Originally posted by USAWrestler
If everyone on planet Earth was gay, then what hope is there for the future of our species?

irrelevant to the question at hand. However, humans do not need to have sex to reproduce. Besides, this isn't much of a problem anyway, and if a thousand years from now everyone is gay, they'd use technological reproductive techniques.

For the human cloning enthusiasts out there......no

There are other technological reproductive techniques out there besides cloning, in fact the only technological reproductive techniques actually used are non-cloning techniques. They are effective and fully legal now, and if anything more widespread use would end any sort of 'population explosion' problems.

and you are wrong then you have NO hope whatsoever of a happy ever after

Actually if an atheist is wrong then it requires that whatever god is out there be one that 'punishes' atheists and non-beleivers. This puts atheists in the same boat as basically every other religion that was 'wrong'

if you believe in an all powerful being in a religion of your choosing you have less of a chance of being tormented for all of eternity.

No, you don't actually have less of a chance, because you might be beleiving in the wrong all powerful and punishing god, or have made some other mistake.

Not to mention the fact that you will likely be reunited with loved ones that you knew during your physical life.

If god wants people to be reuinited, he's not going to exclude atheists merely for not having faith. Then again he might. Then again he might only put christians in hell. Then again, maybe only mormons get into heaven. Who knows right? If atheists are wrong and conservative christians are right then atheists go to hell. If conservative christians are wrong and muslims are right then the conservative christians go to hell. Mere beleif in 'god' doesn't get on into heaven, especially if its the 'wrong god'. Your 'safe bet' is not a safe bet at all.

I KNOW that God is all forgiving, per the New Testament

You have a beleif, and you are convinced of it. Nothing more.

I still however have a problem acknowledging a couple as being ordained as married under my God's eyes though.

Your, or anyone else's theological problems, are irrelevant and do not have the authority of law. Muslims beleive in polygamy. Does that mean it should be allowed? What if they were the majority of people in the country? The bible doesn't allow divorce, jesus himself speaks directly against it, yet its perfectly legal. THe bible is not the source of law in the US, nor should it.

It seems like the argument of the anti-gay issue is that sex is specifically for procreation of the species and not for pleasure. Pleasure is allegedly just a side effect. So only situations where procreation is the intent of sex is allowed by God. If that's true then only intercourse is ok. All of you people who practice oral sex are in deep trouble. Oh, and if you have sex using any kind of birth control (thereby short-circuiting procreation) you are also violating the Bible (over-population is apparently ok). And like the gays, people who cannot conceive should not be allowed to marry (since they cannot procreate). Someone else on this thread made that point earlier. And whoever it was that made the outrageous statement that AIDS is primarily transmitted by gay men should be forever banned to the continent of Africa. What an outgrageously ignorant statement! Don't these people do any research before they make these statements?? Look people, it's the same old thing: people use the Bible to make their particular case selectively chossing the (translated) passages that support their position and carefully avoiding those that do not. Celebrate Christmas do you? You're breaking the rules of the Bible. Easter? the same. The argument that the New Testament negates the earlier rules set down by the Bible is specious at best. Remember, the New Testament is a collection of SOME edited, local writings assembled by the highly politically centric early ROMAN church under the direct control of the government. 'The Rules' are clearly and plainly outlined in Leviticus and Deuteronomy. And God, in his infinite wisdom, decided to specially provide 'The Ten Commandments' --- the most important rules of all! Any mention of sex? Any 'thou shall not be gay'?? No. So people get their panties in a twist over the gay issue but it's ok to sell a Virgin Mary grilled cheese sandwich on eBay, stick plastic 'images' on the dashboards of cars and all over their homes. The church itself is FULL of images (violations of TC #2). These same people go to church on Sunday (violation of TC #4). And on and on.

No, the gay 'thing' is not a hormonal imbalance; no gays are not the result of being abused; and yes, there are plenty of instances of 'gay' activities in other species besides humans. Do some research before you make statements like you have. Oh yea, and remember TC #9 beofre it bites you on the ass.

