A question for people who think being gay is a sin.

DocScurlock
So what your saying that when someone COMMITS SUICIDE it because of another persons decision. I would love to see you prove that.

No problem. I'll take the time to get rid of your silly statement that suicide has nothing to do with race, religion, sexual orientation, gender or age as well... it won't be difficult. You're wrong on all 5, after all.

Sexual Orientation

Bullying of LGBT youth has been shown to be a contributing factor in many suicides...[13] Since a series of suicides in the early 2000s, more attention has been focussed on the issues, and underlying causes in an effort to reduce suicides among LGBTQ youth. The Family Acceptance Project's research has demonstrated that "parental acceptance, and even neutrality, with regard to a child's sexual orientation" can bring down the attempted suicide rate.[7]

Source

Gender/Religion


Age

Dr. Leon Kagan, the director of Geriatric Psychiatry at the University of Alberta, says many seniors cope well with aging. It's when they begin to lose their independence that they become at risk for depression.

"What makes them vulnerable to suicide is, I would say, the isolation that develops, more than anything," he says.

"These older individuals are having everything taken away from them in terms of their work, their health, their families and finding their role diminished…. And for some of them, taking their own life seems like it might be the only option that they have."

Source

Race

The truth is that blacks do commit suicide. And young black males are killing themselves in record numbers. In 2003, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported a 114 percent increase in suicides among black males aged 10-19 from 1980 to 1995, a rate higher than that of any other group. Among blacks aged 10-14 during the same period, the suicide increase was 233 percent, compared with 120 percent for whites in the same age group. For black males aged 15-19, the suicide rate rose 146 percent, compared with 22 percent for white males.

Why such a dramatic increase in suicide among black males?

Some researchers note that with racial desegregation, suicide among black males aged 10-19 began to increase. Here, in part, is what a CDC Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report states: “One possible factor may be the growth of the black middle class. Black youths in upwardly mobile families may experience stress associated with their new social environments. Alternately, these youths may adopt the coping behaviors of the larger society in which suicide is more commonly used in response to depression and hopelessness."

Source

and now because you dont like my opinion you want me physically injured? Wow talk about intolerant!

You don't have an opinion. You have a fallacious claim.; don't get it confused. I have no obligation to tolerate stupid garbage that people say out of ignorance.

StallionDuck
What are your reasons for thinking this way?
- Bible and God says so. It's part of the religion. You can't take some of it and not all of it. To do so would be taking away from the whole of the belief and concept. It's like baking a cake with no cake mix.

So why are you not condoning the stoning-to-death of non-believers that Deuteronomy and Second Chronicles commands you to do? Or following Leviticus and condoning the death of blasphemers?

Do you keep your women silent in the church as First Corinthians commands, and do you reject women of authority as First Timothy commands?

Do you eat pork? Lobster?

I could go on, but I'm sure you get the point.

boymonkey74
I asked this on another thread but no one has seen it or just not bothered to answer it.

Why is being gay a sin? when It doesn't effect others and no harm comes from it? What are your reasons for thinking this way? Is it because God says so?.
If so why does God see it as a sin? seeing he is all knowing and knows that gay people will be gay people and actually made them gay when born..wouldn't that be entrapment?.
Or is it you are just disgusted by the thought of the act of gay love making and want everyone else to feel the same way?.

It is entrapment but I think the target is the ones who judge and bully based on small differences even if they are symbiotic and do not really matter to the one judging. A good way to separate the sheep and the goats.

reply to post by TheRegal


link

sui·cide noun ˈsü-ə-ˌsīd : the act of killing yourself because you do not want to continue living : a person who commits suicide

we all bleed, we all breath air, we ALL make choices. These actions transcend any of the 5 things mentioned before. So your media tactics that I have called you out for using is further exemplified by your last post when you use media to back up your claim.

Also I pointed out that you may be one of those people that blame everyone else for your problems, and as you continue to argue with me it further proves my claim.

