If you don't believe in Aliens you are CRAZY!

Xtrozero
As a side note...

Is it not strange that the technology describe in these abductions is not as advance as one would seem but more inline with what the abductee would know? Advance aliens moving levers and wheels might seem advance in the past, but it seems that even today's technology was well beyond anything these abductee would see.

No, actually; I don't think so.

They were in at least a semi-confused state trying to make sense out of something that was likely very much like modern touch screen controls. For someone in the early 1960? Not an improbable interpretation.

I remember the late 1950's and early 60's. The common concept of "high tech" controls was dials, knobs, buttons, levers...just as you say.

I made that sort of think my career, and worked for 40 some years as an hardware / software engineer. The controls used here, on Earth, haven't changed much at all since 1960. The format, the "representation" has changed. The controls are more virtual, but, frequently, the physical motion to operate the control is still pretty much what it was in 1960. So, somewhat confused over the actual controls? Sure, you betcha!

The funny thing is that just a few years ago the prevailing skeptical opinion was that life was likely to be very rare in the cosmos. As our detection capabilities increase, it becomes more and more apparent that they were flat wrong, as the "believers" have been saying all along.

The "vastness" of the cosmos, may indeed, suggest you could explore til the end of time and never find another group of people, but it fails to consider we have already found many habitable worlds without even going out there yet.

As our detection abilities increase (they are now working on ways to detect city lights on alien worlds), we will pinpoint exactly where to go once we gain the ability to go.

In any event, its funny to watch the skeptics amend their stance without ever conceding they are wrong, or were wrong. Its now like the default position that the universe is teeming with life.

Eventually people are gonna have to account for the multitudes of encounter cases. The legitimate unknowns. Etc.

Its like there are 20 gigantic arrows pointing to the idea that at some point in the past ANOTHER civilization pointed THEIR telescopes at our blue marble and said "hey, there is probably life there. Let's go check it out", but the skeptics still just keep in lock step with whatever they are currently teaching at University. Its comical.

Hell, even the fact that numerous gov officials have openly stated UFOs are real and most likely originate some place else doesn't do it for them.

Then of course there are also those paid to disinform...

ManInAsia
Only one has been intelligent?

How could you say that? It's ridiculous. Animals all shows intelligence and intelligence is related to circumstance and the environment. So birds might show a higher spatial awareness and intelligence than us, heck even flying insects probably do! Are humans really that intelligent? Please think about this question for a while, examine our behaviors.

Intelligence is robust and has been on this planet for 100's of millions of years already. It hasn't died out even though there have been major changes in the types of predominant species and climate and atmospheric chemistry.

I agree though that it did seem to take a long time for intelligence animals to launch off this planet. HOWEVER, once launched off the planet, what's to stop an intelligent race spreading through the galaxy?

Put it this way, once the mammals (dolphins and whales) managed to figure out a way to live in the ocean or rivers all their lives, they spread through the entire world. So why would an intelligent civilization not keep spreading either?

As they spread, they evolve, branch off and divide, conquer and split. They don't stay static, and they don't have any real boundaries in space.

So it only takes one space faring species to launch to seed many cilivisations that spread out and split over time. But space faring species could be in the thousands or millions, so the odds are really good to me that intelligent life has spread through the entire galaxy already. Why don't we see them? That's another question....

We also don't need to confine ourselves to the idea of civilisation. We can simply think of intelligent species adapted to roam space, just like the example of our whale above. They don't necessarily need to be super smart or organised, just to have evolved the right attributes to spread across space with relative ease. The same thing likely happens with bacteria and simple microbes too of course.

edit on 10-11-2013 by ManInAsia because: (no reason given)

Yes, animals show intelligence relative to their requirement to survive and create. To forage for food, build shelter, attract a mate, etc. within their environment. All the needs for that species to be successful and exist. That's how all life has worked for billions of years through billions of different life forms on Earth. Yet, humans evolved in that same environment and go beyond those basic needed skills. Our cognitive abilities are greater than animals, for example. Our ability to communicate on many different levels and to think abstractly. To contemplate what's beyond life on Earth and put that curiosity to work using our unique articulation skill connection between mind and hand. Our ability to turn thoughts into complex designs. All traits not needed for survival. When talking about life on other planets, 99.9% will be this "simple" type of life.

