Success for the Chemtrail program?

reply to post by PlanetXisHERE

You're talking about contrails having a warming greenhouse effect which I do not disagree with,

So are you regardless of what you claim is in them.

From your OP

Many of us have noticed that so called "contrails" have behaved differently over the past decade and a half or so than they did in the decades past.

DenyObfuscation
reply to post by PlanetXisHERE

 

You're talking about contrails having a warming greenhouse effect which I do not disagree with,

So are you regardless of what you claim is in them.

From your OP

Many of us have noticed that so called "contrails" have behaved differently over the past decade and a half or so than they did in the decades past.

No one is debating the existence of contrails and since they contain water in one of its three states, or at least two, it would be tough for them to effectively block the sun's rays, but easier to trap heat.

Chemtrails in addition to water contain aluminum and barium particles, which can block radiation from the Sun.

I know you are very interested in this subject having hundreds of posts in this forum and I appreciate that, anytime you have further issues you would like clarified in the future I'd be happy to answer - if I'm around.

PlanetXisHERE
So it seems like the chemtrail program has brought down global temperatures, but is it too late for the Northern Hemisphere?

Your own data does not support this conclusion even as a hypothetical - the graph in the OP shows no such warming - if that were the purpose of a chemtrail programme then it has not been "succeeding subtly" - it has failed miserably.

Is it possible for this program to backfire and bring down temperatures so much that it ushers in a New Ice Age anyway? That is why I feel the public should be aware of this program and its temperature as well as contaminant risks (metal and other particles in the atmosphere).

you ask people to treat this like a hypothetical question, but then you conclude with statements that are made as if they were facts.

actual verifiable facts are:

1/ there is verifiable evidence that any such programme exists
2/ so-called chemtrails are not behaving any differently from the behavior of contrails as has been documented for 70 years or more

PlanetXisHERE

Chemtrails in addition to water contain aluminum and barium particles,

any verifiable evidence of that? any actual samples of "chemtrails"? Any actual equipment that would allow this stuff to be sprayed from aircraft?? Any fuel samples showing it in there? Tanks on a/c to hold the additives??

Anything at all to support this claim of fact??

reply to post by PlanetXisHERE

Chemtrails in addition to water contain aluminum and barium particles, which can block radiation from the Sun.

And how is that known when nobody has ever been up to test one?

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

Anything at all to support this claim of fact??

I'm gonna say soil samples, and water samples are going to be trotted out as evidence.

reply to post by PlanetXisHERE


Conspiracy-wise, imo, anthropogenic causes for cooling/warming - there are more than a few. Success of the chemtrail program - yes - although globally? hard to say because I read this morning that Australia has record heat. So will our messing with the atmosphere wind up producing temperature extremes? with an over-all cooling (compared to what current models show it would have been without interference) or will it have little effect as the poles continue to warm and melt? Or are the current extremely cold temperatures in the N hemisphere a result of messing with the jet streams?

So here's the list of things I consider when I think of anthropogenic climate change - number 1 and number 2 are not conspiracy theories but the rest are because, even though we observe what would be the results of these efforts, the msm does not acknowledge them.

1. Pollution
2. Jet emissions in the stratosphere/upper troposphere
3. Chemtrails for solar radiation management (to cool the planet)
4. Chemtrails as a medium for weapons/communication/shield delivery
5. Jet stream manipulation by manipulation of the ionosphere

Because it is the polar jet stream that the msm implicates in current freezes, and looking for the kernel of truth in the lies, that is the one that jumps out. Add the fact that DARPA allegedly returned to HAARP in the fall to continue experiments on creating artificial ionospheres and getting those to last longer and jet stream erratic behavior starts to have a possible cause other than phenomenal magic or natural causes of unknown origin (i.e. - it's just weather!)

What Arctic climate has to do with this Interior West cold snap

tsurfer2000h
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

Anything at all to support this claim of fact??

I'm gonna say soil samples, and water samples are going to be trotted out as evidence.

