Abomination Of Desolation:(the Gay Marriage Issue)

Originally posted by Otts
USAWrestler - Actually, I'm not an atheist. I was baptized Catholic, but no longer believe. My girlfriend, who is a believing and churchgoing Catholic, calls me a "seeker". I can't believe in no God. I do believe in a higher power. I just do not believe in the story of the divinity of Christ, at least not in the way it's told.

However, my girlfriend and I do find that we have very similar values, when it comes to loving your friends and family, forgiving your enemies, being charitable and generous, and seeking peace.

OK I can live with that. I'm not a big fan of Catholicism either. Seems more like ritual than relationship.

Originally posted by Lastday Prophet

Gays feel "LUST" They can "NEVER" experience the birth of a child "THEY" produced and watch they as they grow and develop. All people with children see how certain trates and abilities are passed through the genes, there is a certain connection that only you and you children have, it is not the same as when they are adopted, there is no connection within the genes proving a "DEVINE DESIGN" something two Men or two Women can "NEVER" acheive

Really, a lesbian who uses atificial insemination or IVF won't actually give birth? So, it's all a dream, that pain of labour, that first squeal?

As a father just beginning on that journey I find your hijacking of my status to support your bigotry offensive.

You're also saying that those couples who are forced to adopt by infertility are not natural, that they are not conforming to God's design (and presumably have chosen not to). As a person with adopted relatives you make me want to momentarily forget my Christian pacifism and smack you one (for about twenty mintues worth of mementarily).

It's probably okay to eat shellfish, you doubt God will send someone to Hell for it, but he'll definitely damn you for being gay.

Either you accept all of the bible or none of it. Which is it?

Me, I just follow the Messiah's message and hope that on Judgement Day the good deeds of my life will outweigh the bad. There are only three quotes I'll use to justify the acceptability, or not, of an action or position.

Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.

"Vengeance is mine" sayeth the Lord.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

edit:sp

[edit on 4-12-2004 by HowlrunnerIV]

Originally posted by Lastday Prophet

Ps 59:8 But thou, O LORD, shalt laugh at them; thou shalt have all the heathen in derision.

Now you're telling God what he's going to do? Who are you to tell the Almighty?

Put your quotes into the context in which they were written.

That's a good point. If being gay is really a sin, how much of a sin is it comparitevly. If a gay man or woman continues to pursue sexual relationships but leads an otherwise highly moral life doing many good things for others and basically making the world around them a better place, are they still automatically barred from God and Heaven on passing over. There's many Xtians who proclaim they love God and try to follow his ways, they admit they sin everyday in one form or another but they seem to expect that their failed efforts are enough to give them their pass to paradise yet on the sin of homosexuality there is an assumption of automatic dismissal. Why? The bible does not promote this one sin as worse than many others that we all continue to make on a regular basis so therefore homosexuals will be judged on all their deeds and may even be found less sinful than many Xtians. Can the likes of Ed, TC and LastDay Prophet accept the fact that in this world there almost certainly are practicing homosexuals who morally, are far better, less sinful people than you when everything is taken into account. I'm saying this because the moral aspect is bandied around so often but morally are any here qualified to take the high ground.

Originally posted by Lastday Prophet

The God of Christ is a god of love. He is not a God or anger and revenge.


Make no mistake about it, one day we all will stand before him to be "JUDGED".

Then why don't some of you that follow him take a clue!? Stop bashing and hating people....it's none of your business...your NOT god and you don't have the power to judge other people or what they do.....lately here it's like you have made yourself a little demi god able to condemn and judge other people...

stop sitting yourselves up a pedestal and acting as if your are holier than thou....it's very unbecoming, against your own faith's teaching, and hypocritical!

Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
I Would Like You To Show Me In These Verses Where God Accepts The Gay Lifestyle ! These Are God's Words And Judgment Not Mine

You are a discrace to christianity.
Abusing the bible to suit your racist ideas.
The verses you pasted are not even about homosexuality, and the ones that are, are ripped out of their historical context to support your retarded perception.