We have to use Earth as our only example of how life will evolve elsewhere. When we step back and look, all of the life forms that have lived here had the simple circle of life purpose. Survive, procreate, and die. That's billions of life forms, over billions of years. Do you believe it's just coincidental that every life form that has existed on Earth followed this simple path? No, it's obviously purposeful. In order to have intelligent life evolve on another planet, life will begin more or less as on Earth slowly with a 99.9% chance that it will be simple. And like I said, even with that minute percentage, intelligent life may very well still develop within scales of billions.

I've always found people who refuse to even contemplate that life could exist somewhere out there as vast as space is, as we know it or as we couldn't comprehend it to be equally inflexible in most areas of their lives. Humans have this wonderful ability to say or think "What if?" Using that phrase for ANYTHING and EVERYTHING in life should be a daily occurrence even if it leads you nowhere.

How could we have all the wonderful or horrible things in life we do if no one ever said "What if". We'd still be living in caves and freezing cause no one would have been curious enough to discover a use for fire for one.

I've met people who literally refused to have a discussion with me if it wasn't backed by scientific or religious "proof". I was told "If all you have is "What if" scenarios then I have nothing to say to you because I don't live in a fantasy world (ie. You're just to stupid to talk to) I KNOW this and this is fact and no amount of guessing will ever change that." I just though "HUH?" wow what a sad and uninteresting life this person must have.

I don't think there is much that can be "absolutely" proven and we will never grow or learn or just have fun exploring if we don't question damn near everything.

I mean it was "proof" at one point the sun orbited the earth or that the earth was flat (although I guess some people still believe that one) See what I'm saying? Thought is our greatest freedom even if we are locked up in our bodies or by some evil do'er they can never take away our ability to THINK unless we let them.

When you are at your worst let your mind wander inward and just imagine, like reading a book but you are the author and the pages are your mind. It's really quite fun and relaxing lol.

Personally I believe in Alien life and I'm pretty sure they have visited us, I don't know which version of visitations I believe though. I tend to lean more towards "We came and showed you the way now we are watching to see if you learned" point of view. I don't see why they would want to interact with us at this point since we are greedy, insane, controlling and inherently evil "as a species". Individually there is good but just look at the world today and sorry I think most humans are evil. Unless I'm wrong and we are the cattle ranch.

So I just keep asking myself "What if?" and looking for info or experience or something that makes sense. That's my criteria, it has to make sense on some level.


Lil

PS I have a theory on souls that I still kick about in my head occasionally. That we are shells for alien "children" or criminals basically and that could be why they 'watch' us hehe

What if everything was created in a single instance the whole universe at the same time? Wouldn't life everywhere in the universe be developing very similarly like we are here on earth? If so then why would we think that life elsewhere would be capable of inter galatic travel? I will admit I am not a big fan of the big bang or any of that but it is the what if part that I find interesting, just my opinion though.

tanka418
The top predator on the Earth is perhaps one of the most social. Lesser predators it becomes varied. Canines, also very social, even cross species (dogs/wolves and humans), Cats, not so much, Same goes with many others; some greater, others lesser in their extent.

Not exactly on topic but just want to reply, the Cats as not being really a social animal is actually a complete fallacy. Cats unlike alot of animals are actually highly malleable in their social behavior... they (at least the domestic and its nearest wild cousin the african wild cat) are not the aloof individuals of common perception.