If you're going to tell me that being gay is wrong "because the Bible says so", then I have one word for you: HYPOCRITE! You can't go around judging people with the Bible as your authority, when the Bible specifically says, (and repeats), "Judge not lest ye be judged." Those of you who are against homosexual marriages are members of two groups, (both, not either one). The first, as I mentioned, is hypocrites. Preach all you want, but all you're doing is digging your own grave.

When you're six feet under a pile of judgement cast upon you by your own sorry judgements and stereotypes, you'll be wishing you had just followed your own advice: Do what the Bible says!

I'm not one to defend the Bible, because I don't believe it to be the Word of God, but hypocrisy reigns in this thread, and one of my favorite things to do is use people's own arguments against them.

The second group, as I mentioned in an earlier post but I want to emphasize and accentuate, is the group that includes racists, sexists, ethnicists, and you anti-homosexualists and anti-human rights people, among others.

[edit on 3-12-2004 by an3rkist]

What Don't You Understand ?

Firstly and foremost even if you totally take God out of the equation:

Two men having sex is utterly "FILTHY" and "VILE"

Downright "NASTY" I quess you also feel it's okay to wipe your "Butt" with your hands. "DISGUSTING" It is okay with you also to stick your finger in someone else's "Butt". How "STUPID" are you ? Even Doctors wear Gloves because of the "WASTE" and "FILTH" But no, you "Perverted Ones" say it "FEELS GOOD" You have totally lost it.
I don't understand you people, but than again I do, You are "POSSESSED" by Spirits of Perversion and need to be "Delivered"

I have said before, I Do Not Hate Gay's, to me they are sick people and need help. I have watched many people DIE from the dreaded disease Aids.

They have said on their death beds that they wish they could do it over again and that they would avoid this perverted lifestyle that has brought them to this point.

I know of others that were once Gay and have been "Delivered" by God and now lead a "Normal" lifestyle. They would be the first to tell you about the "Bondage" they lived in, being controlled by "Evil Spirits" , spirits of lust and perversion. A "Burning Lust" that is never satisfied.

Contrary to what someone said, Most Homosexuals and Lesbians were violated when they were young and they were not BORN GAY.

Hyprocrites Huh, you are the Hyprocrites, those that would suggest that the Gay lifestyle is normal and acceptible.

What good comes out of such a lifestyle ? No Families or born, No Role Models for Society are created, Our children do not learn how to develop a true relationship based on LOVE not LUST, The beauty of the relationship between Father and Son, Mother and Daughter is never realized.

All that develops is a Burning Lust that is never satisfied, a proficiency in the art of du du chasing and a strong possibility of getting the Aids virus.

Also like I have stated many times, you can try to discredit the bible all you want, try to compare being Gay with telling a lie, just like in this world you are judged and sentenced according to the crime you committed, A THEIF will not get the same sentence as a MURDERER. It is the same in God's system, their are different levels of punishment which are based upon the sins you commit.

The fact is that only Homosexuality and Lesbianism caused a complete city and people to be destroyed by God. The remains can be verified today, sulfur is all that remains of Sodom and Gommorrah.

Do not believe these foolish people that tell you there will be no consequences, for when you stand before God, they will not be able to help you. We ALL will stand before God to give an account, whether you believe it or not, It Shall Happen.

Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
Two men having sex is utterly "FILTHY" and "VILE"

I think its pretty gross sure.

I don't understand you people, but than again I do, You are "POSSESSED" by Spirits of Perversion and need to be "Delivered"

Bwa

Contrary to what someone said, Most Homosexuals and Lesbians were violated when they were young and they were not BORN GAY.

Demonstrate this.

What good comes out of such a lifestyle ?

Whether or not what you think of as 'good' comes out of it is irrelevant. That is simply not a basis for Western Secular Law.

Our children do not learn how to develop a true relationship based on LOVE not LUST[q/uote]
Demonstrate that gays do not feel love

The beauty of the relationship between Father and Son, Mother and Daughter is never realized.

Except of course in the case of adoptions and surrogate mothers.

