Get Ready To Meet Thy Maker

Serdgiam

AfterInfinity
Being my own master doesn't require breaking the laws of physics.

You missed my point. If YOU are subject to the laws of physics, YOU are not the master. You are a subject of the universe. Excluding any religious notions, the universe is your master. You are not your own.

If free will exists, that means you have the capability to choose where to divert energy and resources. But, even so, you must do so under the rules of your master.

You missed my point. I am not master of the laws of physics, I am master of myself. Regardless of whether I am subject to the universe or not, I am the master of how I react and interact, which means I am the master of whether or not I walk away, fight, shake hands, give kind words, spit insults, etc. I can be having the crappiest day in the whole world and still muster the power to make someone smile. I can be having a brilliant day and ruin someone else's. Just because it rains, doesn't mean I have to cry about it. And just because I get punched in the face doesn't mean I have to go around kicking starved dogs. I have the choice to create or destroy based on what I have and what I am given.

The universe can do what it wants to me, but I am still capable of making my life worthwhile by my own power. That makes me my own master. You seem to be looking at the term "master" very differently, and very narrowly.

AutumnWitch657
reply to post by ketsuko

 

The Red cross, FEMA ,Amnisty Intl, Americares, Medical teams Intl., Doctors without boarders.

And that proves what exactly?

I made no claims that no one else does good. I was only answering the charge that Christians do no good.

I would quibble with you about FEMA. They are pretty damn inept being a red-tape laden government bureaucracy.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Of course, you're the master of yourself. We all are. I don't think anyone implied differently.

reply to post by ketsuko


And I'm still waiting to hear from you about my followup post. Or you on a one response per person thing right now? This post: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Cor Leonis


There is more approaching than what most realize. God bless!

sure there's gonna be a meteor shower that will pellet the Earth with 200 lb rocks & ice


then some 4-to-8 months later mankind will 'see' the Army-of-Angels coming to invade the planet

then at the last 'Trumpet' (either a Shofar or the actual Feast of Trumpets calendar day) the
Image of Jesus will be seen by the whole world at-the-same-time...

this is possible because of the Social Media outlets that use the Internet 'cloud computing' platform to actually fulfill the prediction that the Second Coming' i]Sign-of-the-Lord' will come in the 'clouds' so that everyone may see the return of the 'Lord'



see, all the wireless internet will still be working because the Anti-Christ 'Mark' system will be operating even as the Angel (Alien) Invasion is proceeding & the Lord along with the New-Jerusalem unveils itself to the people
...think in terms of a 'cloaking device' hiding the Mother-Ship...'a-'la vintage Star Trek reality

reply to post by ketsuko


I actually did, in a way. Though, it was more to rile AI up than anything. Its a little too fun for me

It all depends on how one defines the "self," but what constitutes our physical body is not necessarily under our control and it doesnt need to abide by our arbitrary rules. DNA, our overall form, injuries, localization, etc. Meaning, there is a greater force at work that we MUST adhere to. Period. Doesnt matter what one calls it, really.

So, we can "become" masters of a function (in math terms here), but we are not the master of how that function is defined. We must work within a set of rules that we have no control over whatsoever, and yet those rules control EVERYTHING that is done with that function.

We are servants to what we know as the law of physics, which is represenative of a more universal truth. We are servants of the universe, whether we like it or not. There isnt even a need to involve a deity to show that we ALL serve in a master/servant relationship with the world around us.

reply to post by Serdgiam


Whatever. I am my own master. You can argue with me, but I hope you don't expect an answer from thin air, because I'm done with this tangent of discussion. I don't intend to meet any "maker" such as the OP is describing.

ketsuko
reply to post by Krazysh0t

 

What do you think we should do about it?

What do you think all the charity orgs and hospitals and other Christian orgs are all for? Whom do you think marshals large groups of people to muster to disaster zones to help out every time something nasty happens in this nation regardless of the faith of the people touched?

