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Abomination Of Desolation:(the Gay Marriage Issue)

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posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 03:13 PM
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Originally posted by crusader
Gay people just want to justify their wrongdoing, and they do that blatantly without thinking, why should hetrosexuals condone gay marriage, why should we? why? listen man go take a break, and come back when you re ready to talk sense.


Man, it's really too bad I can't call you anything but ignorant, because ignorant does not cover the half of it in your case.

1. Gay people are born gay, like black people are born black

Now try to get that inside your little narrowminded head.
Once you acknowledge this, we can continue the conversation and talk about why you insist on being the ignorant racist you are.




posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 03:34 PM
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Originally posted by USAWrestler
[GENITAL MATH].


add sperm eggs and a test tube to any of those and youse can gets babies.

Heck can just clone people howadays too



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 03:35 PM
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Amazing that so many people just spout their ignorance in the name of christianity. Read www.godmademegay.com and find out what the bible really means.



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 03:35 PM
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I cant get over how homophobic some people are. Thankfully it seems to be a minority in this forum but why should gays be treated any different to hetro's? As long as they dont try anything with you whats your problem?

Let me ask this to you homophobic peeps, If your child turns around and says he/she is gay/lesbian what would you do?

Regards,
Neo!



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 03:38 PM
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Neo, I think most of these homphobics do not even understand, what being gay really means.
They probably think it's a choice or lifestyle or something similar.
It's sad to see them embrace their ignorance and base their entire truth on that ignorance only, no longer able to learn or adjust their previous thinking.

I hope ATS makes a difference in making people learn and develop, also regarding these subjects.



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 03:41 PM
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Originally posted by USAWrestler
You don't think God just happened to make 2 sexes for no apparent reason....do you?

Who says he did?

A very generalized, stereotypical statemen

Well, there was a study not too long ago that found that men who were 'strongly homophobic' were also 'strongly aroused' by gay porn, whereas men who weren't especially homophobic were not.

if you would kindly go ahead and justify being gay

Why the heck should anyone have to justify anything like that?


crusader
Gays. people who ahomophobic are gay? what nonsense, are you talking.

Gosh crusader, I wonder how you'd respond in the test

usawrestler
Why should we condone an abomination of nature and God?

Should it also be illegal to eat shellfish, since the bible ranks man on man sex and shelfish as equally 'bad', ie. an abomination?

Until someone here has a logical argument for the fact that two members of the same sex should attempt to mate with each other

Sex has some uses other than mere breeding. Heck, even animals engage in gay sex.



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 03:53 PM
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Yep, exactly.
But what I fear is that any post to debunk the arguments of these hatemongers will not make them open their eyes.
You have to wonder, if they truly think like this, who taught them to?
If your parents are gaybashers and hatemongers, you are most likely to become one yourself as well, and I fear even the sharpest ATSer can not undo someones entire context.



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 04:05 PM
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Originally posted by Jakko
If your parents are gaybashers and hatemongers, you are most likely to become one yourself as well


Well im glad to see at least some people are understanding of the whole gay issue. But i have to semi dissagree with the quote i have put in, my parents arnt gaybashers but they do have a Very strong view against gay people. If only they knew i was :s i think they would dissown me. so im an example of how just because parents think one thing their children may not always agree.

Regards,
Neo

P.S and yes thats right i don't mind admitting im gay. I have realised that people are entitled to their own oppinions however much they differ from mine.



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 04:13 PM
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Why shouldn't gays have the same rights as hetros? They have plenty of love for each other as well as any children (I was raised in a gay household), they work, pay taxes, and carry on life just as most other people do. I have many gay friends, and for the most I'd say they are more upstanding citizens than many of my straight friends. I was raised to accept people, not judge them.



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 04:29 PM
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A very generalized, stereotypical statement. Might want to re-think that.


Did I actually hit a nerve? good.
.


why should hetrosexuals condone gay marriage, why should we? why?


Why do you care so much? why are you so homophobic? I did not see you protest about poor people and children being raped in Africa.


listen man go take a break, and come back when you re ready to talk sense.