All that develops is a Burning Lust that is never satisfied

Has that been your experience then?

you can try to discredit the bible all you want, try to compare being Gay with telling a lie,

A lie? I don't think god said it was an abomination to lie. He did say it was an abomination to have man on man sex (tho this leaves out lesbians), but, heck, he also said that eating shrimp and shellfish is equally an abomination.

It is the same in God's system, their are different levels of punishment which are based upon the sins you commit.

Yes and apparently everyone who's ever had a shrimp cocktail is getting the same punishment as er heh heh cocktail heh heh.

The remains can be verified today, sulfur is all that remains of Sodom and Gommorrah.

Incorrect. No city called Sodom or Gommorrah has ever been find, nor has any citiy 'reduced to sulfur' been found. Granted, there are a bunch of cities in the levant that burned down, but then again there's lots of reasons as to why a city would burn down. The least of which is a little lesbian action. Oh, and they weren't destroyed for gayness. Sodom was destroyed becuase its inhabitants practiced sodomy, putting a schlong anywhere except a woman's vagina. Gommorrah was destroyed for commiting the converse, using one's hands in a womans vagina. Both were considered 'vile and unclean'.

We ALL will stand before God to give an account, whether you believe it or not, It Shall Happen.

Yes, and you're going to have some 'splaining to do.

quote: What good comes out of such a lifestyle ?

Whether or not what you think of as 'good' comes out of it is irrelevant. That is simply not a basis for Western Secular Law.
It is totally relevant, If it were a "Natural" relationship it would serve to enhance our society, not erode it !

quote: Our children do not learn how to develop a true relationship based on LOVE not LUST[q/uote]
Demonstrate that gays do not feel love
Gays feel "LUST" They can "NEVER" experience the birth of a child "THEY" produced and watch they as they grow and develop. All people with children see how certain trates and abilities are passed through the genes, there is a certain connection that only you and you children have, it is not the same as when they are adopted, there is no connection within the genes proving a "DEVINE DESIGN" something two Men or two Women can "NEVER" acheive

quote: The beauty of the relationship between Father and Son, Mother and Daughter is never realized.

Except of course in the case of adoptions and surrogate mothers.

quote: All that develops is a Burning Lust that is never satisfied

Has that been your experience then?
No, but it is probably your experience since you accept and embrace this Abominable lifestyle !


quote: you can try to discredit the bible all you want, try to compare being Gay with telling a lie,

A lie? I don't think god said it was an abomination to lie. He did say it was an abomination to have man on man sex (tho this leaves out lesbians), but, heck, he also said that eating shrimp and shellfish is equally an abomination.
The women are not left out, it is a abomination unto them also. I do not think God will send you to the "Lake Of Fire" for eating shrimp or shellfish, but you will certainly go there for committing this Abominable Sin
quote: It is the same in God's system, their are different levels of punishment which are based upon the sins you commit.

Yes and apparently everyone who's ever had a shrimp cocktail is getting the same punishment as er heh heh cocktail heh heh.

quote: The remains can be verified today, sulfur is all that remains of Sodom and Gommorrah.

Incorrect. No city called Sodom or Gommorrah has ever been find, nor has any citiy 'reduced to sulfur' been found. Granted, there are a bunch of cities in the levant that burned down, but then again there's lots of reasons as to why a city would burn down. The least of which is a little lesbian action. Oh, and they weren't destroyed for gayness. Sodom was destroyed becuase its inhabitants practiced sodomy, putting a schlong anywhere except a woman's vagina. Gommorrah was destroyed for commiting the converse, using one's hands in a womans vagina. Both were considered 'vile and unclean'.
Wrong again, they have found the remains of Sodom and Gommorrah

quote: We ALL will stand before God to give an account, whether you believe it or not, It Shall Happen.

Yes, and you're going to have some 'splaining to do.
"NOT AS MUCH AS YOU"

Originally posted by Lastday Prophet

I have said before, I Do Not Hate Gay's, to me they are sick people and need help. I have watched many people DIE from the dreaded disease Aids.

They have said on their death beds that they wish they could do it over again and that they would avoid this perverted lifestyle that has brought them to this point.