I do not live in the illusion that my words can make you aware of your own stupidity, I do hope however, that ATSers realize most christians are not ignorant racists like yourself.


[edit on 4-12-2004 by Jakko]

Originally posted by ubermunche
Can the likes of Ed, TC and LastDay Prophet accept the fact that in this world there almost certainly are practicing homosexuals who morally, are far better, less sinful people than you when everything is taken into account.

They are retards.

(oh and this is not ment as a personal attack, it's ment as 3 personal attacks)

Originally posted by Jakko

Originally posted by ubermunche
Can the likes of Ed, TC and LastDay Prophet accept the fact that in this world there almost certainly are practicing homosexuals who morally, are far better, less sinful people than you when everything is taken into account.

They are retards.

(oh and this is not ment as a personal attack, it's ment as 3 personal attacks)

LOL I feel like an idiot, as I failed to read the context of your post and what you were quoting. Please ignore this comment.

[edit on 4-12-2004 by USAWrestler]

[edit on 4-12-2004 by USAWrestler]

Jakko - in support to your point, my two lesbian friends are among the most decent people I know. They wouldn't hurt a fly, and they mind their own business. They don't really want to share stuff about their sexuality with their colleagues (but then, most heterosexual people don't, either).

There's a lot being said about how gays are those effeminate men or female butches who dress weird, talk weird and wear fetish stuff. Actually... I believe that to be a minority.

A lot of gay couples believe, as do heterosexual couples, that what they do in their bedroom is private. They just live their lives, trying to spread good around them (one of those friends of mine is editor in chief for a magazine by and for homeless people), trying to harm no one.

So they're not the ones causing a disturbance. The majority of gay people are quite normal people who go about their daily lives like, love and hate, have hopes and ambitions, all like the rest of us.

The ones causing a disturbance are the pseudo-righteous people who would interfere with how these people run their lives, either by putting legislative stumbling blocks on their path, or trying to stir up reprobation and condemnation.

The most disturbing thing about these Bible-thumping Christians is the rabid hate that fills them. I suspect that in fact they are so angry and intolerant that they look to the Bible to justify their hatred and intolerance toward others. Most laughable is when they pull the words from The Bible to prove the Bible. I believe in God, not because I choose to, but because I inherently feel that one exists. I don't need any man written book to preach to me that my moral inclination is knowing that killing for example is wrong, so I certainly do not understand nor can I accept these evil Bible-thumpers suggesting that gays and lesbians engage in sexual activity despite knowing in their hearts and minds that it is wrong.


Lastday prophet, in ATS I have seen Christians defend their continued sinning under the ruse of confessing and or that Jesus died to end all sins, I would wager that either you have no conscience or no capacity to understand just how much hatred you speak, or that you are one of those Christians who confess and then carry on again. And I also doubt that you would know and gays or have watched the very same people you are so openly hostile toward, dying. For I certainly cannot see you finding sudden empathy to be in their presence and not preach to them that they are about to descend into hell and spend an eternity stoking Lucifer's fire, or maybe that's stroking. And I sure as hell, pardon the pun, don't see someone on their deathbed or their families allowing you to be in their presence.

I am sure that most of these intolerant and hateful people know and probably like many people who hide their homosexuality, and think of them of fine upstanding citizens of good moral character. But were they to find out about the lifestyle, the like would turn to hate.

This Christian intolerance is so ungodly, useless, disgusting, and unrealistic that all hermaohrodites would have to be considered homosexual, by the medical field, by the homophobes and by the creator him/herself. Did any of them ever stop to consider that it is believed all humans for the first 30 days in the womb are female?

This is just another in a long lineup of homosexual bashing threads allowed to thrive under "social issues" while a thread on a far more socially and hurtful taboo issue; paedophilia, was shut down entirely on the ill-placed conspiracy wing rather than being moved. Makes one wonder if we actually have a functioning moral compass.

