There is no one to blame but YOU America…!

Brotherman
reply to post by GenerationGap

 

You make an interesting point, the only thing about it that I dont exactly understand is how you condemn the parents teaching with ignorance and then condemn the next generation as though they had a choice in the matter. Now don't get me wrong here I know what you were trying to convey I really do, the problem with this is, is that it implies that this cycle cannot be broken. This is a very real and very interesting perspective, once something is in motion it remains in motion and degrades over time. Perhaps whether spooky or not, there really is something involving intangeable forces. I say that it may as well be law to suggest that all order decays into chaos so that order may arise through the chaos, perhaps what you are describing is necassary for progression to occur? I starred you for your thought provoking post it was incredibly interesting read and may have in context been worthy of a thread in itself thank you!

And Merry Christmas

B-man

B-man great post.

Regarding "then condemn the next generation as though they had a choice in the matter" &"implies that this cycle cannot be broken".

Let's look at this philosophically using the few major philosophies just mentioned.

First, all those philosophies suggest that the cycle is either broken when people accept the forgiveness of God (Jesus dying on the cross so that we can create a new cycle of life), adopting Muhammad's Sharia because Adam and Eve repented, or that societies will always degrade but will always restart anew.

While I acknowledge all three of those philosophies, I don't prescribe to any of them whole. But the process back out of a degrading or already degraded society is going to be difficult. Even eastern religions express this sentiment. Any religion that's been around to experience the rise and fall of dynasties and world orders have incorporated the sentiment. It is a for sure a generational cascading, and to snap out of it people must start to process things differently; which usually requires watching a lot of human life die in front of them. Wars, plagues, floods, famine... but eventually something truly "biblical" makes a society rethink it's philosophy and the cycle is broken.

That's why bible thumped that piece from Jeremiah. It basically says that a lot of people are about to die because society has degraded yet again, so there will be reset and people will think of the way life is respected differently than the status quo of corrupt morality afterwards.

America is no different except for the fact that those who founded the country took this philosophy and attempted to create a system that would have the ability to resist and avoid the pitfall of every single society before it. Society will degrade, but at any point the present society can affect laws to deal with it; so long as those laws do never violate what constitutes the self evident rights of man. A person should be able to speak their mind. A person should be able to adequately protect themselves. No person shall be imprisoned with out facing his accusers in public and judged by a jury of their peers. No person should have their privacy infringed with out just warrant.

Obviously slavery in this country violated man's self evident rights. As a result nearly 3 million Americans died so that "that this cycle of slavery can be broken" (to borrow a piece of your sentiment). Consider that there have been just shy of 10k American casualties in Iraq and Afghanistan. After 3 million people died, American society rethought its philosophical view of enslaving a man. The rethinking wasn't immediate, and the scars can still be seen in racist minds on both sides of the spectrum, but there was a definite change.

I do subscribe to the idea the cycle will be broken, but first "The towns of Judah and the people of Jerusalem will go and cry out to the gods to whom they burn incense, but they will not help them at all when disaster strikes"; which, at least to me, means millions die and the cycle of degradation we are in resets.

Can the reconciling by calamity be avoided? I have no idea, but if any civilization can it's one that took hard look at history and built itself for the test. That is what I pray to the great nothing (hope) our world is capable of, but I'm filled with more doubt than optimism on the matter.

reply to post by Propulsion


isn't it strange that this nation is not even a thousand years old and we are acting like it's the end of humanity as we know it. it's the Shimabara Rebellion and we're only 400 years old give or take.

reply to post by GenerationGap


I know one thing, no matter how you look at it, something has got to give one way or the other. Differing factor is, humanity is not rolling the dice anymore, that fate was rolled long before my time today we are just beginning to see the consequences of such deliberate and dangerous gambles made with our futures by people we never met. Something has got to give and it is not just an American issue it is global, I hope things to work out for the best.