Cat society is often molded by the environment they find themselves in, as well as situations and can easily change quickly and readily does so, where some animals or groups of animals would fall apart the same situation in a group of cats can morph into a new working system. Everything from seasonal cohabitation, complete cohabitation, equitable territory setups in small areas but with ample food supply and of course most commonly cohabiting with a completely different species or two (ie our domestic cats, and sometimes not so domestic) when any grown cat is fully capable, and naturally driven to live alone and hunt (a dog would never fair and would most likely live a poor or short life as a lone cat). I have 9 cats on a fairly large section of land, they are both comprised of tamed feral and true domestic examples, they happily cohabit with each other, even sleep next to one another (or on top) there is a pecking order but its more based on genetic relation ship (surprisingly our male cats get on very well with each other, even the one who isnt related to the other 2) and friendships (often its completely unexpected which ones chose each other for companionship) and even come winter you can find the couple who despise each other curled up near each other by the fire in a mutual pact of temporary peace.

The cat who walked alone... only when it suited them.

Dogs see you as another dog in the pack, a cat knows you arent a cat, since a cat would normally never treat another cat like it does its humans... so this alone shows a very high level of social awareness and intelligence for an animal like a cat to ignore their natural drives and cohabit with another species on their own terms (as any cat owner would attest). The fact even a feral cat (which is often more fearful of humans than a true wild cat) can suppress and adapt its social behavior to its advantage (food handouts) and regain a semi tolerance for humans shows a level of understanding about itself and others some animals simply appear to not possess.

Oh and one final thing, of all the animals of the world, the Cat is one of only a couple of animals to have actually self domesticated itself, and out of those it was the most truer self-domesticator... what other animals besides man changes itself?

ok that was off topic, but i cant help but respond to mention of cats

Brotherman
What if everything was created in a single instance the whole universe at the same time? Wouldn't life everywhere in the universe be developing very similarly like we are here on earth? If so then why would we think that life elsewhere would be capable of inter galatic travel? I will admit I am not a big fan of the big bang or any of that but it is the what if part that I find interesting, just my opinion though.

Your forgetting life here on Earth has been virtually aborted 3 or more times since the planet formed. Imagine with a man like being evolved from the first epoch had it never ended in a near mass extinction event, they'd have a good few billion years on us development wise, or they might have wiped themselves out after a few hundred thousand years... or maybe they actually did, makes you wonder...all traces of our existence on this world would be gone in under a couple of hundred years, and these events happened 100,000 times as many years ago as that, maybe the mass extinction events of the past werent entirely natural or any traces of past human like life on this world would be gone forever after being wiped out by such events and time.

reply to post by AliceBleachWhite

AliceBleachWhite
The universe is beyond vast ...
... Thus, the only aliens that matter are those that we could detect, observe and potentially even interact with.Thus far, we've none.

What a cunning train of thought, he he, kudos. Well, you are absolutely correct. Except for a tiny omission. You declare: "Thus far, WE've none." Correct. But what about those hundreds of alien spieces that have been observing us, detecting us and interacting with us - THEY have. Oops.

tanka418
Really?!!! Only ONE intelligent species on the Earth? Please don't say that around my Wolves, they may bite. Humans are NOT the only intelligent species on the Earth. All of the complex lifeforms and some of the "no-so-complex" are plenty intelligent. My "puppies" for instance; would prove far better at survival than you if the conditions were even slightly more primitive. So much for your "advanced intelligence"

The issue is; "what is intelligence". Terrestrial Humans have not figured this out as yet. But some aspects are rather known; learning, reasoning. some like to put communication in there, others would point out abstract reasoning, and other more "complex" idea about intelligence. But these are only abstract idea about intelligence, what it truly IS remains unknown.

Again, my "puppies": Are capable, as in; I have observed, abstract reasoning; Wolves seem to have concept of time. Sense of Humor; not really sure I quite go along with the "lupine" practical joke. They also communicate via "speech"; yet, I've noticed what appears to be a some-what non-standardized spoken language among Wolves. There are other traits that I have noticed. Now then; you should note that I said I observed these things, I have not recorded this data, not do I intend to. What I have noticed in my "puppies" is for our consumption, not yours. But, that does not lessen the reality.

Humans are not the only intelligent species on Earth, not by a long shot.