Originally posted by crusader
I am sick. Totally of gay people wantin rights as hetrosexual couples. and also the supposedly clergy who are supposed to be close to God permitting and also marrying man and man or woman and woman. This could be the abomination of desolation the bible has spoken about. the descration of God's holy places can;t be allowed to continue. And I brelieve as the bible says it's an abomination for mankind to lie with mankind..
feedback welcome...

I think Politics@ATS has reached its quota of intolerant rednecks. try some other board.

There were many attacks aimed at me and some others, I will use this one to answer you !

That's a good point. If being gay is really a sin, how much of a sin is it comparitevly. If a gay man or woman continues to pursue sexual relationships but leads an otherwise highly moral life doing many good things for others and basically making the world around them a better place( How can you live a highly moral life and commit this Abomination at the same time ? ), are they still automatically barred from God and Heaven on passing over.

(LDP)
Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb�s book of life.

It Clearly states that anyone that worketh abomination, or maketh a lie shall not enter the City, whether you like it or not, this is the way it is, so I would suggest you turn from your wickedness if you want to one day enter the Glorious City Of God.

quote;
There's many Xtians who proclaim they love God and try to follow his ways, they admit they sin everyday in one form or another but they seem to expect that their failed efforts are enough to give them their pass to paradise

(LDP)
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

1Jo 1:5 � This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 � If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

As christians we are admonished by God to avoid sin, but if we fall(sin) we are covered by the blood of Jesus. This is in no way a "License" to sin, or to "Practice Sin" ( Habitual Sinning or Living a Sinful Lifestyle ) Such a "lifestlye" is not acceptible unto God. We are to do our absolute best to shun sinful habits if we want to enter into the city through the "Gates"
Re 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Re 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable (GAYS), and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

If Your Lifestyle Fits In Any Of The Catergories Above, You Will Be Cast Into The Lake Of Fire

yet on the sin of homosexuality there is an assumption of automatic dismissal. Why? The bible does not promote this one sin as worse than many others ( Yes it does, see the verses below) that we all continue to make on a regular basis so therefore homosexuals will be judged on all their deeds and may even be found less sinful than many Xtians. Can the likes of Ed, TC and LastDay Prophet accept the fact that in this world there almost certainly are practicing homosexuals who morally, are far better, less sinful people than you when everything is taken into account. ( How can you consider them "less sinful" when Homosexuality is one of but a few "SINS" that are considered "Worthy Of Death" )

I'm saying this because the moral aspect is bandied around so often but morally are any here qualified to take the high ground.

(LDP)
Eze 3:21 Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul

1Jo 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
1Jo 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.


For those that would suggest that all sin is the same and that the "Punishment" will be the same, the verses above "Clearly" state that there are certain "Sins" that are unto death, while other "Sins" are not unto death

By the way, the persecution is like water on a ducks back, has no effect whatsoever, the joke will be on you for when you stand before God you wil be "Without Excuse", for I have told you the truth and warned you, but you would not listen.

I can't make you drink the water, only lead you to it.

Re 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Re 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
Re 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

1. God gave us the bible as a personal guide.
He did NOT give us the bible so we can smash eachothers head in with it, like you are trying to do.

2. Life is a little bit more complicated than you are attempting to make it.
Your "black and white" approach is most of all based on ignorance (you don't even know what being gay IS) and is only doing damage.

3. Stop judging. Christians are known for their excellent judging capabilities, let's make a difference and show that some christians can do better than that.

I learned a new word yesterday evening... "Bible quarterbacking". Apparently it refers to those who use quotes out of context to justify their beliefs. God knows we've also had a lot of "Quran quarterbacking" by people intent on showing how evil a religion it is.

Says my girlfriend (who has a diploma in Liturgical studies) about this thread, "The Psalms are there for a reason and a context, you don't mess with them."