I am an Iranian and considering years of abuse by the Westerners specially Americans I should be very happy to see America falls,but guess what, I am not!,,Because I know America was once the land of the free the land of creativity and opportunity democracy and bravery.I know Americans are kind and good spirited but I also know their governments and the Zionist corporations are milking them dry and pushing them towards the edges of a massive collapse,I know they are dividing Americans to conquer as they are doing the same in most other countries in the world...I know most Americans know these facts but they are unable to do something about it and I really feel for them because we all feel the same...I also know that great nations will always survive despite all ups and downs,the evil can not and will not rule forever,there will be sunny days ahead,but it has to get dark before light comes up...Cheers to goodness,morality and freedom,,down with the darkness and evil.

It was Marcus Tullius Cicero (106 BC - 43 BC) in the timeless "The Traitor is the Plague" who said:

“A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly.

But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist.

The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance. — Marcus Tullius Cicero

“Nescire autem quid antequam natus sis acciderit, id est semper esse puerum. (To be ignorant of what occurred before you were born is to remain always a child.)”
― Cicero

A Bill of Rights is what the people are entitled to against every government on earth, general or particular, and what no just government should refuse to rest on inference. — Thomas Jefferson, Letter to James Madison December 20, 1787


Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty. — Thomas Jefferson

The moment the idea is admitted into society that property is not as sacred as the laws of God, and there is not a force of law and public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence. — John Adams

A free press is not a privilege but an organic necessity in a great society. — Walter Lippman

Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn
And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?

80% of the world once upon a time maybe wanted to immigrate to the shining country on the hill where it was thought the roads were paved with gold and everyone could be president. Then they looked around... It is true the standard of living in the states for those with money is exceedingly good and even our really poor have it much much better than millions if not billions of others. infrastructure to include our roads are some of the best you will find anyplace. I know to many people who have decided that America's greatness got lost along the way as far as wanting to live there anymore. Used to be our international student who got their PHDs in the states remained but now that is not the case as ever before.. I could look it up but those who are interested can look into for themselves.

I do not have any answers to what is going on now or what might be in the near future.. I still want to believe my country and countrymen will muddle through this tunnel and will come out into the light.. I really do hope so. I read once that it is seldom that liberty is lost all at once; even in Cuba it was not a night and day process..... Castro still had support until those very supporters found out to late he was just another despot that wanted to control their thoughts and very lives. The erosion of America's "Bill of Rights" is something all Americans should draw a line in the sand over IMO. I personally hope NDAA, Patriot act, NSA spying along with several other things that are blatantly in you face and against the principles that have been professed to be American idealism and constitutional are exposed and done away with. It may be to late to effect actual change; I honestly do not know?

The Bill of Rights is] designed to protect individuals and minorities against the tyranny of the majority, but it’s also designed to protect the people against bureaucracy, against the government. — Judge Lawrence Tribe

Restriction of free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us. — Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas

We are not to expect to be translated from despotism to liberty in a feather bed. — Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Lafayette (2 April 1790)
www.famous-quote.net...

reply to post by Propulsion

“How do you look at Americans, and tell them that they are responsible for America going to hell in a hand basket”?

The average American is not to blame. Most people are just trying to pay their bills and take care of their families. Corruption is so blatant in the US government that they don't even try to hide it anymore. They openly do what they want because who is going to tell them different? The American people? The American people were strongly against Obama going into Syria, did that stop them from trying? If Putin had not called Obamas bluff the US army would be involve in another countries bloody quagmire just like Iraq and Afghanistan.

Do you really think voting for a different politician is going to solve the countries problems? Voting in this country only exists to make people think they have choices in the way this country is run. There is no choice when both candidates serve those with the money to finance their election campaigns.

So let me ask you this Mr. Armchair warrior, what exactly is the average American supposed to do that is going to change the system?

Should we all make a bunch of signs and go marching around the capitol buildings chanting some catchy rhymey phrase? They tried that, it was called O.W.S.

Should we all just maybe show up in force at the polls and elect a totally new branch of government on election days? What is that going to do when both "sides" are ultimately serving the same interests? Obama won by a landslide, because people assumed they were getting the opposite of Bush number 2 but just look at his track record, Obama might as well call himself Bush number 3.

Maybe we should vote for a third party candidate who is obviously not catering to the establishment? Tried that too, his name was Ron Paul and to most Americans, he was a joke because the pretty people on TV said he was.

