SO, I once called you a sell out, not behind your back as some would, but flat out to you in an open forum on your amazing site.
Sir, I apologize now in the same open forum, and ask you for forgiveness.
Your words could not be more true, or stated better by more than a hand full of scholastic titans of all antiquity.
I am humbled by your humblness, and laid low and made desperate by your desperation for true meaning of the cause and answers to these evils.
Your OP is the epitome of what I and many others see and hate about the world. I and many others would do anything to help stop, and reverse this
trend, but we seem to be powerless to stop, or even resist our own slide down the abiss.
Your words seem as a tiny point of light a million miles away down a near endless and utterly dark road. If only we could all see the way ahead as
clearly, or as simply as your words make it seem possible.
Thank you Sir, I really needed to hear it said in this manner to bring back perspective.
There's a word that comes to mind for me after reading the OP.
I think Benjamin Franklin said it well.
"Remember not only to say the right thing in the right place,
But far more difficult still, to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment"
That word is prudence and it can go a long way.
Thanks to you and Skep for an appeal to tolerance.
When issues become part of your (rhetorical!) makeup, it seems sometimes like a survival mechanism could be subliminally kicking in to a post, instead
of simply a counterpoint as typed up. Most times it could be pride-- but one thing I'd rather be is corrected than convicted to an untruth. That
truth thing has a lot of flavors, and some of us personally dislike most of them.
But religion plugged into the search of the truth per what we are, even encased in a forum can make veteran posters rally to The Bulge plus sixty-nine
years. Falling prey to the urgency of any spiritual issue, I can go lower tract more often than not.
Not claiming anything close to a veteran poster status, chronologically or mentally... I'll however treat the co-founder's call to "dis"arms as if
I was trying to quit smoking. There's a stretch: but no less an attempt on this side of the 101 to stretch the time frame to ALAP.
May that elusive "Peace on Earth, good will toward men" last.
Maybe we all could use more than a permanent pinch of it on our funny ties. Again, great gravy for the roast Skep.
I'm pleased to see this being addressed. I really enjoy discussing peoples views on religion. It saddens me to see the direct hatred and the subtle
snide remarks that go on in almost every thread. I have been guilty of it in the past I'm sure but I do try to keep a civil manner about me. Maybe,
somehow or another many of the people on the board will be able to tone it down. If not avoid the threads by posters that they know will be nothing
but bickering and trying to one up each other without actually having any useful conversation. I have made it a point to avoid some, even though I
dislike what they are saying because I know it to be nothing but false. I know it will not get anywhere to take the time to type anything out or look
Thank you for your input. I think when you are in a place of diversity and remnants of truth, the opposite would what to go there to stop the
process. Thus the forms of manipulation, and then others would view the deeds, and come to their own conclusion of the truth. Should we protest
through silence, like a couple that won't talk to each other thinking they are winning an argument. Should we fight it out? Should we say our
truth, and not care what someone else thinks about it, and be on a black list of the ones in power?
You're silent statement reminded me of the song The sound of silence, which of course silence doesn't make a sound. Fools said I, you do not know
that silence like a cancer grows. When one speaks, one hears only the vibration of that sound of that moment, but when one is silent, as David Icke
stated, there are infinite imaginings of possibilities. When you are silent, of course everyone wonders what you are thinking, as thus another
counter to those trying to manipulate you, especially if they like you. Or maybe they wanted you to be silent to begin with, I have no idea. What
would Gandhi do?
Everything you said is perfect, but this I wish could be.
Why can't people hear...why can't they listen and they can then disagree or not believe if you have no proof of something except your word, WITHOUT
calling people "stupid" spouting instantly "DENY IGNORANCE" which used in this way clearly calls the other person Ignorant for having an opinion,
without the consent of the popular or the majority.
When I found this site I enjoyed it so. Persons gave their personal experiences, their ideas, their feelings and that was OK along with the mainstream
proof of any subject. We wanted to hear everyone share. The thinkers who are not simply quoting what the majority believe are interesting and bring
fresh thought to the table to examine and keep or throw out, but for me they spark research and new ideas, that is great!
The site takes out the extra unneeded foul language (which I appreciate) and used to let discussion run free on all sides.
If you want to even discuss these issues, then that marks you out as someone with a greater ability to discern, than those who merely observe, forget
and continue. This is our sanctuary, this is our platform and our bastion, where no matter what we think, we have an outlet for it.