I've said pretty much all I had to say on this topic. I'm not looking to convince people here that homosexuality is ok... that's a personal judgement that every individual must make. However, if I have a message, it's the following: LEAVE THE GAY PEOPLE ALONE. THEY'VE DONE NOTHING TO YOU. LET THEM BE.

Originally posted by General Zapata

Originally posted by crusader
I am sick. Totally of gay people wantin rights as hetrosexual couples. and also the supposedly clergy who are supposed to be close to God permitting and also marrying man and man or woman and woman. This could be the abomination of desolation the bible has spoken about. the descration of God's holy places can;t be allowed to continue. And I brelieve as the bible says it's an abomination for mankind to lie with mankind..
feedback welcome...

I think Politics@ATS has reached its quota of intolerant rednecks. try some other board.

Nice stereotype there "Pedro".

You people are a joke,
You continually say that we christians bash others with the bible and that we are very judgmental and hateful.

I got news for you,

I did not, nor did any other christian write the Bible. We are only messengers that tell you what it says.


It is God that hath said:

"That men should not lay with men"
"That women should not lay with women"
"That you should not dishonor your body in this manner
"That it is an Abomination"
"That it is worthy of Death

The Christains did not make the rules, we only abide by them

The problem is that you want to live this Abominable Lifestyle and want the Christains to accept it and we won't, and "NEVER" will
The Christians have no Heaven Or Hell to put you in.

GOD DOES and it is Him That You Had Better Fear

I can assure you that when you stand before him you will tell no lies, there shall be weeping and "gnashing of teeth" You have yet to know" true fear"
The day when you stand before him you will know it, "Ye shall tremble and Quake"

So go ahead and believe the devils lie time is short, and a
LAKE OF FIRE AWAITS THEE !

Originally posted by USAWrestler

Originally posted by General Zapata

Originally posted by crusader
I am sick. Totally of gay people wantin rights as hetrosexual couples. and also the supposedly clergy who are supposed to be close to God permitting and also marrying man and man or woman and woman. This could be the abomination of desolation the bible has spoken about. the descration of God's holy places can;t be allowed to continue. And I brelieve as the bible says it's an abomination for mankind to lie with mankind..
feedback welcome...

I think Politics@ATS has reached its quota of intolerant rednecks. try some other board.

Nice stereotype there "Pedro".

haha...I thought so

( How can you live a highly moral life and commit this Abomination at the same time ? )

Oh I don't know, help the poor, tend to sick babies, do your elderly neighbours shopping. You know the kind of morals that actually make a difference in the world rather than the self righteous posturing kind that only appeal to control freaks and religious elitists.

It Clearly states that anyone that worketh abomination, or maketh a lie shall not enter the City, whether you like it or not, this is the way it is, so I would suggest you turn from your wickedness if you want to one day enter the Glorious City Of God.

And I suggest you see a phsyciatrist. BTW do you support that other book that proclaims to be the word of God the Q'ran, the bits were God tells muslims to kill all unbelievers (Xtians) after all it's Gods word written in a book, same thing.

Re 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable (GAYS), and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

If Your Lifestyle Fits In Any Of The Catergories Above, You Will Be Cast Into The Lake Of Fire

And it's made so clear who the 'abominable' actually are that you have to clarify it in brackets and capital letters. Surely some reason for doubt no.

( How can you consider them "less sinful" when Homosexuality is one of but a few "SINS" that are considered "Worthy Of Death" )

Is peadophilia one of those sins (you know marrying twelve year old girls off to dirty old men.) They did that all the time in those days too didn't they and quite legally.

Ad hominem rants and tired old scriptural cherry picking.

Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
You people are a joke,
You continually say that we christians bash others with the bible and that we are very judgmental and hateful.

As you aren't a christian they aren't talking about you- so stop calling your self one.