Maybe it is you that should give it a break, with all that religious talk! people like you usually are just like Pharisees: all lawful from the outside, all rotten from the inside.


Why should we condone an abomination of nature and God?


You have to prove to us first that it is an abomination and then that God exists and actually told us so. Until that day, you may not continue your anti-freedom propaganda.


This country was founded on Christian principals and this totally goes against them.


The US constitution establishes religious freedom. It is a free society, because of that.


Until someone here has a logical argument for the fact that two members of the same sex should attempt to mate with each other I don't think we should condone it.


I really don't know if homosexuality is natural or not, but I surely know a hater when I meet one.

Why sex should be a sin anyway? isn't it a thing that two adults like doing together? they agree on doing it? no one violates the other's rights.

People, there is an easy explanation about gay bashing:

gays are easy targets!

According to research being done, extreme right-wing or left-wing opinions are highly popular amongst the lower classes, that are the poorest and most uneducated. But these people, instead of blaming their government for their situation, they pick at minorities.



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 07:01 PM
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When it boils right down to it, to the nitty-gritty...what is the point of sex? Procreation. Period. Sure it feels good too and that's what makes us want to do it, but that's secondary to the all out purpose of sex.

IMO being gay is both psychological and a hormone imbalance. Fix these and you fix the "problem".

Also, I don't have to prove God's existence because it is plainly stated in John 20:29, "blessed are those who believe yet have not seen".

Btw, I am in no way a "hatemonger". In fact I have alot of friends who happen to be gay. Do I like them as a person? Yes. Do I condone their sexual orientation? No. The whole point with me even arguing this topic is that I will not recognize ANY 2 people of the same sex as being married under the same God that nowhere in the entire Bible ordained same sex marriage. In Ephesians 5:31-33 this is made evident by the use of the term "her" when referring to the wife. Once again I will iterate: NOWHERE in my Bible does it state that 2 members of the same sex shall be ordained as married underneath the eyes of God.

And for you atheists: You can mock our beliefs all you want, the fact is that if I'm wrong and I'm a believer, no harm no foul. If you're wrong....well you know the rest.



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 10:42 PM
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Originally posted by USAWrestler
When it boils right down to it, to the nitty-gritty...what is the point of sex? Procreation. Period.

Incorrect. The sexual organs are 'designed' so as to produce lots more than what is the bar minimum requirement for procreation. Sex is not just about procreation, certainly not in humans.


Sure it feels good too and that's what makes us want to do it, but that's secondary to the all out purpose of sex.

Says who? You? Thats not much in the way of proof don't you think, stating what you beleive?


IMO being gay is both psychological and a hormone imbalance. Fix these and you fix the "problem".

And yet there are no hormonal or psychological abberations in homosexuals.


Also, I don't have to prove God's existence because it is plainly stated in John 20:29, "blessed are those who believe yet have not seen".

In other words you can't demonstrate god's existence. Not a terribly big surprise to anyone.


In fact I have alot of friends who happen to be gay

Do you also discriminate against them and tell them that they are only gay because of a hormonal imbalance that should be corrected?



The whole point with me even arguing this topic is that I will not recognize ANY 2 people of the same sex as being married under the same God that nowhere in the entire Bible ordained same sex marriage.

Ok, no one, I think, disagrees that you have a right to do that. Of course, if the state you live in legally recognizes it you will be required by law to 'recognize' it, whatever that would work out to in your situation.




In Ephesians 5:31-33 this is made evident by the use of the term "her" when referring to the wife.

I don't think anyone is arguing that the bible calls for same sex marriage. However some christian churches are apparently thinking about performing these ceremonies.

And for you atheists: You can mock our beliefs all you want, the fact is that if I'm wrong and I'm a believer, no harm no foul. If you're wrong....well you know the rest.

Yes yes, Pascal's wager and all. By similar reasoning one should join the most restrictive religion possible, becuase if the others are right, well they're ecumenical and lax so it will work about anyway. A'salam mylakum. You'll probably want to learn to spell it better than I do, since you'll have to convert to it by your own logic.