I'm going to reiterate and reiterate again if I have to: You talk about AIDs as if ONLY homosexuals get it. Please try to see past your stereotypes and realize that this is COMPLETELY untrue.

Contrary to what someone said, Most Homosexuals and Lesbians were violated when they were young and they were not BORN GAY.

Do you have any evidence or links to websites with evidence to back this claim? Because you've given no reason for us to believe this. I know I don't believe this for a second. Why would people CHOOSE to be homosexual? True, it might not be that they're BORN homosexual necessarily, although I would beg to differ. It could also be that the atmosphere they grew up in conditioned them to grow up to be homosexual, as you mentioned. But that doesn't change the fact that it's extremely hard to change a person's sexuality, and there's no proof that it can even be done. Those that claim that they changed may simply be lying to themselves. The fact is, I have a lot of trouble believing these people WANT to live a life full of persecution and stuff. I don't know anyone who wants to be something that would cause them to be ridiculed and exiled.

Hyprocrites Huh, you are the Hyprocrites, those that would suggest that the Gay lifestyle is normal and acceptible.

Do you know what the word "hypocrite" means? If you're going to accuse somebody of being one you should have something to back that accusation up. A good way to start would be, "You're a hypocrite because..." You're accusation is empty and could be viewed as an attempt at trying to hide your own guilt as a hypocrite.

The fact is that only Homosexuality and Lesbianism caused a complete city and people to be destroyed by God. The remains can be verified today, sulfur is all that remains of Sodom and Gommorrah.

Just because there's evidence to support the claims that there was once a city in the vicinity of Sodom and Gommorrah, doesn't mean that it's a "fact", as you so quickly referred to it, that it was destroyed by God in an act of righteous, wrathful cleansing. And let's say it was, there's definitely no proof that God destroyed it because the people were homosexuals.

I see the homophobics are still preaching the was of the Lord. Meanwhile, there is not a man or woman among you espousing the sin of homosexuality who has not sinned themselves. Because I would wager that:

None of you men have not
"spilled your seed"
looked on another woman and lusted after her.
That all of you engage in sex for pleasure and not pro-creation
That some of you wear condoms or have been placed under the knife.
That most of you have had pre-marital sex.
That most of you engage in oral sex which does not cause pro-creation, nor was the mouth and tongue or a woman’s vagina intended for this purpose.
That some of you are naturally infertile and therefore cannot pro-create but still engage in sex.
That some of you have engaged in the same type of abominable sex with females.

None of you women
Submit to your husbands in everything, as you do to your Jesus.
That all of you engage in sex for pleasure and not pro-creation
That some of you have either used birth control or been placed under a knife.
That most of you engage in oral sex which does not cause pro-creation, nor was the mouth and tongue and the man’s penis intended for this purpose.
That most of you have had pre-marital sex.
That some of you are naturally infertile and therefore cannot pro-create but still engage in sex.
That some of you have allowed your male partner to use you as fodder for the same type of abominable act.

And then there are those men and women who have divorced, and subsequently been with another.

And if this loathsome behaviour displayed toward your fellow man is what you call loving your neighbour, then the God you worship is the ugly red fellow with the horns, and a tail, and you will be spending your eternity nestled in the warmth of his furnace after you have faced your maker and he rhymes off your sins, then adds one other: Ye were told to judge not yet ye be judged.

Now before you righteous and pious people who would literally rather peer into the sexual closets of others and condemn them for sinning as you see it, you would be better off fixing your own sinful nature and cleansing your own abominations.

Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
What Don't You Understand ?

Firstly and foremost even if you totally take God out of the equation:

Two men having sex is utterly "FILTHY" and "VILE"

Downright "NASTY" I quess you also feel it's okay to wipe your "Butt" with your hands. "DISGUSTING" It is okay with you also to stick your finger in someone else's "Butt". How "STUPID" are you ? Even Doctors wear Gloves because of the "WASTE" and "FILTH" But no, you "Perverted Ones" say it "FEELS GOOD" You have totally lost it.
I don't understand you people, but than again I do, You are "POSSESSED" by Spirits of Perversion and need to be "Delivered"

I have said before, I Do Not Hate Gay's, to me they are sick people and need help. I have watched many people DIE from the dreaded disease Aids.