But ... no, we don't do anything to help people. Go on believing that.

First off, are YOU particularly involved with any of those organizations, and if so, are you doing all you possibly can to help? Because that is always the goto response from Christians when this point is brought up, but they always fail to mention what they are doing as Christians to end the evils in the world. And if you aren't even involved with any those things, I don't think you should be getting all high and mighty with me about what I said. Also while these organizations exist, there are other organizations masquerading under the name of Christianity doing more to spread evil than any of those organizations you named. We have organizations like the Westboro Baptist Church or anti-gay activists trying to persecute gay people. Where are the churches for the growing racial divide in the country? Reverend Al Sharpton always opens his big mouth for the slightest black injustice, but is always deafeningly silent when other races are slighted. Muslim hate has spread fast in this country within the past 12 years with no Christian word about stopping it. It has gotten so bad that idiot, Christian conservatives yell about the President possibly being a Muslim like it is unconstitutional or something (it's not).

First off, I don't attend church. I haven't found one I like in this city. However, I do regularly give what I can and help where I can, both people I know and those I don't. We don't tend to do garage sales, for example, we donate to orgs like Salvation Army or Goodwill or just plain hand stuff on to people we know who can use it. But in general, I don't talk about the stuff I do. I just do it. Pick up the person whose car is broken and needs a ride or the old lady struggling through unshoveled, snowbound sidewalks to get from point A to point B. Buying the extra groceries to put in the bucket before you leave the store. Sticking the extra cash in the donation tins. What's the point in talking about it?

Works aren't for your own aggrandizement. Not to say, "See how good I am."

Not to mention, if evil is on the rise in the world, what about the slave trades of the past? Segregation? Massacre and huge mistreatment of the Native Americans? That is just America. We also have the Inquisition, the Crusades, the Holocaust, there have been at least three world wars within the last few hundred years, nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki (something I consider FAR more reprehensible then losing 3000 lives when some planes strike two buildings). Apartheid? All these things happened in our past with some causing more death and destruction than anything going on today.

You mistake the point. Evil has always been, will always be here. It's the pattern of events that is different and fit what we were told to watch for, and if we're right, nothing we're seen yet will compare to what's to come.

And of course, horrible things get done for all kinds of excuses. Mao killed millions to construct his perfect, communist, atheist utopia as did Stalin and Pol Pot. The Japanese and Germans ran inhuman POW camps as well the concentration camps where people were killed for simply being who and what they were. North Korea today kills you seemingly on a whim and for not loving the state enough.

In the end, humans are humans. There is no such thing as pure evil or pure good. Everyone is just different shades of gray and that shade may change at any moment in someone's life. This is the case now and has been the case since forever.

Ah, good old moral relativism, one of the biggest delusions of all! Moral relativism leads to a lot of human suffering. There is absolute good and absolute evil. When one holds the view you hold, there is nothing that is not permissible to you. Sure, you can tell yourself, "Oh, that is always wrong for me, but it's right for them, so who am I to judge ..." But all that does is make you feel better for rationalizing having just made that act morally permissible.

For example, you can say you find child marriage to be wrong, but in India they hold child marriages. You can say then that who are you to judge them if child marriage is right for them, but all you've really done is tacitly admitted that despite your stated objections to child marriage, it must not be all that wrong because you're willing to allow it continue because other people would prefer that it go on.

Ergo, child marriage is then OK for you, too.

Moral relativism leads to take no strong moral stance on anything. At least not in any meaningful way.

AfterInfinity
reply to post by Serdgiam

 

Whatever. I am my own master.

Beliefs do not equate to reality. I am sure you know this though.

You can argue with me, but I hope you don't expect an answer from thin air, because I'm done with this tangent of discussion. I don't intend to meet any "maker" such as the OP is describing.

