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Are Alien Debunkers trying to Deny Ignorance or Are they trying to Block the Truth?

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posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 08:02 AM
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reply to post by AlienView
 


i used to be a believer in aliens/ufo visitation until i came to this site,
Before i came here i was all over youtube video's, hoax pictures etc. thinking they were the real deal.
But since i came to ATS everything i believed has been debunked. Here you get proper analysis, debate, information, reasoning. Every ufo video, bar 2 or 3, has been shown to be something other than ET.
Which is only a good thing.
The people on here that you claim to be debunkers, have years of experience watching ufo video's.
They know a balloon when they see one.
it would be great if a lot of the stuff was ET, but alas there's no hard evidence.

Post a couple of video's that you claim to be ET, a photo or two maybe.




posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 08:02 AM
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reply to post by AliceBleachWhite
 


You know the first thing I thought after reading your post is : If I were and Alien or someone trying to hide the alien crap. I'd say exactly what you did !!


But, I don't know. Just fun stuff to ponder about. Your probably right ...



edit on 3-12-2013 by RUFFREADY because: SPELLING ITS EARLY



posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 08:03 AM
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reply to post by AlienView
 


I am one who wants aliens to be real. I am also one who has never seen any ( zero zilch nada) evidence which I find convincing. I have seen purported evidence which at first glance is compelling but which is then found to be dubious.
I am not a paid shill. God I wish I was as I am unemployed right now and Christmas is breathrng down my neck. My question to anyone who swallows this hook line and sinker is why do you believe that anyone who doesn't buy into it is here to keep the truth from you?
Because the real truth is that there is nothing out there that answers the question to the satisfrction of all and if there was then there would be no way to contain it within the confines of the government these days. Too many eyes and too much social media would guarantee the cat would be out of the bag.

As Fox Moulded said "I want to believe"
I just don't want to taste poop in my mouth at the same time



posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 08:19 AM
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Years ago I saw a shiney silver disk (more like a tire or donut viewed on its side) while swimming at Virginia Beach. At least forty other people saw it too.
One man in the crowd said it's a weather balloon and then everyone walked away satisfeed.
I continued to watch it and it seems that I glanced away for a few seconds and oops it was gone.
I went home later that day and googled weather balloons and they all looked like balloons or rather like the classic inverted teardrop shape we all associate with children's balloons. Wider at the top and very narrow at the bottom. What I and everyone on that beach saw did not look like a weather balloon.
Funny thing was I was just as thrilled seeing what had been identified as a weather balloon as I was thinking it was a craft as I had never seen one of those with my own eyes either. And which is the reason I had continued to watch it. How or why I suddenly lost sight of it bafflee me.
So now I don't know what I saw and there is no way to settle the issue.
edit on 3-12-2013 by AutumnWitch657 because: cuz typing on a tablet sucks the big one.



posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 08:42 AM
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reply to post by AutumnWitch657
 


Read your post and thought of this book:


Mirage Men: An Adventure into Paranoia, Espionage, Psychological Warfare, and UFOs Hardcover

by Mark Pilkington (Author)


The above book starts off with a sighting that the author had a lot like you did


A very good read.



posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 08:42 AM
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reply to post by AutumnWitch657
 


Just an FYI, the idea of the inverted teardrop shape of weather balloons is when they are launched and at lower altitudes. When they rise very high, the gas inside expands due to the lower atmo pressure. At that point, the balloon shape will change to the classic "disc" shape as the excess material (the thin part of the teardrop shape) is filed with the expanding gas. This is why the balloons are not filled to capacity when launched, if they did when the gas expanded as it rose in altitude, it would explode the balloon.

I wonder if the man you referred to in your case knew this, and simply did not explain it to those around him why.



posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 08:44 AM
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Direct Response: they are trying to block the truth. Perhaps playing someone's agenda



posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 08:45 AM
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reply to post by AlienView
 


There ought to be a distinction between a 'skeptic' and a 'debunker' in your post but there isn't.

There is a difference.

A debunker is somebody who will accept absolutely no evidence supporting, in this case, the existence UFOs. The debunker stands at the opposite end of the scales to the 'irrational believer', who will accept any rubbish thrown their way. For both these factions personal beliefs are the dominating factor when it comes to discussing topics such as UFOs.

