Pope Francis rips capitalism and trickle-down economics to shreds in new policy statement

NewAgeMan
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

He's obviously referring not to free market capitalism, but a certain type and style of capitalism.

National Capitalism would work pretty well too. Yeah I just invented a new term lol. Get rid of the federal reserve, hit all imports with heavy tariffs, lower taxes considerably on the middle class, keep them high for the rich, do away with DHS beauracracy, stop the wars, stop foreign aid until we balance our budget, less enviromental laws, more enforcement, etc.

The pope can say anything he wants, and even if he means what he says, what happens next will be interesting. Personally I am too tired of broken promises to take him seriously so I am not going to hold my breath.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


The Pope is working to "raze the bastions" (look it up), to bring the Lord closer to the people where the rubber really meets the road, while at the same time hitting the wicked right where it counts, by revealing the chains that bind them, and the means by which they can be liberated.

My hope is that he'll start to really employ the reason and logic of Christ to place a series of what I call "double-binds" on them from which they cannot escape and the more they struggle or "kick against the goads" only the tighter those binds will become.

At this level, you have to play spiritual hardball.

As far as "networks" go, he could tap into the SMOM (Sovereign Military Order of Malta) organization, where we find the mega CEO's, CIA founders, etc etc. the a-holes in chief or many of them.

He knows where the evil lurks, and is working, I think, to remove the devil "every hair and feather".

So as we stand at the cusp of a new age, the super rich and "powerful" ought to be given every reason to panic in fear of being left on the outside, looking in for a short glimpse at what could have been, from the outer darkness.

And there is and will be a demarcation threshold point which will draw that distinction and begin to differentiate the point of departure, separating the sheep, from the goats. There are no two ways around it. "In so far as you did it, or failed to do it.. unto the least of my people, you did, or failed to do it, unto me." (See, Jesus didn't screw around with half-measures)

So his first volley, is in the form of an open invitation to be most helpful in the cause of their salvation, but if he's really smart, at some point he'll start to figure out a way to get the "Chinese handcuffs" on them, which seem harmless enough, at first... until the real struggle begins, to try to get them off..

A learned Jesuit is smart enough to make that happen too.

So he's being very generous and Christ-like in his initial approach, but even Jesus had an angry side. What he's saying to them in effect is, please the Lord and he'll smile on you and your life, and that of your children and your children's children.

He doesn't mention, yet, the possibility of the angry face of God, which is very merciful of him given who and what we're dealing with, whether the evil and wickedness of the "elite" on the one hand, or God and Jesus Christ on the other!

Religion is about people and people need jobs to survive.

So it is good that a Pope talks about capitalism.

However Pope has missed a basic issue. The White man is in a blind race to replace human labor with machines for last 400 years. This has come to a point now that most of the labor is now replaced with machines, requiring fewer humans to do the economically productive jobs.

While number of productive jobs have declined, the number of humans have increased.

This is the real reason for chaos in society as many people compete for the same productive job.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


U r referring to corportism. Capitalism is about the free market and fair competition.

In the US we have corportism, which is the merge of government and corporations. We use to have capitalism but not anymore, we only have small pockets of capitalsim.

These people preaching socialism r really corportist. Because corportist needs socialism so they can control the entire economy by a few men.

I'll believe this crap when the church divests itself of all the investments and corporations they own and control around the world.

Then, at least, they'll be practicing what they preach.

Until then....yawn.

GargIndia
Religion is about people and people need jobs to survive.

So it is good that a Pope talks about capitalism.

However Pope has missed a basic issue. The White man is in a blind race to replace human labor with machines for last 400 years.

White man? credibility lost.

How about leaving the animosity and PC racism at the firewall.

I could really go there.. India? the country that has overpopulated itself to near starvation and where EVERY citizen (darn near) is trying to get a job from a "white man" country.

I guess all the engineers from India are doing what exactly?

reply to post by HanzHenry


You take offense at the term 'white man'. Sorry this term is not coined by me.

There are multiple races on earth at this time. The words - white/yellow/brown/black are generic terms used for them.

I have no problem in calling a race by some other term or name - you specify.

