Scientists Search for Type II and Type III Civilizations Using Space Telescope Data

I came across a video which talks about the search through data from both the Kepler and Wide field Infrared Survey Explorer telescopes for evidence of "astro engineering" by more advanced civilizations and thought you might be interested in it:




In case you were wondering what a Type II or Type II civilization is, Michio Kaku gives you a primer here:



Also on the Kardashev Scale (the scale of Type I, Type II, and Type III civilizations which Michio Kaku referred to) we have been estimated to be a Type 0.7 by Carl Sagan in the 1980s and a Type 0.8 now.

To rank some familiar civilizations from Sci-FI:

The Government of Elysium = Type I

The Federation from Star Trek = Type II

The Empire from Star Wars = Type III

Q from Star Trek The Next Generation or The Ancients from Stargate: Atlantis = Type IV

The Infinite Consortium from Magic: the Gathering = Type V

The most common civilization in our galaxy is likely a Type I or II. It is likely that if we were in a galaxy with a Type III we'd know it because as Jim Oberg said the signs would be all around us and easily observable. If a Type IV civilization existed in our galaxy it would likely be almost impossible to detect if it didn't want to be found. And for all purposes a Type V would be referred to by most people on Earth as "God".

Nice find, S&F.

This is where I'd put my bet vs. bio signatures.

reply to post by JadeStar


Absolutely fascinating! The concepts are incredibly inspiring in reference to imaginative fiction. Just thinking about them alone makes me want to write a science-fiction novel!

However, I have so little faith in humanities current state of being that I fear we may not surpass our feeble type 0 state.

Hopefully I am incorrect.

reply to post by Ghost147


Unfortunately I think you are correct...I might give us a civilization class rating of -1 though, to be fair.

An excellent talk. Much food for thought. Thank you, JadeStar, for sharing it.
Our own experience suggests that population is the best correlate for energy use. Indefinitely continued population growth appears to be unsustainable, even with the wholesale colonization of space.
It seems reasonable that in highly advanced civilizations, both population and energy use could have stabilized at levels far below those envisioned by Dr. Kardashev. If so, the level of mid-infrared radiation available for detection by us might be quite modest.

Ross 54
An excellent talk. Much food for thought. Thank you, JadeStar, for sharing it.
Our own experience suggests that population is the best correlate for energy use. Indefinitely continued population growth appears to be unsustainable, even with the wholesale colonization of space.
It seems reasonable that in highly advanced civilizations, both population and energy use could have stabilized at levels far below those envisioned by Dr. Kardashev. If so, the level of mid-infrared radiation available for detection by us might be quite modest.

edit on 7-1-2014 by Ross 54 because: made alternate word choice, for variety's sake.

Quite modest indeed considering that we sit at roughly 7 billion people, radiating .01% of our solar energy, and our elite on this planet openly speak of "thinning the herd."

Seems to me like they are more likely to find a type three than a type two, and even that, with a galaxy glowing like a sore thumb, it may take them quite some time.

But interesting video. Pretty neat to hear some of the ways they are approaching the problem. Some smart fellers for sure.

JayinAR

Ross 54
An excellent talk. Much food for thought. Thank you, JadeStar, for sharing it.
Our own experience suggests that population is the best correlate for energy use. Indefinitely continued population growth appears to be unsustainable, even with the wholesale colonization of space.
It seems reasonable that in highly advanced civilizations, both population and energy use could have stabilized at levels far below those envisioned by Dr. Kardashev. If so, the level of mid-infrared radiation available for detection by us might be quite modest.

edit on 7-1-2014 by Ross 54 because: made alternate word choice, for variety's sake.

Quite modest indeed considering that we sit at roughly 7 billion people, radiating .01% of our solar energy, and our elite on this planet openly speak of "thinning the herd."

Seems to me like they are more likely to find a type three than a type two, and even that, with a galaxy glowing like a sore thumb, it may take them quite some time.

But interesting video. Pretty neat to hear some of the ways they are approaching the problem. Some smart fellers for sure.

You should check out the work on Benford beacons. One article indicated we've been detecting transient signals along the galactic plane (I think - I can't remember the wording) like what Benford has proposed, and we have been detecting them for some time now. This is a really exciting field to follow.

I have devised a plan in order to succeed at becoming a type I civilization.

Put all the money in Science and scientists.

Leave corporations, capitalism and government run bull crap.

Screen for psychopathic and sociopaths individuals.

Success!

As if type 2 and 3 civilizations don't have their whole planets cloaked...

I mean, there's more than one reason why we haven't found anything yet.
What better way to uphold a "prime directive" then to cloak your planets from lower civilizations.

reply to post by JadeStar


Same chance of finding God im afraid considering any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic!