Maybe we should just quit paying taxes? Yeah, I bet that will not get you a visit from the lovely folks at the IRS. Or the increasingly militarized police.

Maybe someone should go in front of the white house and set themselves on fire like what started the Arab spring? somebody tried that too and only on ATS have I heard anybody discussing it.

"If all you preppers are so hell bent on preparing yourself for the fall of America, than why don’t you all get hell bent on preventing our Government from destroying America NOW, so we don’t have to worry about prepping"?

Preppers are a funny breed. It's like they want something bad to happen so they can use up their hordes of food and tell everyone else "I told you so!"

But at the same time, at least they are being proactive and trying to make sure their families are taken care of when the S does HTF. (Personally, I don't see how the dollar can make it another year.)

So, it begs to ask the questions, is this nothing but a waste of my time?

Is there really NO hope for America?

I've been on ATS since about 2007. I have seen thread after thread on this very topic. And in all of them there really are no answers on how to "change" the system into a better one.

It has to implode on itself for a reset. There is no way around it. The only hope America has is after the system crashes. It is so far gone and corrupt even if you take the most honest man you ever met and put him in office, within a year he will be corrupted beyond measure. The system is set up to make you that way.

Cancerwarrior
Personally, I don't see how the dollar can make it another year.

Wrong , dollar will be around many years.Dollar will be gone if it replaced with some world currency but still a lot of time until that happens.

reply to post by GenerationGap

Obviously slavery in this country violated man's self evident rights. As a result nearly 3 million Americans died so that "that this cycle of slavery can be broken" (to borrow a piece of your sentiment).

Probably many more died than that.

Slavery did not kill those Americans. It was well on its way to dying out eventually, even in the Antebellum American South. The civil war was fought to keep the Southerners from governing themselves. Simple as that really. Slavery was nothing more than a false pretense and an afterthought for the war at the same time.

Always remember that Lincolns symbolic move of freeing the slaves was nothing more than a PR stunt. Funny how it was 2 years into the war that he emancipated the slaves in Confederate held territories. Note he did not free the slaves in Kentucky, Missouri or any Northern territories. Too bad the South lost, I might actually be living in a country where laws are passed at the local level and not by a bunch of bereaucrats half a continent away that I've never met.

But freeing the slaves sounds so much better to the history books instead of saying that you were putting down a bunch of farmers and good ol boys that wanted to govern themselves.

xavi1000

Cancerwarrior
Personally, I don't see how the dollar can make it another year.

Wrong , dollar will be around many years.Dollar will be gone if it replaced with some world currency but still a lot of time until that happens.

Dollars will still be around, but their purchasing power will be so diminished you might as well use them for toilet paper. Hence my statement.

reply to post by Cancerwarrior


and then there is either gold or weed to rade

I'm at something of a loss for what anyone would have us all do right now? It depends on which side is being asked I guess.

The people who did this to us used the system starting mid to latter part of the 20th and right into present day. From school boards to Congressional Seats. Look at the modern power centers in the Senate and some of Congress for that matter. They date to the 70's in many cases. In Office...without interruption since then.

Yet..to suggest voting and far more importantly, making an impact at the caucuses where the people the public select between, are FIRST selected, it's a refrain of how pointless or foolish voting is.

If revolution is suggested (which I'm adamantly against) well, you have a lack of targets and method beyond the fanciful and daydreaming. Before you know it, that path leads to Timmy McVeighs and nearly 200 innocent people..with nothing changed but hard feelings turning harder on all sides.

So, in a nation as diverse and enormous as ours, I'm not sure what there is to do but have basic prep done and be ready for when the ship tilts hard and starts going down for real?

Wow OP, it's nice to see somebody in the Christmas spirit...What ever happened to messages of hope?

18 Months ago your thread would have brought a hammer over your head from the American members.. Isn't it strange how attitudes and trends are formed and developed on these forums?

"Americans stand by and do nothing"

That's why all the best Anti- New World Order presentations, and movements originate in America?

You had Occupy and half of you were ready to condemn that!.. What do you want, Blood?
If you weren't so busy hating/blaming yourselves, energies could be directed efficiently.