The gist of my post is that the labor has been displaced by machines. Indians face the same fact as others.

India already has huge unemployment and under-employment. The real unemployment/under-employment in India is more than 30% of workforce.

The real unemployment/under-employment in USA/Europe is also quite high though State welfare reduces hardship.

reply to post by Xcathdra


Maybe the change starts with this pope then eh?

I'm not catholic but I do understand why this is so important info as so many people in today's world are catholic or listen to the pope. I wonder if this "declaration" is another reason the embassy in the Vatican is closing?...

If the church is to survive they must attract young people, this is a first step. IMO

Xcathdra
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

I really don't think the Pope should be throwing rocks while he is living inside a glass house.

Vatican banking scandal...
Vatican's refusal on child molestation over the years...

to name just a few scandals...

For a religious person I would have thought he would know the old adage don't judge unless ye be judged yourself.

How can't you love a pope who doesn't to live in the pope palace and instead rents his own small house in the Vatican? He is known to live a simple life even when he was still a cardinal. He is shaking up the Vatican financials. He is doing a lot of cleaning in the Vatican. You gotta love that pope.

LDragonFire
If the church is to survive they must attract young people, this is a first step. IMO

'

Before it attracts young people it must first stop abusing the really young people. Then go after the child molestation issues that is running rampant among its organization then go after capitalism.

www.boston.com...

If I were to believe in a God and Devil story line , I would say what better disguise for the devil than the Vatican church.

IMO

He and the Queen of England own the most lands on this planet so since he's such a fantastic guy why don't he institute the return of all the assets and lands stolen back to the indigenous peoples?

“As long as the problems of the poor are not radically resolved by rejecting the absolute autonomy of markets and financial speculation and by attacking the structural causes of inequality, no solution will be found for the world’s problems or, for that matter, to any problems,” the pope said in the 224-page document that essentially serves as his official platform.

Which reminds me of George Orwell's 1984 sign on the gate . . .

All pigs are equal, but some pigs are more equal than others

I like the nugget of gold in the message - Financial equality
- but realistically in this world it is unlikely and unattainable for the foreseeable future.

But what can we do? If we see a need in the world and we can help, then we have the power to make a difference in someones life, buying a cup of hot soup for a homeless person at lunch, would make their day, it gives them hope that they could survive another day. Donating to charity or raising money for charity, someone once told me who had benefitted from a charity, its not the money, its the fact that I could see people cared.

When we act directly we demonstrate our love and equality. Which reminds me I need to do more!

Just wanted to say something in defense of Francis.

As a lifelong Catholic this Pope is my all time favorite. He drives a used car and doesn't have a chauffeur. People are suspecting that he disguises himself as a Priest and goes out at night to give alms to the poor, as he did when he was a Cardinal.

I follow him and the Vactican news on FB, I read his homilies and the thoughts he shares. He shares the message of Christ in a manner that simple people can find the wisdom they need.

I note that he sees dialogue between nations and dialogue between religions are priorities in understanding and accepting each other. I also note that his efforts are appreciated by religious and political leaders.

His message is hope. He loves people and they sense it. I do believe he is medicine for a hurting world. He said, early on that he wants a poor Church. I see him moving in that direction.

He is headstrong and won't play ball in the political or faith arena. By that I mean, he is honest and will not be corrupted.

I'll leave it to an American Bishop to rebut the press's negative commentary on his criticism of Capitalism. It is a short article I hope you read it before you condemn the man for stepping on your sacred cow.

Bishop counters dismissals of Pope's economic warnings

reply to post by sad_eyed_lady


Nice thoughts.

I agree with Pope that Capitalism has gone too far. Huge parts of the populations are left without jobs. State welfare IS NOT a replacement of a paying job.

reply to post by oxford


Issue is not financial equality. Everybody agrees that is not possible.

At issue is a value based and rule based system, which offers adequate opportunity to people to earn honest bread.

The current monetary, and economic system is highly manipulated.

