wonderful system, vote out the Senate and the Congress, and place the political talking heads in those positions who'll do your majority bidding ?



posted on Jan, 14 2014 @ 08:49 AM
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reply to post by zeroBelief
 


Yup, welcome to the website that is 90% Republicans lol.

Stand proud and tall because you have an opinion about a CHANGE, they hate change.

Doesn't matter what platform you belong, soon as you say anything positive about republican's opposing views. you are labelled!



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