Yes, all animals have the survival instinct, that's not being debated. All of what you described about your puppies is drawn from their inherit need for survival. Even being playful, as in both cats and dogs, can be part of a bonding between packs. Non-verbal communication such as tail waging for dogs or purring for cats is again a survival instinct. Showing loyalty and love to an owner is a survival instinct as well. But, animal levels of intelligence has it's limitations. There's no inherit need for animals to desire anything other than their existence or existence of their kind.

We're not speaking about the ability to live within it's own planet, every life form that has survived has accomplished this. We're speaking about traveling beyond the planet. That takes a special and completely different level of intelligence. An intelligence that has never evolved in the history of Earth, except once. What do you suspect the reasoning is behind this? By example, it seems logical that a planet has absolutely no need for a species to travel outside it's own environment or planet. Natures self preservation and survival of that planet is dependent upon the simple form of life that has existed. Everything has a purpose. I guess you could apply a Gaia hypothesis here.

reply to post by teslahowitzer


I agree so much with you, and there just isn't any need for any of it, that is the sad part. Our whole human existence (could) be wiped out from natural disasters because of it.

Stari

Hello all,
for some reason the site won't let me post a new topic so I'll post here ~
I'm a film maker in London UK, I'm making a film based on my own and other people's real experiences with UFO's and alien encounters.
Please look at my campaign.
Thank you for your time.
www.kickstarter.com...

Austentatious
Hello all,
for some reason the site won't let me post a new topic so I'll post here ~
I'm a film maker in London UK, I'm making a film based on my own and other people's real experiences with UFO's and alien encounters.
Please look at my campaign.
Thank you for your time.
www.kickstarter.com...

Read the T&Cs..
Cant start a new topic until you have 20 posts...

Austentatious
Hello all,
for some reason the site won't let me post a new topic so I'll post here ~
I'm a film maker in London UK, I'm making a film based on my own and other people's real experiences with UFO's and alien encounters.
Please look at my campaign.
Thank you for your time.
www.kickstarter.com...

A good idea is to start an introductory thread to get to your 20 post minimum. There are lots of folks here who would probably love to chat with ya. Some pretty good research done here on this site as well. Check out the linked thread for a catalogue of good cases covered here on the boards, as well as some outstanding research efforts currently underway. (Quite proud to have three threads in the index) This catalogue was started by Jkrog. Former member. Departed early. Its a damn shame too, cuz he was truly one of the greats. If you read his threads you will see why he is so beloved around here. RIP.
www.abovetopsecret.com...


Welcome to the boards! As a film maker I am sure you have done a fair amount of research in this arena. Looking forward to seeing you contribute!

Unless of course you're just here to market your work. If that's the case then I feel ashamed for taking the time to point you towards a valuable research tool.

tanka418

Really?!!! Only ONE intelligent species on the Earth? Please don't say that around my Wolves, they may bite. Humans are NOT the only intelligent species on the Earth. All of the complex lifeforms and some of the "no-so-complex" are plenty intelligent. My "puppies" for instance; would prove far better at survival than you if the conditions were even slightly more primitive. So much for your "advanced intelligence"

That's very far fetched. Of course a wolf would do better survival wise against modern "city" man.
Humans are on top of the food chain for a reason. A pack of humans were much more dangerous than a pack of wolves - Our intelligence is our natural weapon in this world - It allowed us to manipulate our environments to our advantage (ex: making spears)

~Sovereign

reply to post by SovereignEve


Our thumbs helped us make the spears more than our intelligence.

Even crows use tools.

PhoenixOD
reply to post by JadeStar

 

The eye has evolved several independently different times through evolutionary history on Earth and there are many types of eyes. ie: your eyes are different from the compound eye of a fly as they are from birds, as they are from sharks and so on.

This where you are wrong, everything with eyes has evolved from a common ancestor that first developed eyes. I remember watching a whole documentary about it.

Correct sort of. The common ancestor had photoreception but that's a bit different from an eye.

