Members of AboveTopSecret.com: I'm Sad… And Maybe You Are Too…

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


SO, I once called you a sell out, not behind your back as some would, but flat out to you in an open forum on your amazing site.

Sir, I apologize now in the same open forum, and ask you for forgiveness.

Your words could not be more true, or stated better by more than a hand full of scholastic titans of all antiquity.

I am humbled by your humblness, and laid low and made desperate by your desperation for true meaning of the cause and answers to these evils.

Your OP is the epitome of what I and many others see and hate about the world. I and many others would do anything to help stop, and reverse this trend, but we seem to be powerless to stop, or even resist our own slide down the abiss.

Your words seem as a tiny point of light a million miles away down a near endless and utterly dark road. If only we could all see the way ahead as clearly, or as simply as your words make it seem possible.

Thank you Sir, I really needed to hear it said in this manner to bring back perspective.

Sauron
There's a word that comes to mind for me after reading the OP.

I think Benjamin Franklin said it well.

"Remember not only to say the right thing in the right place,
But far more difficult still, to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment"

That word is prudence and it can go a long way.

Thanks to you and Skep for an appeal to tolerance.

When issues become part of your (rhetorical!) makeup, it seems sometimes like a survival mechanism could be subliminally kicking in to a post, instead of simply a counterpoint as typed up. Most times it could be pride-- but one thing I'd rather be is corrected than convicted to an untruth. That truth thing has a lot of flavors, and some of us personally dislike most of them.

But religion plugged into the search of the truth per what we are, even encased in a forum can make veteran posters rally to The Bulge plus sixty-nine years. Falling prey to the urgency of any spiritual issue, I can go lower tract more often than not.

Not claiming anything close to a veteran poster status, chronologically or mentally... I'll however treat the co-founder's call to "dis"arms as if I was trying to quit smoking. There's a stretch: but no less an attempt on this side of the 101 to stretch the time frame to ALAP.

May that elusive "Peace on Earth, good will toward men" last.
Maybe we all could use more than a permanent pinch of it on our funny ties. Again, great gravy for the roast Skep.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


I'm pleased to see this being addressed. I really enjoy discussing peoples views on religion. It saddens me to see the direct hatred and the subtle snide remarks that go on in almost every thread. I have been guilty of it in the past I'm sure but I do try to keep a civil manner about me. Maybe, somehow or another many of the people on the board will be able to tone it down. If not avoid the threads by posters that they know will be nothing but bickering and trying to one up each other without actually having any useful conversation. I have made it a point to avoid some, even though I dislike what they are saying because I know it to be nothing but false. I know it will not get anywhere to take the time to type anything out or look anything up.

oblvion
Sir, I apologize now in the same open forum, and ask you for forgiveness.

I don't remember it so… no forgiveness needed. Carrying grudges requires too much energy.

I'm glad the honest sentiment of the opening post resonated. Hope might be a desperate spark, but all it needs is enough care.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Thank you for your input. I think when you are in a place of diversity and remnants of truth, the opposite would what to go there to stop the process. Thus the forms of manipulation, and then others would view the deeds, and come to their own conclusion of the truth. Should we protest through silence, like a couple that won't talk to each other thinking they are winning an argument. Should we fight it out? Should we say our truth, and not care what someone else thinks about it, and be on a black list of the ones in power?

You're silent statement reminded me of the song The sound of silence, which of course silence doesn't make a sound. Fools said I, you do not know that silence like a cancer grows. When one speaks, one hears only the vibration of that sound of that moment, but when one is silent, as David Icke stated, there are infinite imaginings of possibilities. When you are silent, of course everyone wonders what you are thinking, as thus another counter to those trying to manipulate you, especially if they like you. Or maybe they wanted you to be silent to begin with, I have no idea. What would Gandhi do?

reply to post by TrueBrit

Everything you said is perfect, but this I wish could be.

Why can't people hear...why can't they listen and they can then disagree or not believe if you have no proof of something except your word, WITHOUT calling people "stupid" spouting instantly "DENY IGNORANCE" which used in this way clearly calls the other person Ignorant for having an opinion, without the consent of the popular or the majority.

When I found this site I enjoyed it so. Persons gave their personal experiences, their ideas, their feelings and that was OK along with the mainstream proof of any subject. We wanted to hear everyone share. The thinkers who are not simply quoting what the majority believe are interesting and bring fresh thought to the table to examine and keep or throw out, but for me they spark research and new ideas, that is great!

The site takes out the extra unneeded foul language (which I appreciate) and used to let discussion run free on all sides.

If you want to even discuss these issues, then that marks you out as someone with a greater ability to discern, than those who merely observe, forget and continue. This is our sanctuary, this is our platform and our bastion, where no matter what we think, we have an outlet for it.

I have come to understand, that the battle occurs elsewhere. This place, is just a big discussion, not a battlefield, and no matter which side of the divides among us one comes from, one ought to offer fellow members the respect they deserve as persons who elected to come here, and actually talk this thing out.

Peace and love for the whole planet not on one day but wishing it always to mankind and all kind.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything."
-Alexander Hamilton


People should stand for truth.

We should be asking ourselves if what we believe , is true.


I believe that religion, science, politics, and business (especially Hollywood, and the Media) are often just an excuse.

Most people seek to affirm their personal choices.

If we asked ourselves “Are my actions good for all, or just for me, and maybe a select few”, the world might be a better place.


Conspiracies drew me to this site.

I was raised to believe a dark, selfish, force manipulates this world from the shadows. The older I get the more convinced of this I am.

I also have come to believe the internet itself is a conspiracy.

