World's climate warming faster than feared, scientists say

reply to post by soficrow


I've been following this issue for many years. It is clear the globe is warming and at this point we are set for a 3 or 4 degree rise by centuries end. Greenhouse gas emissions continue to rise year after year and due to our dependence on fossil fuels significant reductions seem out of reach at this point. We appear to be rapidly passing the point of no return. Exactly how this will effect the global weather system is based on computer models and open for interpretation. More heat energy in the atmosphere will lead to more unstable dynamic weather and more energy for storms. The world ending is a figure of speech not meant to be taken literally.

reply to post by soficrow


I don't give blind support to any view when it comes to climate change. Some people are militant about it though, just as some are in any given range of subjects.

When it comes to the climate change issue though, I am in agreement with Rezlooper in that methane being released into the atmosphere through natural occurance is the main culprit in many things that are affecting this planet. There is lots of science out there supporting that as well.

And since it is very hard to control something that is naturally occuring all over the world which would see no profit to those who tried, they created Global Warming, and when they were caught fudging the data, they changed the term to the more friendly, Climate Change. It's all about controlling the populace and the dollars.

Kali74
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

BTW... We ought to play a game sometime. We can each get an equal number of PhD experts on either side of the "It's warmer! no..It's Cooler!"

A better game might be to tally up how many PHD's are on each side.

Nawww... I don't go for head count beyond verifying there are fully qualified experts on both sides of an issue to make it something I need to form my own judgements on.

After all... Galileo was just one man and the people he faced were legion. He was right..they were absurdly wrong. Numbers of believers do not make a point correct, eh?

(See my more lengthy reply on the last page for a more serious approach to the topic...but the point about headcounts seems valid too.)

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I wasn't exactly serious, my point was from your position it would be a much greater challenge for you to find PhD's on the planet's not warming side to argue against those who agree global warming is a huge problem, the biggest problem of the entire human history. The consensus exists, even most of your cited claims don't argue that the planet is warming but differ from consensus on how much, how fast, how catastrophic.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I believe the Philippines just had the biggest storm ever recorded and it's true Australia has just recorded it's hottest year, hottest day, hottest month, hottest summer and hottest winter day since records began in 1910. Like it says in the article. Could just be a coincidence.

reply to post by Kali74


Well, we read what I posted differently. The planet has stopped warming and for over 10 years now...while some areas do maintain a warming trend for the numbers. This is the data, HuffPo notwithstanding, the climatologists are scratching their heads over..and have been in headlines for at least a couple years now.

The models have been wrong. Cold temp records and all-time records at that, are still being set. I just posted a thread a short time back about 1,000 all time cold temp records being set on a single day in the United States this season.

The point is, there is no consensus..however much some demand to declare there is one. As long as contradictions in data being used by both sides stand without logical explanation? There can be no consensus. As long as ACTUAL data contradiction exists to models which policy and real world decision making is based on? The lack of consensus is dangerous.

Climate CHANGE..isn't debatable. Pollution beyond all reason, isn't debatable. These are things we can see, feel, touch and..unfortunately, smell and daily. Direction of change? That seems very much fluid right now..and even NASA's own people don't fully agree on that, let alone lesser organizations for resources and sheer scientific ability.

Disagreement or challenge is almost viciously put down, as stories from scientists persecuted for dissent on this topic have shown for years as well. Down doesn't mean it doesn't exist, by any stretch.

reply to post by JimTSpock

I believe the Philippines just had the biggest storm ever recorded and it's true Australia has just recorded it's hottest year, hottest day, hottest month, hottest summer and hottest winter day since records began in 1910. Like it says in the article. Could just be a coincidence.

Did they? Would that be the largest for the Philippines or the largest in the world? We're keeping in mind that we can see and have records for less than 1% of the weather timeline of our world, yes? I love these record declarations ..and even my own use of All-Time cold records is fair to call on the same point. "All Time" is a very relative thing when we're discussing man looking for ways to deliberately alter the system we know so very little about, in the end.

* If I show you a place that has had the flip side for records to what Australia just experienced...will that mean we're headed to a mini-ice age and the warming is actually the variation to that end point? The data just flat doesn't support an absolute answer and that's where the debate between experts rages.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


So are you certain global warming is not real or are you saying it is open for debate? I can understand the second one not so much the first one.

ChesterJohn

In fact two points stand clear. 1) there has been a steady decline in global temperatures over the last 10 years and 2) 2013 was recorded as one of the coolest years ever recorded. It may be warmer than other cooler years but that alone is not enough to support global warming.

edit on 2-1-2014 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)

Please provide a source that says 2013 was one of the coldest years. LOL, that's hilarious. You, along with a few others posters on here seem to think that the world revolves around you. You claim it's cold, and where you're at you're probably freezing your nads off, but just because there are, naturally, a couple of cold spots on the world, doesn't mean that the rest of the world is cold as well. You may be experiencing some drastically cold temps right now as parts of North America are, doesn't mean that the other 90% of the planet is cold...they are hot. I'm in FL for the past two months and they have been 15 degrees above normal here and across nearly the entire state for about 50 of those 60 days. When they talk about cold days here, it drops to just below 70 degrees while 70 is normal for this time of year.

Anyways, the Weather Channel has documented that this has been one of the hottest years globally, so if you're going to make claims that it's not, please provide a source.