When I read this I feel ashamed.
It is allready bad you think like this, but doing this kind of wrong in the name of God is just despicable.
I am kind of hesitant to write a serious reply, because I wonder how much will get through your thick skull.

1. People who are gay are born gay.

This was allready scientifically proven on animals, and all evidence there was for gay humans points in this direction.

2. God looks beyond your little narrow point of view.

You pathetic little human being can not break lose from being revolted by gay sex, fortunately this is not the case for God. God understands why it happens, He understands why *some* like it and He also understands that being gay in a world filled with ignorant racists like yourself is not exactly easy.

3. You interpret the bible to fit with your lacking and superfacial view on things.

You should reconsider calling yourself a true christian if you insist on spouting the thoughtless and ignorant crap you have been sharing so far.
If you truly want to learn, you will read www.godmademegay.com and do research and revise your opinion, but I fear you are not hear to learn, just to lecture others your ignorant delusions, which will probably lead to another reply, not even worth my reading time.

Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
It is totally relevant, If it were a "Natural" relationship it would serve to enhance our society, not erode it !

What is 'natural' does not serve to enchance society. Animalistic rage and savagery are natural but do not enchance society. Gay Marriage/sexl, furthermore, does not erode society. Not only that, but if we pretend that it at least 'erodes' marriage, then it is, relatively speaking, a minor source of the 'erosion', compared to divorce and remarriage. Any 'protection of marriage ammendment' or laws would be entirely bigoted and hypocritical and (if not an ammendment themself) anti-constituional if it only focuses on gay marriage, it would have to do things like either outlaw divorce, or force people to saty married for a set period before divorce is available, and forbid remarriage. Maybe it should make people go thru a waiting period and take a course on why divorce is wrong when they apply for one, sort of like some places do with abortion? Hey that'd be fun.

Gays feel "LUST" They can "NEVER" experience the birth of a child

So parents who adopt never feel love? For anything? What about women who have had a caesarian section? Do they only get like, half love or something? Heck, parents that have children don't feel love in the years before they have them?

no connection within the genes proving a "DEVINE DESIGN" something two Men or two Women can "NEVER" acheive

I do not understand, what do deterministic genetics have to do with divine love? Are you arguing that theology is a figment of gene induced hallucinations?



quote: All that develops is a Burning Lust that is never satisfied

Has that been your experience then?
No, but it is probably your experience since you accept and embrace this Abominable lifestyle !

Since when do I accept and embrace eating shrimp and the lifestle of the shellfish eater? Oh, wait, you were talking about some other abomination?

The women are not left out, it is a abomination unto them also.

Nice to see that they;ll suffer in eternal damnation also.

I do not think God will send you to the "Lake Of Fire" for eating shrimp or shellfish, but you will certainly go there for committing this Abominable Sin

God ranks eating shellfish and man on man sex both as abominable sins. If you have lusted in your heart for shrimp, and given in, you might as well has had anal sex with another man.

Wrong again, they have found the remains of Sodom and Gommorrah

Yes, I know that there are two cities that some people claim are Sodom and Gommorah, however, all they are are cities that might've been destroyed by a volcanic/gasesous eruption that happen to be in the levant. Not the same sort of thing as fire and brimstone raining down from the sky and a big pillar of salt and what not. They are -claimed- to be such, but those claims are poor.
quote: We ALL will stand before God to give an account, whether you believe it or not, It Shall Happen.

Yes, and you're going to have some 'splaining to do.
"NOT AS MUCH AS YOU"

Says who? You? You're not supposed to make judgments like that, they're reserved for god at the throne. You know that, I know that, you choose to corrupt yourself by this and other actions. Like I said, you'll have some explaining to do. As far as me, you have made assumptions.

jakko
but doing this kind of wrong in the name of God is just despicable.