All workers cannot be scientists and engineers. There will be tailors, construction workers, factory workers etc. The broad-base economy which used to be there absorbed people of all skill levels. Now a lot of people work in high-stress service jobs that actually add little real benefit to the economy. A lot of people are simply left out - either in the beginning itself or in the churn.

tothetenthpower
It seems Good Old Pope Frank has some words for capitalists:

Source

“As long as the problems of the poor are not radically resolved by rejecting the absolute autonomy of markets and financial speculation and by attacking the structural causes of inequality, no solution will be found for the world’s problems or, for that matter, to any problems,” the pope said in the 224-page document that essentially serves as his official platform.

“I am interested only in helping those who are in thrall to an individualistic, indifferent and self-centered mentality to be freed from those unworthy chains and to attain a way of living and thinking which is more humane, noble and fruitful, and which will bring dignity to their presence on this earth,” the pope wrote.

“Some people continue to defend trickle-down theories which assume that economic growth, encouraged by a free market, will inevitably succeed in bringing about greater justice and inclusiveness in the world,” Pope Francis wrote. “This opinion, which has never been confirmed by the facts, expresses a crude and naïve trust in the goodness of those wielding economic power and in the sacralized workings of the prevailing economic system.”

Have I mentioned how much I enjoy this new pope? I worry that conservatives in the US though will see him as a black sheep of sorts, ruining or making their religion more modern or progressive.

I would suggest that they take a good look at what Jesus had to say about all this and realize that the Pope has simple re-iterated those remarks in one way or another during his last 6 months of really shaking things up in the religious community at large.

What do you think ATS? Will the Pope coming down hard on the economy and those who run it, continue to erode the power of the Vatican in the US and abroad?

~Tenth

he's attempting to clean up the mess made by his predecessors. which is why they fired the last guy, he was still old school elitist at the core and they realize times are changing. they also realize organized religion is leaving our world, in the not so distant future, that doesn't mean spirituality is leaving, just the old mindset of controlling the people through religion.

i think it's an admirable attempt at helping all those they tortured, murdered and controlled for so long, through various means. me personally, i don't care about the past and will hold nothing against anyone trying to improve, themselves and our world.

Willtell
It is great that the Pope teaches these so called “ Christians" what they suppose to believe in and pracice.

I posted a thread with numerous( underneath) versus in the bible saying God abhors the greedy and those that don’t care for the poor and downtrodden.
The thread was buried. I CANT EVEN FIND IT!

People don’t like to hear the truth

THEY CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!


Here are examples of what the Bible says about the poor:
Jibe these versus how we know these people to behave!