No one particularly cares if you have faith in pink hippos or jesus or anything, and no one should respect your beleif in jesus any more than any other 'serious' or fervently held religious beleif, like in pixies and hermaphroditic creator gods. The only thing that is an issue here is supporting intolerance and anti-constitutional discrimination against fellow citizens.



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 11:01 PM
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And for you atheists: You can mock our beliefs all you want, the fact is that if I'm wrong and I'm a believer, no harm no foul. If you're wrong....well you know the rest.


You'll have to explain the logic of this one to me...

If you beleive, but you believe wrongly that's okay.

BUT, if you do not believe and you are wrong that's not okay.

I believe in Jesus, but I go against his word and message and discriminate against others and I go against God's instruction to love my neighbour. But because I believe I will be judged on my belief, not my actions and my place in Heaven is assured.

You who do not believe but live a life of worthy actions are doomed to hell.

Huh, what? I'm confused.



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 11:18 PM
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Answer me this:

If everyone on planet Earth was gay, then what hope is there for the future of our species? Let's also look at it in terms of...if everyone started out gay.....then there would BE no human species. Taking it a step further...if every being that is not asexual was gay....there would be a greatly reduced number of species.

However, if EVERYONE was heterosexual, then we wouldn't have this "problem" to deal with.

For the human cloning enthusiasts out there......no.(yes i realize that's very descriptive for you smartasses out there)

[edit on 2-12-2004 by USAWrestler]



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 11:22 PM
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Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV



Huh, what? I'm confused.



Ok.....let me bring this down to a more....elementary level.

If you.....apparently being an atheist....have no religious beliefs, refute the idea of an all powerful being that created us all.....and you are wrong then you have NO hope whatsoever of a happy ever after. In fact, you'll likely not be happy...ever..............after(I know that sounds stupid)

BUT, on the other hand, if you believe in an all powerful being in a religion of your choosing you have less of a chance of being tormented for all of eternity. Not to mention the fact that you will likely be reunited with loved ones that you knew during your physical life.

I go with option B.



[edit on 2-12-2004 by USAWrestler]



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 12:04 AM
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So then the substance of your beliefs will have no baring on where you go after you die. The fact that you believe is enough.

Sorry, where I come from we tend to think that you should be forgiving of others, belief is not enough, match your actions to your belief.

If you believe that God did, in fact, create the universe and that there is an afterlife then, presumably, you believe in judgement day.

Do you also believe that you will not be found wanting on that day, because you subscribed to the theory that the bible bans homosexual relationships?

Do you play football? The bible also bans the touching of the skin of a pig.

Have you stoned an adulteress lately?

Eaten oysters?

Taken the Lord's name in vain?

Perhaps you should watch Dogma to find out exactly how many of God's commands you break everyday without even thinking about it.

All drummer jokes aside, I don't think they should go to Hell just because they play the drums. Play them badly, well that's a different matter.

edit: sp

[edit on 3-12-2004 by HowlrunnerIV]



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 12:24 AM
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Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV
So then the substance of your beliefs will have no baring on where you go after you die. The fact that you believe is enough.

Sorry, where I come from we tend to think that you should be forgiving of others, belief is not enough, match your actions to your belief.

If you believe that God did, in fact, create the universe and that there is an afterlife then, presumably, you believe in judgement day.

Do you also believe that you will not be found wanting on that day, because you subscribed to the theory that the bible bans homosexual relationships?

Do you play football? The bible also bans the touching of the skin of a pig.

Have you stoned an adulteress lately?

Eaten oysters?

Taken the Lord's name in vain?

Perhaps you should watch Dogma to find out exactly how many of God's commands you break everyday without even thinking about it.

All drummer jokes aside, I don't think they should go to Hell just because they play the drums. Play them badly, well that's a different matter.

edit: sp

[edit on 3-12-2004 by HowlrunnerIV]


Interestingly enough, I KNOW that God is all forgiving, per the New Testament. To answer some of your questions:

The inability to eat pig is no longer valid as per the new testament because even though it is a sin it is forgiveable.

Stoned an adulteress? No can't say that I have.

Oysters? BLECH nasty.

Taken the Lord's name in vain. I have no bigger pet peeve than the people that do this foul thing.