A skeptic is somebody who will attempt to apply rationale, logic etc. in order to find the truth. What is just plain stupidity is when a person who uses a skeptical approach when assessing potential evidence is called a shill or the claim is made that they have an 'agenda' or that they 'work for the government'. In my view, once a poster has made statements to this effect concerning another member who is skeptical of so called evidence, that former poster has simply decloaked themselves and revealed their ineptitude to the world.

I might add that both 'debunkers' and 'believers' will use deception to bolster their view point.





edit on 3-12-2013 by seabhac-rua because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 08:46 AM
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reply to post by redoubt
 


There are people on this planet who are very very smart. I mean way smarter than anyone we are likely to run into on these boards.
Most of us will never even meet people that are as smart as that. Those folks will never cross our paths. More like the same odds as having a royal or celebrity sit down at our dinner tables.
They are a rarity we are not likely to experience.
Of course the ego maniacs here will refuse to accept that too.



posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 08:56 AM
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reply to post by RUFFREADY
 


Thank you. Is there an e edition. I can load into my e reader?
Yeah the man on the beach was the shill. Nothing to see here. But even a weather balloon Is interesting to the average Joe.



posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 09:02 AM
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AutumnWitch657
reply to post by RUFFREADY
 


Thank you. Is there an e edition. I can load into my e reader?
Yeah the man on the beach was the shill. Nothing to see here. But even a weather balloon Is interesting to the average Joe.


And here an example of the one of the major attitudes that skeptics face.....anyone that does not "believe with no evidence" is a shill...period. Not that they may have knowledge of something that other observers do not, just, "oh, you don't believe the same, you are a shill" response.

GO ahead, wallow in your own ignorance, having a mutual alien masturbation session with each other.

I'm done..... < trying to my roll eyes so far back in my head that they spin back to the front >



posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 09:07 AM
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reply to post by Krakatoa
 


Every picture I saw was balloon shape and I never said how high this thing was did I?
Did I ? You know what happens when you assume.
The item was close enough that I could not block it holding my hand in front of it
I can not say how high but it was not a tiny speck in the sky it was large in my view.
The item was larger than my hand held in front of it. Am I explaining this well enough? Somehow I don't think I am.



posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 09:10 AM
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reply to post by AutumnWitch657
 


OK, that is more information that was not explained in the original post....now had you said that from the start, I would have had more information from the start. Thanks for clarifying and providing more information.



posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 09:12 AM
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reply to post by Krakatoa
 


You assume again I am not assuming when I say that there is a pattern in your responses AM I ?
The line about the shill was to illustrate a point. It is not my point of view in reality.
Gosh you are doing more to prove the OP right than anyone. Way to go.






PS:You will know when I am coming as I moan pretty loud. Mental masturbation indeed.
edit on 3-12-2013 by AutumnWitch657 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 09:38 AM
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seabhac-rua
reply to post by AlienView
 


There ought to be a distinction between a 'skeptic' and a 'debunker' in your post but there isn't.

There is a difference.

A debunker is somebody who will accept absolutely no evidence supporting, in this case, the existence UFOs. The debunker stands at the opposite end of the scales to the 'irrational believer', who will accept any rubbish thrown their way. For both these factions personal beliefs are the dominating factor when it comes to discussing topics such as UFOs.

A skeptic is somebody who will attempt to apply rationale, logic etc. in order to find the truth. What is just plain stupidity is when a person who uses a skeptical approach when assessing potential evidence is called a shill or the claim is made that they have an 'agenda' or that they 'work for the government'. In my view, once a poster has made statements to this effect concerning another member who is skeptical of so called evidence, that former poster has simply decloaked themselves and revealed their ineptitude to the world.

I might add that both 'debunkers' and 'believers' will use deception to bolster their view point.





edit on 3-12-2013 by seabhac-rua because: (no reason given)



Ah yes, the assignment of labels and their arbitrary definitions is the most important thing. It makes marginalization of opposing views [and evidence] so much easier.