I said I would end the conversation if I believed this to be true. But I believe there are too many people that cant accept that its not everyone elses fault. If you would like to speak further on these views with me feel free to U2U me. I would rather try and help those that have lost there way than forsake them.(despite the the last sentence and the theme of this thread I am not a bible thumper)

age, gender , race, sexual orientation or religion. The only one out of these five groups that can be refuted is that babys and infants and toddlers dont commit suicide. EVERYONE ELSE of any age past those early stages of life have commited suicide, every race commits suicide, every gender commits suicide, every sexual orientation, commits suicide, every religion commits suicide. So no one is special when it comes to the need to end ones life.

9ArchaBallet9
Being gay and having children should be a sin! The only reason your doing it is to hide. Then there you are not even comfortable with who you are. And you feel that it's dangerous for people to know your gay. So you went and had kids.

WITHOUT even thinking that you could be putting them in the same GD predicament.

edit on 5-1-2014 by 9ArchaBallet9 because: (no reason given)

Congratulations!

You have made the most ignorant, mis and/or uninformed, prejudice and homophobic statement in this entire thread!!
(so far)

Please feel free to be resplendid in your bigotry

reply to post by DocScurlock


I know what suicide is. Trust me, I've had experiences.

Saying that other people aren't a factor in suicide rates is strictly asinine. I can tell you exactly why gay teens have higher suicide rates: social ostracization and bullying at school, and garbage parents who think their bronze-aged opinions trump their role as a parent.

But I just know that from experience, it's nothing I'm willing to do any more research for you than I already have so that you can just pretend it's a wash with a dictionary quote of a word that I know the meaning of already.

You're ridiculous. I'm certainly not seeking the counsel of someone who thinks that that dictionary definition actually discredits what I just said in that post against your claims.

You were defeated. The dictionary didn't help you. You were wrong. False claim was false. Sorry about your luck.

People obviously have to kill themselves for it to be suicide, but other factors, including social ones, absolutely contribute to them. To say that people don't commit suicide because of bullying is actually the dumbest thing I've ever heard on this forum to date. I've volunteered in youth conselling for 4 years and I can tell you as a plain fact that you are pathetically and disgustingly incorrect.

You're not worth any more energy if you still think that after I gave you a step-by-step breakdown of your 2 idiotic claims. You clearly are having trouble grasping the truth and if you're going to make dumb excuses for it then I'm not going to entertain it any longer.

Have a good life.

I think that among most "straight", there is also an unwritten and unspoken assumption that "gay = pedophile". I am not saying that presumption is correct, just that it is there - hanging in the back of one's mind like any other prejudice.

Many see pedophiles being arrested, quite often with homosexual (man on boy) offenses involved. They see that (incorrectly) as proof that "gay = pedophile".

I say incorrectly, because it's the same logic as saying that just because a high percentage of convicted criminals may be of a particular minority (pick one), that therefore people of that minority are therefore more likely to be criminals.

IMH(f)O anyway.
Peace.

reply to post by TheRegal


I didnt know we were trying to win or lose? Apparently you have some sort of childish agenda. I am just trying to help people and learn in the process. What I have learned today is that when someone gets it in there head that "its everyone elses fault" its hard to take that away from them. I will keep trying to fight that sentiment. I just hope you don't pass that sentiment on that to your loved ones.

btw I commit suicide everyday but I come back and do it again

DocScurlock

What I have learned today is that when someone gets it in there head that "its everyone elses fault" its hard to take that away from them.

Oh and now you know how I think.

It would be interesting for you to try and convince anyone who knows me that that's how I feel.

Again, you're incorrect. It's a very consistent trend you have in your posts.

Today you learned nothing. You don't listen. You just say dumb things and refuse to accept when they are proven wrong. Then you call the people who called you out on it childish. Ironic.

Gay youth absolutely commit suicide more often than heterosexual youth and it's been proven to be tied to bullying and family life. You're saying that it's this poor confused 11-16 year old's fault and absolutely nobody else's. You're being completely ignorant. Open your eyes and show some compassion.