I have come to understand, that the battle occurs elsewhere. This place, is just a big discussion, not a battlefield, and no matter which side of the
divides among us one comes from, one ought to offer fellow members the respect they deserve as persons who elected to come here, and actually talk
this thing out.
Peace and love for the whole planet not on one day but wishing it always to mankind and all kind.
Great thread. I sometimes hesitate to post here because of the tendecy by some to tear down anyone with beliefs or opinions that differ from their
own. It's the height of arrogance to believe that your opinion is the only valid one. And what a boring world it would be if everyone acted and
thought the same way!
First I would like to say I wish you and your family as well as all our members and their families a Very Merry Christmas and to the ones who do not
believe in Christ then I wish them and their families peace and joy!!!
I am glad you are sad. Why? Being sad and telling us you are sad makes me (us) feel a part of your family and it also shows you have a heart with
feelings. The best part is... you are alive here on Earth to tell us!!
I share in your sadness because I can't make all people in the world feel loved and cherished no matter their personality or belief or the lack
thereof. I can't make the world a better place for all. I can't feed all the hungry children nor can I shelter the ones who lack a warm and cozy
place to lay their head. I hurt for the suffering.
You mention falling victim to "sides". Falling victim to a side picked is not where I want to be. I tend to pick the side of the underdog, always
have. I truly feel saddened when I visit a thread and someone is getting beat down. Whether or not we believe like another, does not matter. It is
how we react that does matter. Differences in people all the way around is what makes us learn. We learn from others. Whether it is considered good by
some, doesn't matter. We learn.
I still love ATS as much as I did when I first joined. I love all the different view points and I can understand the other shoe, even when it doesn't
fit. I gladly let the one who can wear it... wear it out!
Intent is key. What is your intent by saying this and that or what is your intent by doing this or that? If it is intent of anything but love, then
it's better left in the void of silence. The member/members who do not agree with this philosophy can make their own way without love. We will just
remain on a path with different journey's, so be it.
There is always hope. When we lose hope we stop living.
The problem with religion, from a psychological perspective, is that often people internalize their attachment to their faith and displace that
attachment to their, tribe, nation, mother or father; it’s a common psychological phenomenon. In-fact this attachment or displacement can also occur
with political and nationalistic beliefs.
That is one reason people get so bent out of shape over religious disputes. They are fighting for their mother or father, believe it or not, when they
defend their own religion or go about attacking others beliefs.
As well, as I have mentioned many times, religion like nationalism is an ethnocentric attachment and that makes it a family thing in many people’s
eyes, so we are dealing with powerful psychological and even biological forces at work in religious discussions that are under the surface.
Another reason I am sensitive to this topic is because of the worst experience I had on the Internet in my life was over religion.
Let me relay this story, it won’t be long.
Years ago I was on a religios forum, I won’t mention the religion
They were nice friendly people and I wasn’t a believer in this religion so I had no dog in the fight.
Anyway, some believers in a cultic offshoot of this religion came on the forum and in a very friendly way did a little proselytizing…nothing really
heavy or obtrusive.
But over time the believers became very abusive towards this group, it was a few of them, and it got worse as the ordinary believers over and over
verbally abused and mocked these people.
The people, to their credit, took a lot of abuse without retaliating at all.
But that didn’t stop the traditional believer’s abuse, in-fact it intensified and got worse and worse.
I actually stepped in and castigated the traditionalist about their horrible manners.
But it didn’t work, the abuse went on and on, until one day the cultist literally turned into raving maniacs online. And believe me I am not
exaggerating it was the ugliest THING I HAS SEEN IN MY LIFE! Not just on the internet, but in my life, and I have been around.
Of course this forum didn’t have much supervision because if it did; what I witnessed would have been yanked off the forum
The cultist cursed, screamed, yelled, and threatened, anything you could think off as they reacted almost animalistic to the abuse they took from
these supposed “religious” folks.
I mean it was UGLY!
No human beings should EVER have to be made to react that way because of abuse
I basically told the traditionalist that they were full of crap and all the craziness of the cultist was their fault since their abuse had caused
No one should never see or witness the ugliness that I saw, and I never want to see it again.
It taught me compassion and empathy
I've allowed myself to get drawn into a few terse political conversations in the last year. It's a waste of time to engage others who (often
vehemently) oppose your moral, political, and religious views. Thus, I lean toward the positive.
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