There is no argument to be made, and its entirely in line with the OP. Why be afraid of "meeting" someone, or something, that we come into contact with every moment of every day? The very statement begs the question as to how someone, or something, could be omnipresent and at the same time you could "meet" them on a single occassion.

The world, this planet, is certain to end at some point. I am of the belief that it is more likely to come from ourselves than anything else. I also think that if anything has come up that could be called some sort of "Mark of the Beast," the best candidate is electronic tattoos. Which, at least according to some, is a precursor to an end times event.

Combine that with technological advances that most arent aware of, and you have a recipe for exactly what the "end times" may be. It is just constructed within our own cultural context, which will certainly differ from one that existed thousands of years ago.

reply to post by St Udio


Haha yea, that is def a plausable scenario. Just like the recreation of the state of israel. Another self fulfilled prophesy.

The thing that amazes me. Is if any god comes to this planet and starts destroying the place and killing certain demographics, then how would this differ in appearance to an alien invasion. Wouldnt it be an alien invasion?

Wouldnt a being that fits the description given in the bible, be an alien?

reply to post by Serdgiam


Oh, I get it.

Then if you mean we are all bound by the rules of this universe and space time, then yes, we are hardly our own masters in that sense. We can no more fly or walk through walls than we can metamorph into animals.

This is why so many are enthralled with magic and superheros, IMO. They are stories where you can pretend to flagrantly bend and outright break the known laws of the universe, and that's just fun.

reply to post by ketsuko


You got it!

And it is fun isnt it? Especially when it comes into our dreams, lucid or otherwise.

We simply arent the master, even if you dont involve religion at all. Even the things we can seemingly control are all done within the constraints that are inherent to the universe. Just because we can decide between a choice or three doesnt mean those choices themselves arent controlled by the laws of the universe itself, as well as their outcome.

Its all pretty interesting to me, though it is a subject that most dont really attempt to understand. Its in that vein that I struggle to understand how someone could "meet" their maker, when that maker is constantly and continuously around us at all times. Depending on personal beliefs, how that "maker" is defined will differ, but not the overall concept itself.

On an off topic note, using these consistent constraints can be used to our advantage, as seen by John Nash with his "equilibrium" ideas. If we know that our choices MUST fall into a pre-ordained plane, then we can figure out the best and most efficient way to reach that point through mathematics.

Vasa Croe

Stormdancer777

Vasa Croe
So what is coming? You have not specified anything nor given a date. Is this just a belief of yours or is there any actual proof to your claims?

There wont be a date according to Scripture, and the answers to your other question can be found in the same book,

So...just one day out of the blue something is going to end mankind on Earth? And since when is NASA in the bible? There are no specific about what is going to happen and this IS a prediction and prophecy thread so I would think there would at least be some kind of prediction or prophecy....as this thread stands it is just saying that someday something will end us all....wow...great prediction.

Oh that and the OP has made similar claims for a while now.....all FAIL

No he did not say it will end the earth. Watch the skies in the next forty days. The end will not come until the temple has been rebuilt in Israel and Satan has set himself upon the thrown and declared himself over god.

Despite the disinfo hear nasa has lied and will continue to do so.

Think of it like this, it is fact that we know there are several underground bunkers for the rich and elite. We have all seen these on the teli so no denying this. Now if nasa knew that something was coming and even had the possibility of hitting and causing damage what would they do.

Would they warn society first and create panic, so much so that the elite and rich could not get to their bunkers . Or that the people would have time to find and overwhelm those bunkers. No, they would bait and switch, they would lie, and they would give those in control that they are loyal to time as they needed.

There are many independent astronomers, amateur and professional that have refuted nasa data and information. They, nasa have the ability to move cameras and give us clear pictures but they didn't and don't, why. We know why...

For those scoffers what about your loved ones. Do you really want them living with no hope, no purpose, all the while they feel it, they know they have a spirit, a soul. These are things you deny but deep inside even you know is true. Do you really believe no part of you remains after death. What happens to you then.