The truth of the matter is America stood the least chance of overcoming the NWO, as it's sole purpose from it's inception was to be the front house, and the face of Evil.

(This this openly played out on a Global Stage; ("America the worlds Police, and greatest hypocrites!").

The roots of Evil lie not in America but behind all borders, in the shadow of the day, lacing the whole Human race.

"How thankful for leaders that men do not think!" - Adolf Hitler.
Never a truer word spoken.

Here you are, promoting dissent among your own people (If you are American), when really you should be setting the example.. Do some research, learn how to fight the system, spread your knowledge, materialise your ideals...

Or you could just keep hating America.

benrl

America,

The Land of the Brave.

The home of the Free.

Seeing that our Country is not that, does not make me anti american, or make me hate America, It makes me a Citizen who loves his country but has his eyes wide open.

You would think that if our motto was as such that it would be a staple and foundation that we build our children through institutions.....institutions, what an interesting word. There's not much bravery here. For every one brave American there are countless cowards.

We are taught to be cowards. We are not taught to do anything for ourselves, like babies flailing about in this world. There is no freedom to speak of here either, in fact there never was. Even that is an illusion written in history books by the victors. Or every generation speaks well about the generation prior but even than was pretty #ty.

Our entire history is riddled with war and pillaging for as long as history is written. If it's not the US its someone else and that's the truth. If the mightiest nation became "loving" another nation would fill that void. I got to admit, I'm pretty ashamed to be human.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Started reading this yesterday, so far very interesting.

Sharp, Gene: From Dictatorship to Democracy. A Conceptual Framework for Liberation. The Albert Einstein Institution, Fourth U.S. Edition, United States of America, 2010

www.everydayrebellion.com...

The E-Book can be downloaded in PDF from The Pirate Bay for free if you are into such things.

xavi1000

buster2010


If you only go to the tourist spots I would agree with you. But aren't you kind of stepping on his freedoms? After all he is exorcizing his right to Free Speech. Your statement to him was an anti American statement at best and does not represent the view of true Americans.. As the old saying goes "Dissent is the highest form of patriotism".

I have told him nicely , reality is that in majority of countries Dissent is not even allowed.

Dissent is allowed in this country. So in your own words if you don't like it here there are many who would be happy to take your place.

buster2010


Dissent is allowed in this country. So in your own words if you don't like it here there are many who would be happy to take your place.

Whether you like it or not like it in US , there are MANY, many people who will happy to take your place.

I think you're wrong in some respect. Only about maybe 5% understand a little about what's going on and all the power structure. The rest are just mindless sheeple. So how can you blame them for anything. Also people don't have time to change the world. They barely have time to do there job and come home and have a bit of a life. Meanwhile it's just small group of elites pulling the strings of what the you-es is up to. So you can't blame the masses, not even close. They dont' know what's going on, and they don't have the time, money or energy to change anything. People on a forum like this are like well within a very small minority the 1% who knows a bit. And they certainly DO NOT represent most of america.

the rest of america is watching this...

Just because the bus comes by every half hour...

It's no reason to throw America under it.

We can change this Country....We will change this Country.

Our best days are in front of us.

Peace

xavi1000
You should travel a little more and you can see that US is in top 20 countries about standard , economy , life longevity, individual freedom etc etc.If you dont like it than leave or replace your citizenship with someone who wants to live in US. 80 % of World population desperately wants your place.It's holidays , be positive at least once in the year.

Really? Some supporting sources would be helpful. My daughter is quite the world traveler and she does not find what you have found....

jaytay
The majority of Americans are NOT responsible for the way this country operates. The major decisions are made by Corporations and Government officials who are OWNED by Corporations and the Average everyday American has NO SAY in what happens here. And Elections are just a show even though Americans Vote the Election is over before it starts. And you might find this hard to believe that this same operation happens Worldwide and if you think otherwise you have been living in a hole in the ground. wake up it's Everywhere. Merry Christmas or what ever ....

I agree with you about big business calling the shots HOWEVER that doesn't releave you (or I) of responsibility for our (OUR) country. We are all responsible. IMO a large part of the problem in the US is this "it's not my fault, I'm powerless" and cowardly attitude.