Right. Love your enemy. When someone smashes you in the face, don't smash back, don't run away, don't resit, give them the unsmashed portion, so that they can smash it in also. Don't struggle against 'evil'. It wasn't 'lobby for discriminitory laws and have hatred' nor 'lie about not hating'.

Originally posted by USAWrestler
When it boils right down to it, to the nitty-gritty...what is the point of sex? Procreation. Period.

Who made sex desirable? God did.

IMO being gay is both psychological and a hormone imbalance. Fix these and you fix the "problem".

Hey, you should be awarded something. You've solved in two sentences a problem that 300 years of psychological research has not solved.

Also, I don't have to prove God's existence because it is plainly stated in John 20:29, "blessed are those who believe yet have not seen".

Yet God gave me logic, too.

Btw, I am in no way a "hatemonger".

But you foundamentalists appear as haters...all you do is deny other people's rights, even to the point that they should live amongst us. If that is not hating, what is?

The whole point with me even arguing this topic is that I will not recognize ANY 2 people of the same sex as being married under the same God that nowhere in the entire Bible ordained same sex marriage.

No problem. You don't have to recognize their marriage. Let the state do that. No one asked you anyway.

Once again I will iterate: NOWHERE in my Bible does it state that 2 members of the same sex shall be ordained as married underneath the eyes of God.

Oh come on! the Bible this, the Bible that...quit using the Bible as an excuse for your conservative way of thinking! you can't use the Bible as a source of arguments when you are discussing with us ...atheists. Use your logic and see that the Bible is a horribly outdated book that applies to societies more than 2000 years old!

At least have the courage to use the new Testament that contains much better teachings about the human state...

Jesus himself told that the old Testament is no more, and that the new Testament should be used. If you are a true Christian, you should follow the new Testament, not the old one.

And for you atheists: You can mock our beliefs all you want, the fact is that if I'm wrong and I'm a believer, no harm no foul. If you're wrong....well you know the rest.

No harm, no foul? are you kidding? it is people like you that have voted for Bush...he even admitted publically that he does not care about OBL and that there are no WMDs, and you still support him! how dumb can you get?

Originally posted by USAWrestler
Answer me this:

If everyone on planet Earth was gay, then what hope is there for the future of our species? Let's also look at it in terms of...if everyone started out gay.....then there would BE no human species. Taking it a step further...if every being that is not asexual was gay....there would be a greatly reduced number of species.

So? that's hardly an argument. It is like saying that 'what if Earth collided with Mars'! Well, no one would be left to tell the story, BUT THE SITUATION IS NOT LIKE THAT. Get real.

However, if EVERYONE was heterosexual, then we wouldn't have this "problem" to deal with.

What problem? there is no problem...the species is doing fine, actually.

If you.....apparently being an atheist....have no religious beliefs, refute the idea of an all powerful being that created us all.....and you are wrong then you have NO hope whatsoever of a happy ever after. In fact, you'll likely not be happy...ever..............after(I know that sounds stupid)

BUT, on the other hand, if you believe in an all powerful being in a religion of your choosing you have less of a chance of being tormented for all of eternity. Not to mention the fact that you will likely be reunited with loved ones that you knew during your physical life.

Your sayings verify what I have repeatedly suggested over and over:

most 'Christians' actually believe because of fear of eternal hell, not because out of love.

Well, according to the Christian teachings, if you believe in God simply to go to heaven, you have earned a permanent position in hell.

But, aside from that, why don't you use your logic a little? Why should we live for ever? what shall we do for eternity? Is it fair to be judged if you are elligible for eternal life only from living a couple of ...picoseconds?

Two men having sex is utterly "FILTHY" and "VILE"

Fine, don't watch 'em. Other people may not find it filthy. That does not give you and me a right to define other people's lifes.

I have watched many people DIE from the dreaded disease Aids.

Yes, most of them heterosexuals.

They have said on their death beds that they wish they could do it over again and that they would avoid this perverted lifestyle that has brought them to this point.

AIDS is a problem for all of us, heterosexuals or not.