Originally posted by Lastday ProphetI did not, nor did any other christian write the Bible. We are only messengers that tell you what it says.

As a REAL christian, I know that the bible has been "written" by many other Christian men. I also know that It has been corrupted people who commit "vile" practices such as yourself. Or did you think that your copy of the bible was taken to mount Sinai and hand written by God himself?

Originally posted by Lastday ProphetIt is God that hath said:
That men should not lie with men"

Nice, but no he clearly said that Levite Priests should not practice foriegn pagan secual rituals. Your deliberate mistranslation to the contrary. The Levites are one of the 12 lost tribes of Isreal, meaning THEIR LONG GONE. But nice bit of heresyBtW. Should get you an Eternity in Hell.

Originally posted by Lastday Prophet"That women should not lay with women"

The bible doesn't say this anywhere. You just want it to so you read in between the lines and expect us to swallow your bunk.
Guess what?
We aren't.

Originally posted by Lastday Prophet "That you should not dishonor your body in this manner

In what manner? Nice incomplete quote, not like you would take that out of context, OH Wait it is!

Originally posted by Lastday Prophet "That it is an Abomination"

Wrong! That word is a mistranlation and being on ATS you should know that by know. But of course you choose to ignore the TRUTH as it doesn't match what you want to believe. Well, If you look back at what you've quoted you'll notice that twisting the bible to simply back what you want to believe is not looked kindly upon by God. My God, that is, as you Obviously worship SATAN

Originally posted by Lastday ProphetThe Christains did not make the rules, we only abide by them

Well, you got the first part right anyway.

Originally posted by Lastday ProphetThe problem is that you want to live this Abominable Lifestyle

You have said several time that anyone who's against you is "Gay" Guess what? Not everyone is. Some of us are just Good Christians. Unlike you antiChristians.

Originally posted by Lastday Prophet and want the Christains to accept it and we won't, and "NEVER" will

As you aren't a Christian,please don't say what we believe in as you cannot speak for us.

Originally posted by Lastday ProphetThe Christians have no Heaven Or Hell to put you in.

That's right, WE Christians don't have a hell to put sinners like Last Day Prophet in.

Originally posted by Lastday ProphetI can assure you that when you stand before him you will tell no lies, there shall be weeping and "gnashing of teeth" You have yet to know" true fear"

You are judging people, again. It is not your place to do so. God will do this, so don't act like you have any right to . And don't try to deny that you are judging us, iether. The comments about "weeping"and "gnashing of teeth" are an obvious reference to your judgement that we will burn in hell.

Originally posted by Lastday ProphetThe day when you stand before him you will know it, "Ye shall tremble and Quake"

I can assure you that this aplies more to you that any one else here.

Originally posted by Lastday ProphetSo go ahead and believe the devils lie

No we arent' going to believe your mater lie any more than we believe in yours.

Originally posted by Lastday Prophettime is short, and a
LAKE OF FIRE AWAITS THEE !

No, it awaits sinners llike you and your fellow SATAN Worshipers.
____________________________________________________________
You keep blantantly liing about what the bible actually says. And then acting like thats OK even though you accuse of us doing the same thing.
I hope you like an Eternity in the Lake of Fire.

You keep saying that Gays are Damned, and then wonder why we think your judging people. It's because you are. You act liek you are trying to jsut warn them, your not. You are judging them. You are not better and in fact are probalbly worse than them.

At least they don't try to assign their own petty emotions to God.

Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
But no, you "Perverted Ones" say it "FEELS GOOD"I don't understand you people, but than again I do, You are "POSSESSED" by Spirits of Perversion and need to be "Delivered"

You obviously mean demons right?
You meant to say we are possessed by demons yes?
Well demons can't say"Christ is Lord"
Christ is Lord.
I have said this out loud as well as type it. Therefore I am not possessed and you are wrong, again. Then again you've yet to be right.

[edit on 5-12-2004 by I_AM_that_I_AM]