I love it when someone takes something like climate change, which is a process which can take thousands of years (unless you're a young Earth believer) and minimize it to what happened last week, or last year.

The bottom line is, the data we have indicates a warming trend. Likely, when the full effects of the warming trend are realized, most of us will have died of old age. Does that mean we should not look into what, if any, effect we have on the climate and try to figure out what can be done to minimize any such effect? Certainly not.

reply to post by Rezlooper


Same people who call out the local weatherman for getting the forecast wrong because it didn't rain in their backyard. Those special people who don't understand that said rain prediction was for a the entire viewing area, with no regard for the fact that it did indeed rain, it was simply east of their house.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


That's just from the OP article.

As the planet marked its fourth hottest year on record, a study published in the journal Nature found increasing levels of carbon dioxide will lead to thinner ocean clouds and reduce their cooling impact, causing temperature rises of at least 5.6F (3C) over the course of the century.

I guess we'll have to wait until the end of the century to see what happens. lol.

reply to post by JimTSpock


Well, I really appreciate you asking it that way. So few ever pause to even inquire..

I personally lean away from the belief man has the ability, by sheer presence and numbers involved, to leave the impact being suggested, let alone in so short a time. Especially when obvious issues which may make that true aren't even addressed any longer, if they ever were. Methane (Rezlooper is slowly selling me on that as a very real issue) and torching the lungs and Co2 scrubbers of the planet in South America being two BIG examples. (The forests boggle me, too...as that was a raging issue throughout the 80's and into the 90's ..while the issue hasn't improved, but gotten worse for land clearing).

In the overall question of climate change? Hey, I'll be honest here too since you ask so openly. This one DOES scare me because if man isn't doing it, as I suspect we couldn't even if it were the intent, then nature is. If nature is doing it alone ....We see evidence from the Grand Canyon to Antarctica for what nature can do in slooooow process or in fits and starts with little to no warning.

I think my biggest fear though is that the climate IS changing and the changes may well continue to accelerate in strength and unpredictability. Man's hubris and ignorant good intentions could amplify the very thing it tries to suppress by that very ignorance.

Doing nothing, in this case, IS better than getting this one wrong, IMO. We'll only ever get one shot, if there even is anything we can do to alter natures course.

Wrabbit2000

* If I show you a place that has had the flip side for records to what Australia just experienced...will that mean we're headed to a mini-ice age and the warming is actually the variation to that end point? The data just flat doesn't support an absolute answer and that's where the debate between experts rages.

edit on 2-1-2014 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)

The data does show an answer, but if you close your eyes and refuse to see it, so be it. And please, since you suggested it, show us the flip side...show us the data that says we're heading for a mini-ice age. I'd like to see that one. A small part of the world that happens to be heavily populated gets a cold Arctic blast and now, supposedly, we're heading for an ice age. I think the rest of the world will beg to differ. Anyways, if anyone has stats to show warming temps, I think it's the Weather Channel.

November hottest month on record

2012 hottest year on record for US

I could sit here all day and provide more links from all over the world about how much data there is to show warming. Even the deep ocean temps are warming. I'd like to see more reliable sources and stats for this so-called ice age that is upon us.

reply to post by Rezlooper


Lemmie get some business done today so I can call it a productive one for something other than warming my computer chair and I'll come back over to this to really get into it. Heck.. Why not.. It's been a loong time since I've done more than lightly spar with Kali on this topic and everyone here is very familiar with more than MSM data, to say the least.

*Do read the one right above this one tho... Ouch.. I mentioned you're selling me ..slowly, but getting there, on the methane.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I understand your view and it is certainly a very complex issue. Obviously there are vested interests at stake and I'm sure the massive and powerful coal, oil and gas industries aren't too happy about scientists saying things like reduce carbon emissions...

'Shut up you stupid scientists oil and coal are good buy more! Global warming is a commie hippy conspiracy.

How easy is it to discredit some nobody scientists who make chicken feed and don't know anyone in PR? Easy.

We'll get some of our own like the tobacco industry and make the waters so muddy average Joe won't know which way is up.'

They've done an outstanding job at the above and interest in climate change and greenhouse gas emissions reduction is actually declining.

One report in climate depot stated that if it was'nt for the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere, the planet would be -187 centigrade, if that report is true, thank heavens for 400 parts per million of CO2. (if you register, you get daily updates of all the latest 'weather' and 'climate' issues).

Kali74
reply to post by soficrow

 

Yeah, people really should learn how climate works before commenting on the debate. They might then learn there's no debate to be had and we're just in for a chaotic ride until we either pull our collective head out of our collective ass and solve it or we die. As you know, global warming will cause extreme weather, including winter extremes, for about as long as there is ice in the Arctic, once the ice is gone then we will have the global warming everyone thinks the term means.

Right now there is a lot of ice at both poles!!!

It's so confusing! I don't know if the Earth is heating up or not!

Oh my God I guess we just wait a century and see if the oceans rise or not. And if it does, oh well, I live well inland and at a pretty high altitude, so it shouldn't affect me at all!

reply to post by JimTSpock


You said Green House Gas (single) which gas is that?

I have heard many say it is Green Houses Gases but for years only said CO2, then recently said Carbon-monoxide.