An actual truth will survive skepticism and resist "debunking". It needn't, and shouldn't be shielded from scrutiny with special pleading. Such is the difference between defending belief and seeking truth.



posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 09:43 AM
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And out they came.


What's even more interesting is when you tie the aerial phenomenon to top secret military craft. Then you get even more coming out of rocks....




posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 09:54 AM
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reply to post by draknoir2
 


I agree.

When it comes to "labels and their arbitrary definitions" unfortunately this is the lingua franca here on ATS these days.



posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 10:04 AM
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AutumnWitch657
reply to post by RUFFREADY
 


Thank you. Is there an e edition. I can load into my e reader?
Yeah the man on the beach was the shill. Nothing to see here. But even a weather balloon Is interesting to the average Joe.


Yep


Mirage Men - Kindle edition by Mark Pilkington. Download it once and read it on your Kindle device, PC, phones or tablets. Use features like bookmarks, note taking ..blah blah blah

Hope that helps



posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 10:06 AM
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reply to post by AutumnWitch657
 





You know what happens when you assume.


you seem to know as you assume much,

let me quote




I mean way smarter than anyone we are likely to run into on these boards. Most of us will never even meet people that are as smart as that. Those folks will never cross our paths. More like the same odds as having a royal or celebrity sit down at our dinner tables. They are a rarity we are not likely to experience. Of course the ego maniacs here will refuse to accept that too.



These are all assumptions are they not or I am simply an ego maniac, I am ego driven on may fronts but I don't assume to know as much about other anonymous members as you do.

Maybe you are the ego maniac that refuses to accept your own advice you hand out to others.


edit on 3-12-2013 by InhaleExhale because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 10:17 AM
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reply to post by AlienView
 


There is no one correct answer to your question.

Realistically speaking, you have to break this issue down before the truth will become apparent. For one thing, human beings are motivated by a massive range of factors. A persons psychological development, for example, has a massive effect on how they interact with people, and how they are likely to deal with certain stimuli. Psychological development itself is effected by many things, and therefore to come up with a general case answer to this question is a fools errand. The best you can hope to do, is to understand on a case by case basis, the real reasoning behind a persons thinking, and how they came to think in that way.

Personally , I am aware that the mathematical probability of our being alone in the universe, is so small as to be discarded as a possibility, and that even that tiny probability is shrinking with every exo-planetary discovery made by deep space telescopes, with every discovery of extremophile lifeforms on our own planet, each adding weight to the probability in favour of the existence of alien intelligences. I often wonder about how a meeting between ourselves and a hypothetical alien species would work, dependent on which sorts of people would be involved, and what the possibilities are in terms of how the aliens would be, how advanced, based on what type of elements, breathers of what kind of atmosphere.

However, my ability to entertain the possibility does not make me incapable of objectivity and good scientific rigor. There are folks here on these boards, who jump to the maddest of conclusions, based on no physical evidence what so ever. Some yell proof at the merest hint of an unexplained pixel showing white on a black background! I believe that alien life is out there, because I have a healthy respect for, and understanding of the sciences. That also means, that the only proof that I will accept of actual visitation, can be tested, re-tested, placed in sample jars, run through a gas chromatograph mass spectrometer, its particles counted, weighed, measured, its composition mapped and understood by anyone familiar enough with chemistry to read the results...

Some might say that I am asking an awful lot, but actually these are only the same demands placed upon persons who intend to prove a case of murder, and as terrible and important as criminal justice is, compared with answering questions like "Have we got proof that we are not alone in the universe as a species" it is nothing. This question is as old as mankind, and in my view, to accept anything but the most stringent and rigorous scientific endeavor as proof, would be a great folly, and cheapen the entire issue in a way which I find totally unacceptable.

There are some who would have us believe that you can PROVE alien lifeforms have visited our planet, by meditation. There are some who would have us believe that they can prove the existence of alien bases on the moon, using low resolution images showing nothing but pixelated mountains and crater edges. These ideas NEED shooting down, because they are bogus, misleading, they are lies, and to believe them en masse makes a laughing stock of the whole UFOlogy field.

I want the truth, but I ONLY want the truth. Those who dress mutton as lamb will get nothing from me but fury and indignation, and that is all they deserve.



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