That's a good start, go and have a look. Airports for instance, thing is nobody seems to want to consider what is coming out of a jet exhaust in truth, and the truth is that just about anything that is bad for you comes out and its over your head and coming your way, in such minute quantities that you can breath it easily, and that is what will harm you.
It's too easy to say that the only thing that exhausts from a jet is water and a 'little soot' jet engine erosion is no different than in a car, and all the bad boys are there in the form of heavy metals, and also being exhausted..along with all the proprietary, (secret) stuff in fuel used for optimum performance, and safety AKA, 'required' for jets and aircraft in general which includes the articles the OP has mentioned as being in Chemtrails.
But, let's get back to actual experimentation against climate change, has it been done? yes it has,

www.nytimes.com... They even got NOOA to participate, ahem..unwittingly, totally in contradiction of the Kyoto agreement which has a 'cloutless' moritorium on geoengineering, "If it interferes with biodiversity". All crap really.

smurfy

That's a good start, go and have a look. Airports for instance, thing is nobody seems to want to consider what is coming out of a jet exhaust in truth,

Utter nonsense.

Even as far ago as the 80's Flight magazine was full of articles highlighting how much less NOx and SOx new generation engines were going to produce.

The environmental impact of jet engine exhaust is extensively studied - if not yet definitively known.

and the truth is that just about anything that is bad for you comes out and its over your head and coming your way, in such minute quantities that you can breath it easily, and that is what will harm you.
It's too easy to say that the only thing that exhausts from a jet is water and a 'little soot'

who has ever said that?

I and others have posted this diagram on here many times - it clearly shows pollutants other than "a little soot":



Analysis of particulate matter from jet engine exhaust has also been posted here on ATS many times, although possibly not as often as the previous diagram:

jet engine erosion is no different than in a car, and all the bad boys are there in the form of heavy metals, and also being exhausted..along with all the proprietary, (secret) stuff in fuel used for optimum performance, and safety AKA, 'required' for jets and aircrft in general which includes the articles the OP has mentioned as being in Chemtrails.

what "proprietary, (secret) stuff" is that?

Here's the allowed makeup of Jet A1 - what specifically is it in there that is secret, or includes the aluminium and/or barium that supposedly makes up "chemtrails"?? Def Std 91-91 Rev 7

Stadis 450?? It as eth big bug-bear for a couple of years, but hHere's the MSDS for Stadis 450 hosted by Tanker enemy - nothing secret there.....

One of the other ingredients?? which??

But, let's get back to actual experimentation against climate change, has it been done? yes it has,

www.nytimes.com... They even got NOOA to participate, ahem..unwittingly, totally in contradiction of the Kyoto agreement which has a 'cloutless' moritorium on geoengineering, "If it interferes with biodiversity". All crap really.

Why is it "crap really"?

This guy was able to pursue his own little agenda because there is no regulation on geo-engineering - no laws to stop anyone from doing it.

Yet when people propose laws to regulate it then chemise all scream that this is proof that it must already be happening - eg www.abovetopsecret.com...

If you want geoengineering to be illegal then you have to have regulations to do so!!

reply to post by luxordelphi


You left out one tidbit, the Gulfstream, wreck that at least temporarily and you wreck the Northern weather. When I was at school, there were a lot of premises being made good enough to explain weather patterns. One of those was that the Jetstream and the North Atlantic drift, (the gulfstream) worked together, but as you have said the Jetstream is very singularly, to be be the only culprit in our current weather pattern. Not once have I heard a mention of the Gulfstream and NAD from the Met office, in the same breath currently.

reply to post by smurfy

It's too easy to say that the only thing that exhausts from a jet is water and a 'little soot' jet engine erosion is no different than in a car, and all the bad boys are there in the form of heavy metals, and also being exhausted..along with all the proprietary, (secret) stuff in fuel used for optimum performance, and safety AKA, 'required' for jets and aircraft in general which includes the articles the OP has mentioned as being in Chemtrails.

I guess that explains why we often see "chemtrails" continuously spraying from takeoff to landing.

Considering the size of the trails at cruising altitude you would think someone could scoop up bucketloads of those secret chemicals at and around airports.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


So you say that I talk utter nonsense, and then go on to say so with extant pictographs that everything I say is actually true WTF?? As for proprietary poducts, that means secret. However carry on.

smurfy
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

So you say that I talk utter nonsense, and then go on to say so with extant pictographs that everything I say is actually true WTF??

I said one particular thing was utter nonsense - that no-one was looking at the pollution from jet engines.

Please try to make some effort to comprehend what you are reading.

As for proprietary poducts, that means secret. However carry on.

I know what it means - which products are you talking about? The list of allowable products is in the specification for jet fuel, so all you have to do is point them out.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


So you say that I talk utter nonsense, and then go on to say so with extant pictographs that everything I say is actually true WTF?? As for proprietary poducts, that means secret. However carry on.

AutumnWitch657
reply to post by PlanetXisHERE

 

There is no logic in chemtrails and the argument should end right there. Logically that is ...