I know of others that were once Gay and have been "Delivered" by God and now lead a "Normal" lifestyle. They would be the first to tell you about the "Bondage" they lived in, being controlled by "Evil Spirits" , spirits of lust and perversion. A "Burning Lust" that is never satisfied.

Bull#. I've watched people on TV claiming that they are healed, but their mannerisms where totally gay. Hypocrisy to the max.

Contrary to what someone said, Most Homosexuals and Lesbians were violated when they were young and they were not BORN GAY.

That's another myth. There is no scientific connection between abused people and homosexuality.

Hyprocrites Huh, you are the Hyprocrites, those that would suggest that the Gay lifestyle is normal and acceptible.

We don't suggest is normal, we suggest that all people should be accepted as equal.

What good comes out of such a lifestyle ? No Families or born, No Role Models for Society are created, Our children do not learn how to develop a true relationship based on LOVE not LUST, The beauty of the relationship between Father and Son, Mother and Daughter is never realized.

Some people that have gay kids really love them.

All that develops is a Burning Lust that is never satisfied, a proficiency in the art of du du chasing and a strong possibility of getting the Aids virus.

You can say that with heterosexuals...going in the clubs every night for one night stands is just as dangerous.

Also like I have stated many times, you can try to discredit the bible all you want, try to compare being Gay with telling a lie, just like in this world you are judged and sentenced according to the crime you committed, A THEIF will not get the same sentence as a MURDERER. It is the same in God's system, their are different levels of punishment which are based upon the sins you commit.

Oh come on! this fairy tail with God should be ended as soon as possible! 2/3 of homo sapiens do not believe in Christianity! come on!

The fact is that only Homosexuality and Lesbianism caused a complete city and people to be destroyed by God. The remains can be verified today, sulfur is all that remains of Sodom and Gommorrah.

The City of Sodoma and Gommorra has been found, but how can you verify that it was destroyed by a divine action? it could have been an earthquake...a natural event. Many other cities have been destroyed by natural events.

Do not believe these foolish people that tell you there will be no consequences, for when you stand before God, they will not be able to help you. We ALL will stand before God to give an account, whether you believe it or not, It Shall Happen.

Well, let God sort em out.

THE PROBLEM OF RICH PEOPLE EXPLOITING THE POOR IS A MUCH MORE SERIOUS ISSUE, BUT I HAVEN'T SEEN ANY OF YOU 'CHRISTIANS' COMPLAIN ABOUT THAT!

I KEEP HEARING ABOUT "GOD" in this thread. not EVERYONE believes in your bible. why should anyone,homosexual or not,be forced to follow the rules of a religion they don't practice. if it wasn't for the christian aspect...what would the problem with same sex marriage be?

I Would Like You To Show Me In These Verses Where God Accepts The Gay Lifestyle ! These Are God's Words And Judgment Not Mine


Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.(acceptible)

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge , God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; {to retain: or, to acknowledge} {a reprobate…: or, a mind void of judgment or, an unapproving mind}

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. {have…: or, consent with}

1 ¶ Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another,( THOSE THAT WOULD JUDGE ME AND OTHERS THAT OPPOSE HOMOSEXUALITY ) thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.

5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

Le 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Le 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Php 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

Tit 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

Re 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb’s book of life.


What Is "PURE" About a Gay Lifestyle ?

You know what? I'm going to confess my sins.

Even though I give to the Salvation Army, try to help others when they're in need, am generous with my friends and family, conscientious in my work and honest as best I can be, I:

- condone homosexuality - I have good friends who are gay or lesbian
- spill my seed in vain - I use a condom
- have sex before marriage - darn tootin'!
- practice oral sex.

So I guess that because of these four horrid deeds, I'm going to Hell.

I don't mind... because your religious fallacy of Hell is NOT REAL.

Since some Christians here insist on sitting in judgement of homosexuals and their lifestyle, I guess it's only fair to sit in judgement of their ideas.

The Bible is one of the most intolerant books I know of. It proscribes more than it prescribes. It gives more ways to kill your neighbors and friends if they do not abide by God's Law (especially in the cursed Leviticus) than it gives ways to show your love and forgiveness to your friends (thank God for the New Testament). The Bible provides a template for a number of Christians (not all - I have good friends who are Christians) to put themselves above the fray and look down their noses at others - "Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone", my *censored*!

