Montana man arrested for fishing, states that "natural law" supersedes US courts.

AutOmatIc
Again, my make-believe reality, in reality, has the same merit as yours and everyone else's. I too can make up rules...I just don't FORCE other people to live by them, yet I have been FORCED to live by everyone else's rules my entire life. Therein lies the rub.

Well, you want to live in a society, you observe the common rules. Like you want to post here, you pay attention to the T&Cs. Sorry...that's life in civilisation.

crazyewok
It should be limted by a court system completly unconnected to the goverment, which should limit or cancell any laws that are contary to what is acceptable, and there should be a constitution,bil, or a charter for them to follow.

At that point your court system has become your supra-state. How will you limit the court state which is now effectively in charge of the state? How will corruption in your court system be checked?

What state has ever been found to have actually followed their constitution, bill, or charter... especially the generations after those who created them?

How will a court system limit activities of the state which are off the record and "unofficial"?

crazyewok
If that fails its up to the people to grow a pair of balls and rise up.

So the people rise up. Against who... exactly?

The entire magic and power for those who want to hide behind the modern state system is there isn't anyone to point to. Just abstract organizations that can't possibly be held accountable in any meaningful way. Even if someone is found guilty, they are always low enough that they are little more than shields to take the attention away from whoever is pushing buttons above them.

Being libertarian clearly I'm being my own devil's advocate. But I see no wisdom in following the same script those in power have been giving us for years.

The heroes/people rising up in the traditional "viva-la-revolution" story telling way is great for making books, movies, and video games... but it wouldn't be marketed so heavily to us if it actually *worked*. Revolutions around here don't happen because the people rise up, but because the outcome is something desired by those in control and the people and their passions are the tools to accomplish them.

The successful revolutions in the past aren't due to people rising up spontaneously, but by a few people being propped up and supported by the hand opposite of the one they are resisting. Hands that are more friends than enemies to each other relative to the people they "touch".

JohnnyCanuck
Well, you want to live in a society, you observe the common rules. Like you want to post here, you pay attention to the T&Cs. Sorry...that's life in civilisation.

And if someone were to decide they don't want to live in civilization? Any advice that can actually be done without always having the threat of civilization finding them in violation of something?

Surely you're not going to suggest the civilization we two find ourselves in has ANY problem forcing people and cultures to participate against their will?

crazyewok
reply to post by LewsTherinThelamon

 

I was under the impression if you dont like the neigbour hood rules on were you live you are free to move?

That is a red herring.

I was pointing out the flaw in the assessment of the market value of property.

Why would a lawn-sized garden bring down the value of your neighbor's home, and not a lawn made of grass?

It's just a philisophical question, and I think the answer has quite a bit to do with the mentality of the United States. We are a culture that is obsessed with aesthetics.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

What you can and can't do with your property is governed by municipal standards...by-laws. If you don't like them, don't move there.

That was sort of my point. In the United States, ownership and the rights of property were two of the fundamental concepts that worked as the bedrock of our Union.

If your scenario predates the by-law, it is grandfathered. Lotta huffing and puffing here on non-issues.

No, it is a very big issue. The government (local, state, or federal) does not have the de jure authority to issue any law governing what an individual does to their property. That entire philosophy is antithetical to the republic. They get away with it today because of loopholes manufactured into our legal system.

The big issue here is the question of actual ownership of the land that your house sits on. We used to buy allodial titles for land, now we only buy deeds; and there are huge differences between the two.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

Well, you want to live in a society, you observe the common rules. Like you want to post here, you pay attention to the T&Cs. Sorry...that's life in civilisation.

Not quite.

That line of thinking is a perfect example of Jean Jacques Rousseau's book The Social Contract.

Basically, the individual has to alientate himself in order to live in a civilised society by giving up his natural rights for the benefits that the safety of society offers.

Jean-Jacques Rousseau stresses, like John Locke, the idea of a social contract as the basis of society. Locke's version emphasised a contract between the governors and the governed: Rousseau's was in a way much more profound - the social contract was between all members of society, and essentially replaced "natural" rights as the basis for human claims.

We did not give up our natural rights to create our society in the US. In fact, the concept of natural rights was the bedrock of our Union.