There was NO LOGIC in building a nuclear reactor on the beach, either. But, they did it anyway!!! So, what are you saying??? These people make a mess of our planet, then say: "oops, my bad!" Meanwhile.....

The ONLY argument that should "end right here" is any that pertains to our government's best interest for our lives!!!!

Last time i checked, they OWN the LAND; they own the SEEDS; and now, they OWN THE WEATHER!!! And that's the FACTS!!!

Aloysius the Gaul

PlanetXisHERE

Chemtrails in addition to water contain aluminum and barium particles,

any verifiable evidence of that? any actual samples of "chemtrails"? Any actual equipment that would allow this stuff to be sprayed from aircraft?? Any fuel samples showing it in there? Tanks on a/c to hold the additives??

Anything at all to support this claim of fact??

I got FACTS. But, you probably won't like them because it doesn't fit your beliefs...still doesn't change the FACTS!

OPERATION POPEYE

Operation Popeye (Project Popeye/Motorpool/Intermediary-Compatriot) was a US military cloud seeding operation (running from March 20, 1967 until July 5, 1972) during the Vietnam war to extend the monsoon season over Laos, specifically areas of the Ho Chi Minh Trail. The operation seeded clouds with silver iodide, resulting in the targeted areas seeing an extension of the monsoon period an average of 30 to 45 days. As the continuous rainfall slowed down the truck traffic, it was considered relatively successful. The 54th Weather Reconnaissance Squadron carried out the operation to "make mud, not war."

Project Popeye was an experiment in increased rainfall through cloud seeding jointly approved by the U.S. Department of State and U.S. Department of Defense.[citation needed] The technical aspects of the experiment were verified by Dr. Donald F. Hornig, Special Assistant to the President of the United States for Science and Technology. The government of Laos was not informed of the project, its methods or its goals.

WHAT MORE PROOF DO YOU NEED??? That should be enough to quench any unbelievers thirst!

NOTE TO ADD: "The government of Laos was not informed of the project, its methods or its goals." And you think the U.S. government is gonna tell us? LMMFAO You really need PROOF???? Here's PROOF....WAR ON TERROR!!! WE ARE THE ENEMY!!!

WonderBoi
ote]I got FACTS. But, you probably won't like them because it doesn't fit your beliefs...still doesn't change the FACTS!

Facts are wondrful - let's see...

Operation Popeye - yep - cloud seeding works at least arguably...that's why companies can still make money doing it..

NOTE TO ADD: "The government of Laos was not informed of the project, its methods or its goals." And you think the U.S. government is gonna tell us? LMMFAO

Not at all - if it's a "secret" programme then why would they??

But the fact that they don;'t tell us isn't all that important when there is no verifiable evidence at all - no credible whistleblowers, no aircraft spray systems, no chemicals, no tests, not even any high ded photos of anything relevant at all!!

You really need PROOF???? Here's PROOF....WAR ON TERROR!!! WE ARE THE ENEMY!!!

That's not proof - it's just a rant! heck it's not even bad evidence!

Is that all you got? The US Govt did cloud seeding in Vietnam, therefore chemtrails today??

That;'s no even pathetic!

WonderBoi

AutumnWitch657
reply to post by PlanetXisHERE

 

There is no logic in chemtrails and the argument should end right there. Logically that is ...

There was NO LOGIC in building a nuclear reactor on the beach, either. But, they did it anyway!!! So, what are you saying??? These people make a mess of our planet, then say: "oops, my bad!" Meanwhile.....

The ONLY argument that should "end right here" is any that pertains to our government's best interest for our lives!!!!

Last time i checked, they OWN the LAND; they own the SEEDS; and now, they OWN THE WEATHER!!! And that's the FACTS!!!

Great point. I'm sure we could make an extremely long list of things the government has done that defy logic, such as above ground nuclear tests, anything nuclear in general, injecting people with radiation, agent orange, 2nd gulf war..........etc etc

In hindsight they'll say, oh, we didn't know chemtrails would precipitate a new ice age, that is what we were trying to avoid.........of course when its too late, like everything else.

From this weather we're having it seems obvious to me the chemtrail programs have overshot the mark and we're getting more cooling than intended.

Hopefully the albedo in the Northern Hemisphere won't be raised to the point where the next Ice Age will automatically begin.

reply to post by PlanetXisHERE


Could you clarify your position here please?

Do you feel that the chemtrailing has worked and is the cause of the recent cold spell?