If that's what Christianity is - condemning lifestyles that do not fit in a narrow path for the "righteous" - then I'm sure glad I'm not Christian.

EDITED for typo

[edit on 3-12-2004 by Otts]

Ps 14:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

Pr 14:8 The wisdom of the prudent is to understand his way: but the folly of fools is deceit.

Pr 14:18 The simple inherit folly: but the prudent are crowned with knowledge.

Pr 14:24 The crown of the wise is their riches: but the foolishness of fools is folly.

Pr 15:21 Folly is joy to him that is destitute of wisdom: but a man of understanding walketh uprightly.

Pr 16:22 Understanding is a wellspring of life unto him that hath it: but the instruction of fools is folly.

Pr 17:12 Let a bear robbed of her whelps meet a man, rather than a fool in his folly.

Ps 59:8 But thou, O LORD, shalt laugh at them; thou shalt have all the heathen in derision.
Ps 2:4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
Ps 52:6 The righteous also shall see, and fear, and shall laugh at him:


Ps 37:13 The Lord shall laugh at him: for he seeth that his day is coming.

Pr 1:26 I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;
Lu 6:25 Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep.

"Thus Saith The Lord"

The God of Christ is a god of love. He is not a God or anger and revenge.

A God who sends most of His creation to Hell and laughs at their torment is not very godly in my eyes.

You atheists speak of "logic" when I see no "logic" in the entire universe being one giant craps shoot. Neither your or I can logically explain how the universe is constructed. Is it infinite? Is it finite? If it's finite what's on the other side of "the edge of the universe"? If it is infinite how is the big bang theory possible because you can't compress an infinite amount of energy to explode at infinite velocity causing infinite expansion(yes I love the word infinite, so no remarks). You just simply can't explain it. No way did it just "happen". If the big bang theory happened then what occured before that? This is illogical as we are all linear thinkers. We aren't meant to know this stuff, that's why it's so mysterious. We aren't capable of this level of thinking.

Also, I view atheism as pessimism because you have no belief in an afterlife. Therefore all you do in life means nothing if life inevitably ends for everyone. Most(if not all) of us will not make any type of mark on society that will be talked about 2000 years down the road so what is the point?
You have no hope of ever seeing a loved one that has passed on. You have no hope of paradise. Nothing to look forward to except waking up and seeing tomorrow and thinking "Yes! I'm still alive!". In your view time is finite. Not to me. Nobody, I don't care how "intelligent" they are, can fathom any form of "finality" in death. Time continues with or without you.

Jump on board, have some hope in your life, and things will go better, I promise.

I will also in this same post admit that I've been a little harsh in my views and for that I would like to apologize, I'm just very passionate about my beliefs. I hope you guys/girls can accept the apology.

[edit on 3-12-2004 by USAWrestler]

The God of Christ is a god of love. He is not a God or anger and revenge.

A God who sends most of His creation to Hell and laughs at their torment is not very godly in my eyes.

He is a God of Love,, but he has given us Laws to live by. If you choose to disobey his Laws, you will pay a price. He has told us that there are consequences to our actions, we have been warned. The Laws are for our good and well-being.

It is the same as the Laws of this land, You can race down the freeway at 100mph if you want, but if you get caught you will be punished and I don't think you will give the Judge any backtalk.

Just because we don't see God, that doesn't mean he does not exist and that we will not be judged by him.

Make no mistake about it, one day we all will stand before him to be "JUDGED".

USAWrestler - Actually, I'm not an atheist. I was baptized Catholic, but no longer believe. My girlfriend, who is a believing and churchgoing Catholic, calls me a "seeker". I can't believe in no God. I do believe in a higher power. I just do not believe in the story of the divinity of Christ, at least not in the way it's told.

However, my girlfriend and I do find that we have very similar values, when it comes to loving your friends and family, forgiving your enemies, being charitable and generous, and seeking peace.