AboveTopSecret is a privately owned website, the T&C was not decided upon by the whims of a majority--they were created by the people with the rightful authority to create them--the owners.

reply to post by WeAre0ne

That was as beautiful to read as the man in question was to listen to.

JohnnyCanuck
Well, you want to live in a society, you observe the common rules. Like you want to post here, you pay attention to the T&Cs. Sorry...that's life in civilisation.

Ah, interesting...I don't want to live in yours or anyone's made-up pretend "civilization". Take a look around you. This world this "life" is wrong, I never asked to be born...but I was. I live in the U.S.A. and never agreed to the "rules" that wealthy slave owners forced upon me. Nobody asked me what pretend "rules" I would like to live by, and force upon others by violence...because I would never do that.

Your statement "that's life" is one of the control mechanisms installed upon you by your slave masters in this reality. By just saying such statements, you reaffirm their make-believe reality/rules, because you feel as though you can do absolutely nothing to change this reality...which I don't blame you for, because at this point, there is very little anyone can do to alter/change the current system which we are all enslaved to. It has been designed that way by many humans. But what makes their pretend reality more valuable than mine or yours? The fact that they have the ability to FORCE you to live by their rules.

It is wrong. No man should live in chains. Whether those chains are monetary, literal, or figurative. In the end everyone dies...and all those rules mean absolutely nothing.

Change must happen in this world for humans to be able to truly live free. And by change I mean, your make-believe pretend civilization must end/change...monetary systems must fall.

AutOmatIc
[Change must happen in this world for humans to be able to truly live free. And by change I mean, your make-believe pretend civilization must end/change...monetary systems must fall.

Well then, I guess you are destined to be one unhappy camper.

reply to post by Helious

I'm not sure what point you and many of the responses are trying to make.... that we need no government? That there are no costs involved in fish and game management that requires funding from licenses? That there should be no one to check that people aren't cheating and taking too many fish so others can also enjoy fishing? That there shouldn't be limits on how many fish can be caught or what season can be off limits so the fish can spawn? That knowing how many fishermen are out there gives us an idea of how to manage our resources? I see a lot of "do whatever the heck you want any time you want get rid of government (its our government and we can change things at the ballot box if we are responsible citizens), and If any of you think there is no need for government or rules or laws that are reasonably made because not everyone knows how to behave in a functional society...wow.

Laws are just written by simple humans, court is not something special. For me only real laws are that is made by our creators who are millions of years old technological civilization. Simple rule is that living must not cause harm to others, it is right to fish only to yourself.

That was funny, "Case dismissed"... Just argue with the judge until they don't want to hear anymore. I bet she told that officer who gave him the citation, that if he comes back to her court room he'll be out of job.

AutOmatIc

JohnnyCanuck
Well, you want to live in a society, you observe the common rules. Like you want to post here, you pay attention to the T&Cs. Sorry...that's life in civilisation.

Ah, interesting...I don't want to live in yours or anyone's made-up pretend "civilization". Take a look around you. This world this "life" is wrong, I never asked to be born...but I was. I live in the U.S.A. and never agreed to the "rules" that wealthy slave owners forced upon me. Nobody asked me what pretend "rules" I would like to live by, and force upon others by violence...because I would never do that.

Your statement "that's life" is one of the control mechanisms installed upon you by your slave masters in this reality. By just saying such statements, you reaffirm their make-believe reality/rules, because you feel as though you can do absolutely nothing to change this reality...which I don't blame you for, because at this point, there is very little anyone can do to alter/change the current system which we are all enslaved to. It has been designed that way by many humans. But what makes their pretend reality more valuable than mine or yours? The fact that they have the ability to FORCE you to live by their rules.

It is wrong. No man should live in chains. Whether those chains are monetary, literal, or figurative. In the end everyone dies...and all those rules mean absolutely nothing.

Change must happen in this world for humans to be able to truly live free. And by change I mean, your make-believe pretend civilization must end/change...monetary systems must fall.

edit on 24-11-2013 by AutOmatIc because: (no reason given)

edit on 24-11-2013 by AutOmatIc because: change

Guess what then? You're free to move somewhere with ideals more suited to your deranged notions. Might I suggest Somalia or Syria?

reply to post by gladtobehere


lol!!! "I am the living man" Thats awesome
Yes sir, I guess you are.