Good Luck all the same!

reply to post by JadeStar


nice thread
although observing space is the most popular way looking for alien evidence (especially with modern technologies)
sometimes i feel that we should look the evidence of 'aliens' on our planet. there are tons of 'uncharted' or 'dangerous' places imho, esp underwater, caves, tunnels, etc.
(if you are afraid of being kidnapped by MIB/grays/reptiles, lets go together, we go by a group of >500 people, we'll see how they can kidnap us lol)

most humans underestimate animals because they think animals are less developed (lack of rational mind)
but i feel animals (like dolphin, bats) might hold a key to communicating with 'aliens'

peace.

Anyone know what the BORG are? They must be like type 20!!!!!!!!!

I have always wondered what type 2 and 3 are capable of. Type one would be the easiest to imagine and to think of,while the easiest thing to imagine about type 2 is how many planets they had colonized compared that of type 1. Since type 1 is pretty much just the stepping stone for any space farring race, type 2 would be incredibly more efficient and alot more establishe.

Type 3 in our context just mean they have been around for along time, and didn't blow themselves when they were type 0,1,and 2. They'd be the most technologically mature of such a scale, also probably the most proud and arrogant of our reality, or 3D in a nutshell .

Type 4, well, if a tree fell over on the other side of the galaxy...They'd probably hear it.

S&F.

1ofthe9; On Benford Beacons: As these would provide us with only brief, intermittent signals, they would be hard to verify scientifically. They would be an energetically frugal means of active SETI, which might be a more realistic alternative to hugely powerful beacons.

The Ohio State University 'Big Ear' radio observatory reported receiving a number of relatively weak, intermittent signal in the plane of our galaxy. This was during their full-time SETI survey from 1973 to 1995. As far as I know, these were never identified with any known astronomical radio sources
The SETI League's Project Argus seeks to have 5000 small amateur radio astronomy observatories around the world listening constantly for such transient signals. If they could find one with a regular period of repetition, it could be listened for at appropriate times by professional radio astronomers and perhaps be confirmed as a genuine SETI signal.

reply to post by ATSZOMBIE


The Borg would only be a type one im afraid. Type two and three civilisations utilise their entire Star system maybe even there galaxy as an energy source, that's way beyond Borg tech im afraid.

reply to post by andy06shake


Not necessarily. Most civilization in Star Trek are type 1 and 2, while the federation been considered type 2, although probably still in an infant stage due to it being only a few hundred years old.

The Borg would have little interest in biological organism resources other then the biological substance and structures that they can recycle. Something that technological, while still alive would be bare minimum of type 2. Also they are feared like the Grox in Spore which would be type 3 due to their dominance.

Not only that, they constantly adapt to their enemies weapons parameters, making them that more harder to shoot. Unless you throw Data in the fight, he will rip out their arms when you turn of his emotion chip.

Prothean from Mass Effect would of been border line type 3, and they would attack The Borg with extreme prejudice due to their hatred and fear of A.I.

See Earth, the evil Borg recycle. You should too.

reply to post by Specimen


I lean more toward the Kardashev scale mate. IMHO the Borg are around or approaching a type II civ. Call me when they build a Dyson sphere/bubble/shell, now that's a type III.

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by andy06shake


Captain Kirk Generation, a semi-matured type one for such a short time, since it would 300 years after our life time, canon wise.

Next Generation would be a settled type 1, but moving to type 2 due to their expanding colonies, as well as relations with various species.

If I remember in ST:Voyager, there was a certain civilization that specifically will destroy all borg, including Seven of Nine who still has implants. And last time I checked, voyager on the wrong side of the galaxy, and is lost. SO the Borg have a galactic price on their head.

Borg would have offensive and defensive capabilities a matured type 2 since they adapt all the time, and are living machines with a single collective mind. But since they are like a virus, they just steal technology and improve it with their specifications. Thank god they lack imagination.

I just like to second guess this stuff.

Ross 54
1ofthe9; On Benford Beacons: As these would provide us with only brief, intermittent signals, they would be hard to verify scientifically. They would be an energetically frugal means of active SETI, which might be a more realistic alternative to hugely powerful beacons.

The Ohio State University 'Big Ear' radio observatory reported receiving a number of relatively weak, intermittent signal in the plane of our galaxy. This was during their full-time SETI survey from 1973 to 1995. As far as I know, these were never identified with any known astronomical radio sources
The SETI League's Project Argus seeks to have 5000 small amateur radio astronomy observatories around the world listening constantly for such transient signals. If they could find one with a regular period of repetition, it could be listened for at appropriate times by professional radio astronomers and perhaps be confirmed as a genuine SETI signal.

edit on 8-1-2014 by Ross 54 because: improved paragraph structure

Wow! Thanks for the info. Are there any papers about the signals and Benfords work?

I think its only a matter of time before we find something.