Jesus said: Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

Proverbs 29:7 “The righteous care about justice for the poor, but the wicked have no such concern.”
Deuteronomy 15:10 “Give generously to him and do so without a grudging heart; then because of this the LORD your God will bless you in all your work and in everything you put your hand to.”
Psalm 41:1 “Blessed is he who has regard for the weak; the LORD delivers him in times of trouble.”
Proverbs 19:17 “He who is kind to the poor lends to the LORD, and he will reward him for what he has done.”
Proverbs 22:9 “A generous man will himself be blessed, for he shares his food with the poor.”
Isaiah 58:10 "And if you spend yourselves in behalf of the hungry and satisfy the needs of the oppressed, then your light will rise in the darkness, and your night will become like the noonday."
Jeremiah 7:5-7 "If you really change your ways and your actions and deal with each other justly, if you do not oppress the alien, the fatherless or the widow and do not shed innocent blood in this place, and if you do not follow other gods to your own harm, then I will let you live in this place, in the land I gave your forefathers for ever and ever."
Matthew 19:20 “‘All these I have kept,’ the young man said. ‘What do I still lack?’ Jesus answered, ‘If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.’"
Luke 14:12-14 "Then Jesus said to his host, ‘When you give a luncheon or dinner, do not invite your friends, your brothers or relatives, or your rich neighbors; if you do, they may invite you back and so you will be repaid. But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.’"
Luke 12:33-34 "Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will not be exhausted, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."
Proverbs 14:31 “He who oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God.”
Isaiah 10:1-3 " Woe to those who make unjust laws, to those who issue oppressive decrees, to deprive the poor of their rights and withhold justice from the oppressed of my people, making widows their prey and robbing the fatherless. What will you do on the day of reckoning, when disaster comes from afar? To whom will you run for help? Where will you leave your riches?”
Jeremiah 5:28 “‘Their evil deeds have no limit; they do not plead the case of the fatherless to win it, they do not defend the rights of the poor. ‘Should I not punish them for this?’ declares the LORD. ‘Should I not avenge myself on such a nation as this?’”
Amos 5:12 “For I know how many are your offenses and how great your sins. You oppress the righteous and take bribes and you deprive the poor of justice in the courts.”
Luke 6:24 " But woe to you who are rich, for you have already received your comfort."
Proverbs 14:31 “He who oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God.”
Proverbs 19:17 “He who is kind to the poor lends to the LORD, and he will reward him for what he has done.”
1 John 3:17 But if someone who is supposed to be a Christian has money enough to live well, and sees a brother in need, and won't help him--how can God's love be within him
John 3:18 Little children, let us stop just saying we love people; let us really love them, and show it by our actions.
1 Sam. 2:8 He lifts the poor from the dust-- Yes, from a pile of ashes-- And treats them as princes sitting in the seats of honor. For all the earth is the Lord's And he has set the world in order.
Prov. 19:17 When you help the poor you are lending to the Lord--and he pays wonderful interest on your loan!
Prov. 14:31 Anyone who oppresses the poor is insulting God who made them. To help the poor is to honor God.
James 1:27 The Christian who is pure and without fault, from God the Father's point of view, is the one who takes care of orphans and widows, and who remains true to the Lord--not soiled and dirtied by his contacts with the world.
Psa. 82:3 Give fair judgment to the poor man, the afflicted, the fatherless, the destitute.
Psa 82:4 Rescue the poor and helpless from the grasp of evil men.
Prov. 28:27 If you give to the poor, your needs will be supplied! But a curse upon those who close their eyes to poverty.

edit on 26-11-2013 by Willtell because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-11-2013 by Willtell because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-11-2013 by Willtell because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-11-2013 by Willtell because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-11-2013 by Willtell because: (no reason given)

That's all well and good but please, please, please point out where Jesus said to take from one man to give to another.

He talked about the benefits and grace of individual charity and generosity, not about governmentally forced wealth redistribution.

"....where did Jesus say to take from one man to give to another", I have heard this before. Jesus would say that was stealing, said that way. If you say you are a christian, should you not follow his lead and forgive the thief, for the punishment of death is everyone's punishment.

He did say concerning taxes, "Give back Caesar's things to Caesar, but God's things to God." Mark 12:17

He said in same chapter that the second greatest commandment is:

"You must love your neighbor as yourself". Perhaps you should read one of Jesus's teachings called the Beatitudes in Matthew 5. God is love.

I don't know why today's christians want to misconstrue His teachings. His heart is not like ours. He did not ignore the sickness and poverty around him and he is not a Liar. He tried to help and give poor people hope at his own risk.

MOMof3
"....where did Jesus say to take from one man to give to another", I have heard this before. Jesus would say that was stealing, said that way. If you say you are a christian, should you not follow his lead and forgive the thief, for the punishment of death is everyone's punishment.

He did say concerning taxes, "Give back Caesar's things to Caesar, but God's things to God." Mark 12:17

He said in same chapter that the second greatest commandment is:

"You must love your neighbor as yourself". Perhaps you should read one of Jesus's teachings called the Beatitudes in Matthew 5. God is love.

I don't know why today's christians want to misconstrue His teachings. His heart is not like ours. He did not ignore the sickness and poverty around him and he is not a Liar. He tried to help and give poor people hope at his own risk.

Yeah, I don't know why today's Christians want to misconstrue his teachings from being personally generous and giving and twisting them to support a socialist political agenda. Christ very much encouraged generosity and selflessness for people. However, He did not, in any way shape or form, suggest that taking from one to give to another was the same thing. What grace does one gain if his giving is forced upon him? Zip. Christ talked about the merits of generosity, not wealth redistribution.

I give of myself and what I have because I love my fellow man. I do not take from my fellow man to give to someone else because I also love my fellow man.