They should let that old boy go. Leave him alone.

reply to post by ShadeWolf


Yes, the inevitable "love it or leave it" installed answer, a phonetically memetic programmed response. Guess what...not everyone on this planet has the ability to make the choice to leave and live wherever they want. This is one of the main problems of this world. There is absolutely NOWHERE anyone could go that is not infected by the mass insanity of other people's weird make-believe rules. International bankers have made sure that if you try to do that, and if you are successful, they will use their violent ways to FORCE you into submission to their bizarre pretend system.

You find me an Island somewhere that does not use money, make it available that I could travel there, live there the rest of my life in peace, with the absolute promise that nobody in the world will ever attempt to bother me with their pretend laws/rules...then I would gladly acquiesce your request.

But you can't do that can you. Their bizarre thought process/system has infected every single human being. We have forgot that the entire system is make-believe, pretend, and relies upon our compliance/agreement to function. We humans have every right to make up our own reality, and should never ever have to be enslaved by other humans weird realities. But we have been enslaved...and this makes many people very uncomfortable when you actually point this out. So much so that they try anything to distract, to derail, and to attack the messenger thereby obfuscating the actual truth. That you are indeed a slave to another human's bizarre reality.

Meh, don't let it get to you. People have turned into government and tech dependent zombies. The man was fishin, big woop. Hardly worthy of incarceration let alone a fine.

'DURRR YOU CANT FISH WITHOUT THIS LITTLE PAPER HERE DURRR, IM CONSTABLE TARD RESPECT MA AUTHORITAH"

That so? See I thought you just took one of these here poles and put some bait on the line and chucked it into the water there. see. Then wait for a little tug. Nothin to it. LOL Is that paper there.. some sorta new bait?

What a joke.

reply to post by BardingTheBard


Well your only other option is a society with no laws or regulation what so ever.

One were your lakes and lands are full of pollution or beeing overhunted and fished because there is no one stpping such from happing.

Were one can dump and sewage plant next to your house or worse.


Great like that kind of life. Maybe try somalia and give a try I hear it working out great for them....


For me Id rather take 99% freedom than the hell some of you want or are to stupid to see what would happen if all laws and regulation were got rid off.

Dont get me wrong im no fan as it stands now and think alot rules and goverment coulc be cut. But common sense stuff no.

Nephalim
Meh, don't let it get to you. People have turned into government and tech dependent zombies. The man was fishin, big woop. Hardly worthy of incarceration let alone a fine.

'DURRR YOU CANT FISH WITHOUT THIS LITTLE PAPER HERE DURRR, IM CONSTABLE TARD RESPECT MA AUTHORITAH"

That so? See I thought you just took one of these here poles and put some bait on the line and chucked it into the water there. see. Then wait for a little tug. Nothin to it. LOL Is that paper there.. some sorta new bait?

What a joke.

edit on 24-11-2013 by Nephalim because: (no reason given)

If it wasnt his land then what right did he have to fish there?>


He should have brought HIS OWN land.

ShadeWolf

Guess what then? You're free to move somewhere with ideals more suited to your deranged notions. Might I suggest Somalia or Syria?

This is the problem with the extreme libertarians.

They dont know a state with there dream values already exists and that somalia.

Only it hasnt worked out so well for them.

Though in there small minds it propabaly cause they are black and muslims. White god fearing Americans would have no such trouble

crazyewok

Nephalim
Meh, don't let it get to you. People have turned into government and tech dependent zombies. The man was fishin, big woop. Hardly worthy of incarceration let alone a fine.

'DURRR YOU CANT FISH WITHOUT THIS LITTLE PAPER HERE DURRR, IM CONSTABLE TARD RESPECT MA AUTHORITAH"

That so? See I thought you just took one of these here poles and put some bait on the line and chucked it into the water there. see. Then wait for a little tug. Nothin to it. LOL Is that paper there.. some sorta new bait?

What a joke.

edit on 24-11-2013 by Nephalim because: (no reason given)

If it wasnt his land then what right did he have to fish there?>



He should have brought HIS OWN land.

Fine, who owns that land?