Feel free to U2U me if you want to take this discussion further, but I warn you that you'll have to consider the evidence that is contrary to what you actually believe, as you've already worn my patience, but something tells me you don't do that often.

reply to post by boymonkey74


I do not believe it is a sin but my dos centavos anyway.

There are many who cherry pick bits and pieces from the bible to support their claims. Taken out of context and cut/paste, we can get the Bible to say anything.

There are many who believe every single word in the Bible comes straight from God. They are free to believe this and I cannot provide a counter argument to someone who holds that dear. I am just suggesting, there are many pieces of the Bible in the OT which were cultural in nature, not religious but portrayed that way. So over time a cultural bias against homosexuality morphs into "God says thus".

EnhancedInterrogator
I think that among most "straight", there is also an unwritten and unspoken assumption that "gay = pedophile". I am not saying that presumption is correct, just that it is there - hanging in the back of one's mind like any other prejudice.

Many see pedophiles being arrested, quite often with homosexual (man on boy) offenses involved. They see that (incorrectly) as proof that "gay = pedophile".

I say incorrectly, because it's the same logic as saying that just because a high percentage of convicted criminals may be of a particular minority (pick one), that therefore people of that minority are therefore more likely to be criminals.

IMH(f)O anyway.
Peace.

It's actually just ignorance about paedophelia. Man-on-boy assaults are just as common as the sexual assaults against young girls. Paedophelia, however, is gener blind. They don't care about the gener, they just lust for the young.

And yes, none of it is related to homosexuality.

But yes, I could see how there would be a confusion based on that, because men assaulting young boys would be statstically higher than the females percentage-wise in comparison to the gay population, which would otherwise suggest that gay people on average are more prone to being child molesters. They aren't, though; paedophelia is a whole different realm which is separate from heterosexuality an homosexaulity altogether.

reply to post by ABNARTY

There are many who believe every single word in the Bible comes straight from God. They are free to believe this and I cannot provide a counter argument to someone who holds that dear.

I can...

God would not contradict his own words...

Point out the contradictions in the book and you have your argument...

You have lots to work with

bibviz.com...

Darth_Prime
One thing i find hard to understand, is if you want us to stop "Throwing our sexuality in your face" why do some feel it necessary to "throw" religious laws in our face?

the hate is what i don't understand, and not even "hate" so much as the verbal attacks, the "Abominations" and "Burn in hell" and "Sickness".

Show me. Seriously, I've been reading this claim over and over again for the last few days and I'm curious as to where its coming from in the context of our online community. From what I've read here, the vast majority of our Christians are very well behaved, respectful, and at times even over tolerant. So if you don't mind (as the saying goes) PUT UP OR SHUT UP.

Akragon
reply to post by ABNARTY

 

There are many who believe every single word in the Bible comes straight from God. They are free to believe this and I cannot provide a counter argument to someone who holds that dear.

I can...

God would not contradict his own words...

Point out the contradictions in the book and you have your argument...

You have lots to work with

bibviz.com...

Not to mention that they'd have to believe that God is a liar based on how much of the Bible is easily disproved.

E.g. the desolation of Tyre, the drying of the Nile, etc..

StallionDuck


What are your reasons for thinking this way?
- Bible and God says so. It's part of the religion. You can't take some of it and not all of it. To do so would be taking away from the whole of the belief and concept. It's like baking a cake with no cake mix.

Is it because God says so?
- Yes. He is the center of the religion. So if he says so, then those that follow the religion must obey, otherwise they serve no purpose to follow the religion in the first place.

Then why do followers eat shellfish? Why don't they stone their loved ones for doing wrong? Why do they wear mixed fabric in clothes? Why do people braid their hair? Why do people wear gold and pearls? Why do people divorce? Bacon is ate; that's bad to do, why do people do that? Bible says you are not allowed to round your hair or remove facial hair. Eathing ham. Getting tattoos. Males who have testical injuries or do not have any are NOT allowed in church ever ( Deuteronomy 23:1 states:

He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD.


I could go on and on. There are so many rules and laws in the Bible - leviticus stands out most prominant here - yet they are completely ignored. And in the past, the main 'law' to follow in the bible was keeping slaves and they used that to show that it was right to have slaves.

