Are Alien Debunkers trying to Deny Ignorance or Are they trying to Block the Truth?

reply to post by AlienView

theirs is not logic it is a symptom of brainwashing.

and I can't stand the majority of MUFON types who think only they are the "authorities" when it comes to this subject. I don't need you to measure a few trees and then try to tell me what I saw.

it's really an individual's intuition that senses these things the best and some people don't have the ability or perhaps willingness to even go there. It's too much of a slippery slope for those types and fear has a lot to do with it.

RUFFREADY

Mirage Men - Kindle edition by Mark Pilkington.

Any relation to Karl?

draknoir2

RUFFREADY

Mirage Men - Kindle edition by Mark Pilkington.

Any relation to Karl?

Not sure, I glanced at page (link below) and he does have a brother named Mark.

"Karl has an older brother and sister from whom he appears to be estranged. His brother Mark was something of a womanizer." (source below)


I looked ha ha, here www.pilkipedia.co.uk...

reply to post by AlienView

Some of the smartest dummies
Can't read the language of Egyptian mummies
An' a fly go a moon
And can't find food for the starving tummies
Pay no mind to the youths
Cause it's not like the future depends on it
But save the animals in the zoo
Cause the chimpanzee dem a make big money
This is how the media pillages
On the TV the picture is
Savages in villages
And the scientist still can't explain the pyramids, huh
Evangelists making a living on the videos of ribs of the little kids
Stereotyping the image of the images
And this is what the image is
You buy a khaki pants
And all of a sudden you say a Indiana Jones
An' a thief out gold and thief out the scrolls and even the buried bones
Some of the worst paparazzis I've ever seen and I ever known
Put the worst on display so the world can see
And that's all they will ever show
So the ones in the west
Will never move east
And feel like they could be at home
Dem get tricked by the beast
But a where dem ago flee when the monster is fully grown?
Solomonic linage whe dem still can't defeat and them coulda never clone
My spiritual DNA that print in my soul and I will forever Own Lord

Definitely paid to debunk

AutumnWitch657
reply to post by redoubt

 

There are people on this planet who are very very smart. I mean way smarter than anyone we are likely to run into on these boards.
Most of us will never even meet people that are as smart as that. Those folks will never cross our paths. More like the same odds as having a royal or celebrity sit down at our dinner tables.
They are a rarity we are not likely to experience.
Of course the ego maniacs here will refuse to accept that too.

I'll take that as it was obviously intended and raise you a future yet to occur...

AlienView
You see them all the time, often the same ones, whose whole agenda is devoted to disputing almost any and all alien phenomena and assure you that it must be nothing more than misinterpretation of events or an out and out hoax. You could write the post for them as you know what they will say. Their logic is good but it is myopic and one-sided. To them phenomena that appears to be related and caused by an alien intelligence can not be so - You must be seeing it wrong and/or interpreting it erroneously. Why do they persist? Why are they trying to deny the reality of alien related phenomena? I find them to be a drag attempting to ruin what is interesting and exciting and trying to make it seem mundane and inconsequential. To listen to them you could not even enjoy good science fiction as they would assure you that it is impossible for events to so enfold . Is it not this kind of dull and myopic reasoning similar to that of religious fanaticism that wants the world to stay in a conservative backward dimension of ignorance where both the truth and the imagination can not go forward into the future? How can the alien presence be seen if those who would deny even its possibility blind you with rhetoric to the truth of what is occurring and what you are seeing? I say 'Deny ignorance' and open your minds and eyes to a universe that is much stranger and more exciting than your imagination can yet comprehend and debunk the debunkers, they add nothing but confusion to the alien enigma whose existence can not be denied.
-AlienView

edit on 3-12-2013 by AlienView because: (no reason given)

You mention 'them' and 'they', who exactly are you referring too? Care to prove some names? Organizations? That would help to actually answer your question...

It is the right of any thinking person with a brain to demand evidence for outlandish claims. There is a difference between skepticism and debunking.

All of us should be skeptics. If UFOlogy needs anything it needs MORE skepticism, MORE coherent thought, MORE evidence gathering beyond "I saw it on TV or Youtube", MORE intelligent discussion beyond "believer vs skeptic" or "skeptics are evil debunkers trying to hide the TRUTH".

UFOlogy needs more CRITICAL and RATIONAL thought in general. And that can only come through skepticism.

In short UFOlogy cries for respectability and to be treated fairly but when you look at the joke it has become since the days of hard scientists such as Dr. James MacDonald, Dr. J. Allen Hynek, Dr. Jacques Vallée, Dr. Bruce Macabee and Terence Dickenson being at the forefront of the field then its easy to see why people ask for better evidence today than we had back then.

Instead we get crap like Stephen Greer charging money to tour an "invisible UFO", proven hoaxers like Richard Hoagland, Roger Leir and his 'secret alien frequencies", Stan Romanek, and a guy with funny hair whose history channel show has become an internet meme.