So many thousands of witnesses who have died and come back to proclaim god is real, and likewise the darkness, the evil. So you dismiss these witnesses, but is this truly the fate you want for your loved ones.

Even if it were just a chance would you not think positive and try.

Hmmmmm for many the answer is a negative, a no. That is sad, what loneliness you must feel. That loneliness and emptiness can be replaced with the love of christ, it will cost you nothing but will gain you everlasting life. You choose........

The Bot

reply to post by benrl

Because lets be honest, if your an atheist than this should fall under such speculative threads as Ghost, Aliens, Big Foot, or just about any speculative topic on ATS. But its Christianity that gets the wild hair up their asses...

I was thinking that myself earlier, for some reason they flock to the Christian topics, that in my opinion shows their true colors.

I really don't mind the debating, but I do dislike the snarky comments, I would never dream of insulting a Buddhist or Hindu or even the atheist.

Stormdancer777
reply to post by benrl

 

Because lets be honest, if your an atheist than this should fall under such speculative threads as Ghost, Aliens, Big Foot, or just about any speculative topic on ATS. But its Christianity that gets the wild hair up their asses...

I was thinking that myself earlier, for some reason they flock to the Christian topics, that in my opinion shows their true colors.

I really don't mind the debating, but I do dislike the snarky comments, I would never dream of insulting a Buddhist or Hindu or even the atheist.

edit on 013131p://bTuesday2013 by Stormdancer777 because: (no reason given)

Your posts and words here on ATS prove that. You and Ketsuko are great ambassadors for your faith. There are many others on ATS, too.

It is very encouraging to read honest faith in action. Please don't ever be put off writing here because of the nasty side of ATS. The right people will get to see your words and they will look like gems to such people.

reply to post by Serdgiam


Of all the sentient entities in this world (excluding "supernatural" ones) who has the most control over my life? Over whether I live or die, or exercise cruelty or kindness, or feel hope or despair? Who gives me the drive to continue or the uncertainty to quit? Who decides what my life means, and what is done with it? Who decides whether I love or hate? Who decides what I feel, believe, or think? At the end of the day, who determines the value of everything that is me and how that value is applied?

I'll give you the answer: me. Life is 10% what happens to me and 90% how I react to it. That's a lot of control on my part. And that's close enough to say I am my own master. End of story.

ketsuko
First off, I don't attend church. I haven't found one I like in this city. However, I do regularly give what I can and help where I can, both people I know and those I don't. We don't tend to do garage sales, for example, we donate to orgs like Salvation Army or Goodwill or just plain hand stuff on to people we know who can use it. But in general, I don't talk about the stuff I do. I just do it. Pick up the person whose car is broken and needs a ride or the old lady struggling through unshoveled, snowbound sidewalks to get from point A to point B. Buying the extra groceries to put in the bucket before you leave the store. Sticking the extra cash in the donation tins. What's the point in talking about it?

Works aren't for your own aggrandizement. Not to say, "See how good I am."

I wasn't trying to get you to say how great you are. I was trying to establish that you aren't one of millions of other Christians who take credit for Christian works while not doing anything of their own just because they are Christian.

You mistake the point. Evil has always been, will always be here. It's the pattern of events that is different and fit what we were told to watch for, and if we're right, nothing we're seen yet will compare to what's to come.

And of course, horrible things get done for all kinds of excuses. Mao killed millions to construct his perfect, communist, atheist utopia as did Stalin and Pol Pot. The Japanese and Germans ran inhuman POW camps as well the concentration camps where people were killed for simply being who and what they were. North Korea today kills you seemingly on a whim and for not loving the state enough.

Pattern of events? The pattern of events are so vague that people have been attributing all sorts of things to the end times since the Roman empire. Things like the Twin Towers falling, Israel becoming a country again, new Pope who goes against established church doctrine, etc are all just the modern day views of it. There is NOTHING more special about the times we live in than any previous age of man.