I've seen Dogma. A play on Catholic beliefs, which I am not one.

You are however correct that I should be forgiving of my neighbors regardless of race, religion, sex, sexual orientation. I still however have a problem acknowledging a couple as being ordained as married under my God's eyes though.



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 03:49 AM
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Originally posted by USAWrestler
You are however correct that I should be forgiving of my neighbors regardless of race, religion, sex, sexual orientation. I still however have a problem acknowledging a couple as being ordained as married under my God's eyes though.

So what you're saying is that you feel it should be legislated on how the Bible is to be interpreted?


[edit on 3-12-2004 by Durden]



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 03:51 AM
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Okay.

Just to clarify things...Are you admitting that the inability to recognise that marriage is your personal problem and God will forgive you for it.

Or

Are you saying God will forgive them for being gay and getting married?



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 04:47 AM
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Originally posted by USAWrestler Interestingly enough, I KNOW that God is all forgiving, per the New Testament. To answer some of your questions.


If this is true, then God will "forgive" gays. Just as he forgive you for lying about what the actually bible says.



Originally posted by USAWrestler The inability to eat pig is no longer valid as per the new testament because even though it is a sin it is forgiveable.


Then so is "gay sex". If fact it's just as OK, because Jesus said that pork was OK, because it just goes enters into the body. And sex is just your body entering anothers(and yes sex can be a bit more complex then that but you get my point) body then it's OK too.

So first you say this:


Originally posted by USAWrestler penis + vagina = procreation(don't argue infertility with me as that's a moot point)


ANd then you say this:

Originally posted by USAWrestler When it boils right down to it, to the nitty-gritty...what is the point of sex? Procreation. Period. Sure it feels good too and that's what makes us want to do it, but that's secondary to the all out purpose of sex.


So if sex is purely for procreation(according to you, anyway), then how is infertility not an issue?

And why shouldn't we bring it up if it's a debatable(or moot -as you put it)point, in your eyes.



Originally posted by USAWrestler I used scientific terms here ....

No, you just used words. Words aren't "scientific" or "unscientific" there just words.




Originally posted by USAWrestler Btw, I am in no way a "hatemonger". In fact I have alot of friends who happen to be gay.


And a lot of the German soldiers in WW2 had Jewish friends, so what?
doesn't excuse your discrimination of them, any more than it did theirs.


Originally posted by USAWrestler Do I like them as a person? Yes. Do I condone their sexual orientation? No. The whole point with me even arguing this topic is that I will not recognize ANY 2 people of the same sex as being married under the same God that nowhere in the entire Bible ordained same sex marriage. In Ephesians 5:31-33 this is made evident by the use of the term "her" when referring to the wife.


Hmm, good point. Now if you could, oh, how did you put it?



Originally posted by USAWrestler Now, if you would kindly go ahead and justify being gay without the use of an outside resource. Just YOUR thoughts please.


Ah, yes that's it. Well can you?


Originally posted by USAWrestler Once again I will iterate: NOWHERE in my Bible does it state that 2 members of the same sex shall be ordained as married underneath the eyes of God.


Nor does it say that man shall fly, yet we do.


Originally posted by USAWrestler If everyone on planet Earth was gay, then what hope is there for the future of our species? Let's also look at it in terms of...if everyone started out gay.....then there would BE no human species. Taking it a step further...if every being that is not asexual was gay....there would be a greatly reduced number of species.


So, if every wolf had breathed nuclear fire there wouldn't be a human race either. Doesn't make wolves wrong. My example was no more "fanciful" than yours.


Originally posted by USAWrestler However, if EVERYONE was heterosexual, then we wouldn't have this "problem" to deal with.


What "problem"? You mean your problem? Why should we care about your inability to be Ok with gay marriage? But by all means keep quoting words for no reason.
Won't help your arguement at all though.


Originally posted by USAWrestler For the human cloning enthusiasts out there......no.(yes i realize that's very descriptive for you smartasses out there)


..... yes.(I'd give a more descriptive rebuttal but in your case, why bother?)

[edit on 3-12-2004 by I_AM_that_I_AM]





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