Its a field full of people who just want to see their face on TV.

In an era of surveillance cameras on every corner and everyone with an HD camera on their phone and anyone with $25 being able to make a radio controlled "UFO" it is asking for someone to be VERY ignorant not to say "show me your evidence".

In an era where real aliens might be discovered any day now through actual real science, is it any wonder the average person is less gullible?

Is it any wonder plenty of former UFO believers are now highly skeptical of the whole subject?

Think about some of the nonsense claims we see readily proliferated amongst the hardcore UFOs as alien believers.

A great example was the "Alien City on the Moon" thread where the original poster ignored just about any and all rationality to explain why his blown up low res moon imagery showed square pixelation which he took to be a "moon city'.

It might as well have been made of green cheese as well.....

Even if you buy into the whole "well the truth is hidden in a vault by the US government" conspiracy angle, you'd be asking for your average rational person to believe than China who just sent a rover to the Moon. India, who just sent a probe to Mars, the ESA, the Russians, the Japanese (and plenty of private companies soon) to all be a party to the coverup.

C'mon, seriously?

That thread alone nearly put me off of ATS all together. It's a waste of time to argue with people who have a need to believe in nonsense.

UFOlogy for them is not some sort of makeshift scientific discipline requiring evidence and research.

It's a new religion requiring faith and belief in stories.

If you recognize your own UFO as alien belief as faith then you won't get so upset when your attempt to evangelize someone fails.

Remember that poster on the X-Files that said "I Want to Believe"?

I'd add, "But I need better evidence." to the bottom of that.

That doesn't make one a debunker. That makes one a well reasoned, rational person.

reply to post by JadeStar

It is the right of any thinking person with a brain to demand evidence for outlandish claims. There is a difference between skepticism and debunking.

All of us should be skeptics.

There is indeed a degree of skepticism that is entirely healthy. But like everything else, including belief, there is also an overdose.

Imagine a spot in a forest... far from anything but more wilderness. Put an average human there, and he/she is lost... couldn't find their way to anything. But, put a dog, a wolf, a bear etc. in the same spot? They would know the last creatures to pass that way, as well as those still nearby, by way of sensory smell, sight and hearing.

We have all of these things... in humans, it is called 'common sense'. But we set it aside because we CHOOSE to... to believe what is popular or what is political trendy at the moment., We ignore what is obvious and latch onto those things hung on a hickory stick before us.

i used to be a believer in aliens/ufo visitation until i came to this site,
Before i came here i was all over youtube video's, hoax pictures etc. thinking they were the real deal.
But since i came to ATS everything i believed has been debunked. Here you get proper analysis, debate, information, reasoning....Post a couple of video's that you claim to be ET, a photo or two maybe.

that's a load of crap. Springer told me he would have one of his top guys get on my footage (which I will supply to anyone on a silver platter), after a week or so I emailed him for any updates and he got all defensive and told me the guy had no time to look at it.

I have several different types of objects in the original files and along with footage of one I have three stills of the same thing. I've posted that information to the original files at file sharing sites for anybody to upload and scrutinize as much as they wanted and nobody really cared to do anything other than make jokes and ridiculous assumptions.

It's been years now and I really couldn't care less if somebody believed what I recorded is or isn't what I say they are. I was there and at those times had had more sightings of unconventional craft than I got on camera. I know what had happened and I don't need anyone to validate any of it in any way. My only agenda now is to get the point across to people that they had better get their heads around this now because it's not going away.

Modern humans are probably the dumbest humans by far, and I personally think if you don't believe in aliens, and especially aliens in our past, you have a chemical imbalance.

redoubt
reply to post by JadeStar

 

It is the right of any thinking person with a brain to demand evidence for outlandish claims. There is a difference between skepticism and debunking.

All of us should be skeptics.

There is indeed a degree of skepticism that is entirely healthy. But like everything else, including belief, there is also an overdose.

I disagree. When dealing with a true unknown there is no such thing as being too skeptical.

Look, to believe everything at face value without good evidence short circuits the process of finding that which you seek.

There are plenty of REAL mysteries in the universe. I and many other people do not need made up ones to occupy our time, especially when the real ones are far more compelling than 50s sci-fi masquerading as "truth".

The risk of not being skeptical of plenty of these stories is that one misses out on the real mysteries.

Imagine a spot in a forest... far from anything but more wilderness. Put an average human there, and he/she is lost... couldn't find their way to anything. But, put a dog, a wolf, a bear etc. in the same spot? They would know the last creatures to pass that way, as well as those still nearby, by way of sensory smell, sight and hearing.

I disagree with you. An average person familiar with the outdoors is actually better at finding their way out of a forest if they know how to navigate via the position of the sun and stars and are attentive listeners.

I'm not sure what your analogy has to do with belief vs skepticism.

Despite their heightened senses of smell, sight and hearing none of those dogs, wolves, bears have reason nor will invent anything of a technological nature.