A wonderful tool, to share knowledge and increase productivity.

But.

The internet is also homogenizing popular attitudes worldwide, in ways I have never seen before, so of course there will be a clash.

Eventually the majority will stand for the ideas of no right and no wrong, and no accountability.

Complete Relativism.

Soon, millions then billions of people, will be the center of their own universe.

Manipulated, fighting, but still bound together, by the internet. Which will be precious to them.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Great thread. I sometimes hesitate to post here because of the tendecy by some to tear down anyone with beliefs or opinions that differ from their own. It's the height of arrogance to believe that your opinion is the only valid one. And what a boring world it would be if everyone acted and thought the same way!

But maybe there's hope. Let's see if there is. I want to challenge our members to stow their animosity for beliefs not their own in one area for one week: Religion.

Oh Boy! This one is easy, peasy, lemon squeezy for me. I like to read the occasional thread on the religious forums, but rarely comment.

Now if it was asked of me to avoid political ideology....I just might go into coniptions if I see something insane posted and don't react. LOL

reply to post by TDawgRex


i saw this thread and didn't click on it when I saw "sad" in the title, but glad I looked today.....good idea skeptic overlord,we can do this!!!

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


First I would like to say I wish you and your family as well as all our members and their families a Very Merry Christmas and to the ones who do not believe in Christ then I wish them and their families peace and joy!!!

I am glad you are sad. Why? Being sad and telling us you are sad makes me (us) feel a part of your family and it also shows you have a heart with feelings. The best part is... you are alive here on Earth to tell us!!

I share in your sadness because I can't make all people in the world feel loved and cherished no matter their personality or belief or the lack thereof. I can't make the world a better place for all. I can't feed all the hungry children nor can I shelter the ones who lack a warm and cozy place to lay their head. I hurt for the suffering.

You mention falling victim to "sides". Falling victim to a side picked is not where I want to be. I tend to pick the side of the underdog, always have. I truly feel saddened when I visit a thread and someone is getting beat down. Whether or not we believe like another, does not matter. It is how we react that does matter. Differences in people all the way around is what makes us learn. We learn from others. Whether it is considered good by some, doesn't matter. We learn.

I still love ATS as much as I did when I first joined. I love all the different view points and I can understand the other shoe, even when it doesn't fit. I gladly let the one who can wear it... wear it out!

Intent is key. What is your intent by saying this and that or what is your intent by doing this or that? If it is intent of anything but love, then it's better left in the void of silence. The member/members who do not agree with this philosophy can make their own way without love. We will just remain on a path with different journey's, so be it.

There is always hope. When we lose hope we stop living.

Love to you all!!! xoxox

♥♥♥ Mama J ♥♥♥

I don't think it's that. I just think it's the shadow g=v they've been in control ever since the land was found come on.

The problem with religion, from a psychological perspective, is that often people internalize their attachment to their faith and displace that attachment to their, tribe, nation, mother or father; it’s a common psychological phenomenon. In-fact this attachment or displacement can also occur with political and nationalistic beliefs.

That is one reason people get so bent out of shape over religious disputes. They are fighting for their mother or father, believe it or not, when they defend their own religion or go about attacking others beliefs.

As well, as I have mentioned many times, religion like nationalism is an ethnocentric attachment and that makes it a family thing in many people’s eyes, so we are dealing with powerful psychological and even biological forces at work in religious discussions that are under the surface.

Another reason I am sensitive to this topic is because of the worst experience I had on the Internet in my life was over religion.

Let me relay this story, it won’t be long.

Years ago I was on a religios forum, I won’t mention the religion

They were nice friendly people and I wasn’t a believer in this religion so I had no dog in the fight.

Anyway, some believers in a cultic offshoot of this religion came on the forum and in a very friendly way did a little proselytizing…nothing really heavy or obtrusive.

But over time the believers became very abusive towards this group, it was a few of them, and it got worse as the ordinary believers over and over verbally abused and mocked these people.

The people, to their credit, took a lot of abuse without retaliating at all.
But that didn’t stop the traditional believer’s abuse, in-fact it intensified and got worse and worse.

I actually stepped in and castigated the traditionalist about their horrible manners.

But it didn’t work, the abuse went on and on, until one day the cultist literally turned into raving maniacs online. And believe me I am not exaggerating it was the ugliest THING I HAS SEEN IN MY LIFE! Not just on the internet, but in my life, and I have been around.

Of course this forum didn’t have much supervision because if it did; what I witnessed would have been yanked off the forum

The cultist cursed, screamed, yelled, and threatened, anything you could think off as they reacted almost animalistic to the abuse they took from these supposed “religious” folks.

I mean it was UGLY!

No human beings should EVER have to be made to react that way because of abuse

I basically told the traditionalist that they were full of crap and all the craziness of the cultist was their fault since their abuse had caused it.

No one should never see or witness the ugliness that I saw, and I never want to see it again.
It taught me compassion and empathy


So I salute the OP for this thread

0bserver1
Absolutely right about that I'm in for it.

YESSSS!!!

Thanks much...

More than anything, I miss the little animated ones.

reply to post by Willtell


The same thing happened to me in reverse.

reply to post by Stormdancer777


What do you mean...you were subject to a vicious religious quarrel?

I've allowed myself to get drawn into a few terse political conversations in the last year. It's a waste of time to engage others who (often vehemently) oppose your moral, political, and religious views. Thus, I lean toward the positive.

Thank your, sir, for your post.

merry christmas to s. o. and springer.

you have kept a GREAT site going for a looong time.

you still have good people here despite the mainstreamness,

here is to many more years of ATS [tips pint/hat and whatever....kudos!!]