Photoreception is phylogenetically very old, with various theories of phylogenesis.The common origin (monophyly) of all animal eyes is now widely accepted as fact. This is based upon the shared genetic features of all eyes; that is, all modern eyes, varied as they are, have their origins in a proto-eye believed to have evolved some 540 million years ago, and the PAX6 gene is considered a key factor in this.

The majority of the advancements in early eyes are believed to have taken only a few million years to develop, since the first predator to gain true imaging would have touched off an "arms race" among all species that did not flee the photopic environment.

Prey animals and competing predators alike would be at a distinct disadvantage without such capabilities and would be less likely to survive and reproduce. Hence multiple eye types and subtypes developed in parallel (except those of groups, such as the vertebrates, that were only forced into the photopic environment at a late stage).

So the eye itself developed independently in parallel across different species, bugs and animals, differently.

reply to post by JayinAR

Our thumbs were also VERY useful (obviously), however, a crow wouldn't be making a spear and utilizing it to hunt for food.
Our intelligence is what allowed us to truly manipulate our environment and cooperate with our fellow man in order to take down prey. Wolves and bears have their claws and teeth for their natural weapons, but humans have their complex brains for our natural weapon for our own survival - Take away our "evolved intelligence" and we would be easy prey.

~Sovereign

JayinAR
The funny thing is that just a few years ago the prevailing skeptical opinion was that life was likely to be very rare in the cosmos. As our detection capabilities increase, it becomes more and more apparent that they were flat wrong, as the "believers" have been saying all along.

The skeptics a few years ago never said life was likely to be rare in the cosmos. Most readily support things like SETI which would seem to indicate they think life and perhaps intelligence is common.

This is often misunderstood. Skeptics look at the math and figure there is plenty of life.....out there.

The prevailing opinion of most skeptics then and now is that there needs to be far more proof that such life is capable of covering the vast distances (at least to us) of interstellar space to come here FIRST before they even consider such life would go out of its way to pick up the local farmer to give a rectal examination as many "believers" feel is happening.

That's quite different from ruling out life or intelligence in the universe.

From the perspective of a skeptic, aliens who can not be readily seen, interacted with or detected repeatedly through technology are as good as non-existant.

Hope that clears that up.

reply to post by SovereignEve


Wolves cooperate with their fellow man as well.
Difference? Physiology.

I'm not saying we aren't more intelligent than wolves, cuz we are, but wolves and the like are also very intelligent.
We find them to be more and more intelligent all the time.

Heck, we have rivals in the intelligence department in dolphins right here on Earth.

Difference? Physiology

reply to post by teslahowitzer

Amen Brother.

JadeStar

JayinAR
The funny thing is that just a few years ago the prevailing skeptical opinion was that life was likely to be very rare in the cosmos. As our detection capabilities increase, it becomes more and more apparent that they were flat wrong, as the "believers" have been saying all along.

The skeptics a few years ago never said life was likely to be rare in the cosmos. Most readily support things like SETI which would seem to indicate they think life and perhaps intelligence is common.

This is often misunderstood. Skeptics look at the math and figure there is plenty of life.....out there.

The prevailing opinion of most skeptics then and now is that there needs to be far more proof that such life is capable of covering the vast distances (at least to us) of interstellar space to come here FIRST before they even consider such life would go out of its way to pick up the local farmer to give a rectal examination as many "believers" feel is happening.

That's quite different from ruling out life or intelligence in the universe.

From the perspective of a skeptic, aliens who can not be readily seen, interacted with or detected repeatedly through technology are as good as non-existant.

Hope that clears that up.

edit on 10-11-2013 by JadeStar because: (no reason given)

Doesn't clear it up at all.
This is what we would call revisionist history.

SETI was formed on the chance it would discover something. With what we now know, SETI is a joke. We will never discover radio signals from a distant planet. Inverse square and all that.

The prevailing opinion was that Earth was unique, and therefore life was likely to be unique as well.

Truth.
1. Ridicule
2. Oppose
3. Accept as obvious truth.


And yet again, you science types still have a mountain of evidence to address. But you choose not to and instead ridicule the "farmer" as having a fancy for rectal probes.
Good job