They still planted different seeds in the same fields.
They still rounded their hair.
Church was stronger then than it is today - I bet some men had hurt testicals and went to church.

We dont keep slaves today. BREAKING ANOTHER RULE, BRO.

I can go on and on.

By pointing out homosexuality, and screaming for folks to follow that, but saying so with a mouthfull of ham sammich or not putting out your daughters eye for having sex before marriage, it's being a hypocrite to the highest of levels.

End of.

reply to post by TheRegal

Gay youth absolutely commit suicide more often

I believe what you ment to say is "Gay youths CHOOSE to commit suicide more often"

No one forced death on them, but the gay community will say so because it helps their cause.

Its actully kind of sad that the THE POWERS THAT BE would use the death of young men and women to further there cause. But when you are trying to divide the PEASANTS against each other I guess ANYTHING GOES!!!

reply to post by TheRegal


The OT God is a liar... a false god

unfortunately one usually won't notice...

Thou shall not kill... except when I say its ok

Don't make false idols... but its fine to make a metal snake to ward off snakes

The OT God is a mess.... its just sad Christians don't see it

DocScurlock
reply to post by TheRegal

 

I believe what you ment to say is "Gay youths CHOOSE to commit suicide more often"

No one forced death on them, but the gay community will say so because it helps their cause.

Its actully kind of sad that the THE POWERS THAT BE would use the death of young men and women to further there cause. But when you are trying to divide the PEASANTS against each other I guess ANYTHING GOES!!!

Yes, okay, I'll grant you it, crazy person.

The power that be plant kids in my office who are upset about being socially tortured at school, and gay suicide rates being higher than heterosexual is a wash because it was their choice to commit suicide.

How did I not see it before.

I'll start telling these kids right away that they need to just man up and quite being so sensitive. It's nobody's fault but their own that they're being bullied by other kids. They should just quit being so gay and the kids will leave them alone and they won't consider suicide anymore. Depression is totally a conscious choice an these kids are just being spoiled and TPTB put them up to it.

F&%king brilliant, man, you're a real visionary.

Confuscious himself, everyone.

(I've acknowledged that suicide is a choice about 5 times now, the fact that you keep saying it like it disproves what I'm saying is seriosuly leading me to believe that I'm speaking to someone with a mental disability)

reply to post by boymonkey74


Well, let me propose a counter-question:

What is the evolutionary purpose of homosexuality?

I assume you believe in evolution and not a Creator God, and I also assume that you believe homosexuality to be "natural," so tell me, why would "Nature" create people unable to carry out its prime directive, which is reproduction?

SkepticOverlord

StallionDuck
What are your reasons for thinking this way?
- Bible and God says so. It's part of the religion. You can't take some of it and not all of it. To do so would be taking away from the whole of the belief and concept. It's like baking a cake with no cake mix.

So why are you not condoning the stoning-to-death of non-believers that Deuteronomy and Second Chronicles commands you to do? Or following Leviticus and condoning the death of blasphemers?

Do you keep your women silent in the church as First Corinthians commands, and do you reject women of authority as First Timothy commands?

Do you eat pork? Lobster?

I could go on, but I'm sure you get the point.

No... I dont get the point.

We have old vs new, Judism vs Christianity and last but not least, the watering down of a system created by God, by those who strayed and still thought they should get to the kingdom. Even though the punishment has changed by mankinds actions, doesn't mean the punishment and outcome for all is any different. You're refering to man's law vs God's law. I'm sure those rules still apply, but the refusal of mankind to act on them.. well, that's something different.

Just because you bring those points up, doesn't mean it's ever changed by God's athority. It just means that we as a people just accept those sins as normal and not sinful. Wait... That brings to mind the very things we're talking about. homosexuality being sinful but by force, some people today are trying to make it accepted and to be forgotten that it's a sin. Well, sorry to say, it doesn't change God's law. People vs God... I think God would win. We'll just have to see how the punishments get laid out at the appointed time.

Thought you had something there, didn't you...