Ah, good old moral relativism, one of the biggest delusions of all! Moral relativism leads to a lot of human suffering. There is absolute good and absolute evil. When one holds the view you hold, there is nothing that is not permissible to you. Sure, you can tell yourself, "Oh, that is always wrong for me, but it's right for them, so who am I to judge ..." But all that does is make you feel better for rationalizing having just made that act morally permissible.

For example, you can say you find child marriage to be wrong, but in India they hold child marriages. You can say then that who are you to judge them if child marriage is right for them, but all you've really done is tacitly admitted that despite your stated objections to child marriage, it must not be all that wrong because you're willing to allow it continue because other people would prefer that it go on.

Ergo, child marriage is then OK for you, too.

Moral relativism leads to take no strong moral stance on anything. At least not in any meaningful way.

edit on 10-12-2013 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)

Ok, point out just ONE person who was absolutely evil or good to the core. Even Hitler loved his wife, not to mention he pulled Germany out of crippling poverty and hyperinflation. Mother Teresa lost her faith towards the end of her life. That's the thing, these things do not exist. Humans need to define what is morally sound and what isn't. Being that humans are social animals, we need to adapt morals that allow us to live with other people comfortably. Therefore the ONLY morality that has any credence is the Golden Rule. If you don't have any problem with what is being done to you or doing to yourself, then who am I to say that it is wrong?

reply to post by Stormdancer777

Again. You two are particularly vocal on this site, and particularly in this subject. Its fine to have your beliefs, but when you make claims that cannot be proven or falsified by anything except "its what you feel to be right" then expect someone to speak up. Understand that we are only showing you what we need to take you seriously. But you seem to ignore and dance around that whole physical evidence thing. I particularly am vocal towards christians because, living in the southern united states, i am constantly bombarded with "the word" and it bothers me the same way that someone making the claim that 3x3=29 Would, show me the proof. Because if you can get them to take that one small step towards logic and see that, how you feel about any physical property, doesnt change anything about the reality of how the universe works.

And i ask this question. Can you show me an example of anything that is non physical?

reply to post by Krazysh0t


Who said anything about labeling people as good or evil? Although I'm sure Charles Manson and Jeffrey Dahmer had some redeeming qualities if we try to look, the monstrous things they did far outweigh the good. Were you in the crowd who felt that Tookie Williams should have been preserved for writing a children's book?

Regardless, I am talking about actions.

You are talking about moral relativism. Either something is or is not wrong. It doesn't matter if someone else doesn't have a problem with it. Now that doesn't mean you have to go out of your way to stop it or even that you should or can, but that doesn't mean you have to approve of or accept it either.

Adultery is a good example. It's just plain wrong and I've never seen anything good come of it. I don't care when the parties involved don't seem to have a problem with it. It's still wrong, and I won't hesitate to say so. You likely wouldn't go there being far more libertarian than I am.

Although, I do agree with you that the majority of the evil in the world is human evil. We choose to hurt each other. That we can do this is part of having the knowledge of good and evil. We know we can do it and we choose to. We are a pathetic species at times. For every truly noble human who chooses to do good things, ten more would rather be selfish or outright evil.

But then the last two are easy and often feel good.

Stormdancer777
reply to post by benrl

 

Because lets be honest, if your an atheist than this should fall under such speculative threads as Ghost, Aliens, Big Foot, or just about any speculative topic on ATS. But its Christianity that gets the wild hair up their asses...

I was thinking that myself earlier, for some reason they flock to the Christian topics, that in my opinion shows their true colors.

I really don't mind the debating, but I do dislike the snarky comments, I would never dream of insulting a Buddhist or Hindu or even the atheist.

edit on 013131p://bTuesday2013 by Stormdancer777 because: (no reason given)

My husband and I often wonder why atheists don't realize that no one seems more obsessed with God and the Bible than they sometimes tend to be.