We have all of these things... in humans, it is called 'common sense'.

Common sense is not always the best sense. Our bloody history is full of things done in the name of common sense. Everything from the Spanish inquisition to the African slave trade to the Salem witch trials were done in the name of "common sense".

Spare me common sense, for logical sense. The latter takes more work but is more rewarding in the end.

AlienView
British scientists claim to have found proof of alien life

A team of British scientists is convinced it has found proof of alien life, after it harvested strange particles from the edge of space.

The scientists sent a balloon 27km into the stratosphere, which came back carrying small biological organisms which they believe can only have originated from space.

Professor Milton Wainwright told The Independent that he was "95 per cent convinced" that the organisms did not originate from earth.

This is also one of the more dubious claims of finding extraterrestrial life. It's been challenged for several reasons and will probably be refuted as something unknown but terrestrial in nature.

The difference between that process and what goes on in UFOlogy is the researchers making the claim, published a paper in a peer reviewed journal and are open to criticism of it. They also have put forth evidence they actually gathered to support their claim.

If they want to continue with their claim after its refuted they will gather better evidence.

That's how science works.

reply to post by JadeStar

I disagree. When dealing with a true unknown there is no such thing as being too skeptical.

So... if we don't yet know it, it probably doesn't exist?
About 1900, a paper from the Royal Academy of Science stated that powered, heavier than air flight was... impossible. Even after the Wright Brother's initially flew, they stuck by that.

Gotchya...

Your life, your choice.

We turn away what we DON'T know, we stand no chance of ever knowing it.

redoubt
reply to post by JadeStar

 

I disagree. When dealing with a true unknown there is no such thing as being too skeptical.

So... if we don't yet know it, it probably doesn't exist?
About 1900, a paper from the Royal Academy of Science stated that powered, heavier than air flight was... impossible. Even after the Wright Brother's initially flew, they stuck by that.

Great example. Do you know why the Royal Academy of Science stated that? Because they made an assumption based on a logical fallacy which seemed to make "common sense".

They essentially did bad science.

Luckily for us, the Wrights prevailed.

And again, that's how it works. There are countless examples of this throughout the history of science.

Gotchya...

Your life, your choice.

You're right. Perhaps more than you know.

You see, my future job, I hope, is to help find real aliens through astronomy and astrobiology.

It would be silly to say, 'hey, why bother looking for the aliens out there when this weather balloon photo proves the aliens are down here.'

We turn away what we DON'T know

Who is this we?

Science turns TO that which we don't know, in order to understand the universe better. Period.

reply to post by JadeStar


My dear (my apologies... I get wordy sometimes)... we DO so often turn away from what we don't know or... maybe better said, what we are not supposed... or even WANT to know.

Comfort in this society is king. Truth falls back to a place of insignificance. Once we close our eyes to possibility, the age of discovery ends and the one of submission... begins.

redoubt
reply to post by JadeStar

 

I disagree. When dealing with a true unknown there is no such thing as being too skeptical.

So... if we don't yet know it, it probably doesn't exist?
About 1900, a paper from the Royal Academy of Science stated that powered, heavier than air flight was... impossible. Even after the Wright Brother's initially flew, they stuck by that.

Gotchya...

Your life, your choice.

We turn away what we DON'T know, we stand no chance of ever knowing it.

edit on 3-12-2013 by redoubt because: typo, addendum

YES! That is why I've become so fed-up with the same skeptical debunkers posting the same 'well maybe you haven't proved what you say you saw was real and it is probably a hoax anyway type of thinking'. I would rather someone with some imagination misleads me for the moment so I can keep my mind open to possibilities. In the field of ufology the truth is both ambiguous and enigmatic. Yes some things might be hoaxes or the work of those with an over-active imagination but I don't care - I'd rather read the imaginative mind then the sun revolves around the Earth paradigm that Galileo had to put up with. In the end science and the truth will become apparent and no harm will be done by allowing the imaginative to keep the doors upon to possibilities in the meantime. Can you imagine watching a good science fiction film while a debunker is whispeing in your ear - don't believe it there is nothing out there? My point being that even if a lot of UFO stuff is nothing more than science fiction it is still interesting - I don't need the debunkers to tell me untrue and it can't have happened that way - Eventually the truth will be known but for now the imagination and the potentials of the imagination must be kept open lest some hypothetical alien race passes us by as dull, stupid and lacking in creative imagination.

RUFFREADY


I looked ha ha, here www.pilkipedia.co.uk...

Love the link!

Turns out it's an excellent tool for U.F.O. research

reply to post by bottleslingguy


Just because it did'nt happen with you and your video, does that mean it does'nt happen at all? Of course not. Now that would be a load of crap.
i dont know what version of ATS you be on, but ive seen plenty of debate here about aliens/ufo's. Having said that, would you post the video and the stills you have again, i'd like to see them. You sound quite sure of them. Post them here in this thread, unless you want to start a thread with them.
Or post a link to them, whichever suits.