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Virginia Democrat Calls For Forcing Doctors To Accept Medicare And Medicaid Patients

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posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 08:58 AM
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Those who claim that doctors should be altruistic forget that there are nurses, techs, engineers, support staff that also rely on what the doctor charges.

Limiting the pay of doctors would also limit the pay of nurses, techs, general or specific support staff that also rely on the costs associated with medical care.

So by limiting the pay of doctors, because they are supposed to tend the ill and not worry about making money, you in turn, limit the pay of nurses, techs, general or specific supporting staff.

It's funny that the "imposed" altruism by progressives never affects themselves.




posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 09:09 AM
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reply to post by beezzer
 


If you ask me, doctors pay should be taken down a notch, and nurses pay etc should go up a notch. Afterall, they are doing most of the dirty work eh?

edit on Tue, 05 Nov 2013 09:09:25 -0600 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 09:11 AM
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TKDRL
reply to post by beezzer
 


If you ask me, doctors pay should be taken down a notch, and nurses pay etc should go up a notch. Afterall, they are doing most of the dirty work eh?

edit on Tue, 05 Nov 2013 09:09:25 -0600 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)


Oh hell, I'd agree to that!

But by taking all pays down, everyone associated with healthcare will make less.



posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 09:13 AM
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reply to post by Cabin
 


Construction is very much about life and death as well.... Think not? Tell that to people who have had their house collapse on them. Tell that to those people who were trying to earn a living in the sweatshop that collapsed on them. Health the connection is more direct, sure. But just like a doctor, if I do a halfassed crappy job, it's likely people will be seriously injured or killed. But I digress anyways.

Right now the doctor shortage is a manufactured thing, AMA only allows a certain amount of doctors per year. If it is busted down, and doctors are earning as much as the common construction guy, we will be seeing a real doctor shortage. Way less of a .ache to be a construction guy than a doctor. Or many other fields.

Doctors generally want to help people, yes. But you can't tell me that a part of them aren't looking forward to the time when they are making good money, and can afford a house, and will actually be financially able to retire before they croak. There is an incentive in going through med school and taking on all that debt. Take away all the incentive, then not many will be willing to bust their asses for 8+ years.
edit on Tue, 05 Nov 2013 09:17:13 -0600 by TKDRL because: can't type today ugh



posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 09:16 AM
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AlienScience
reply to post by bjax9er
 



elitism?
no
it's called liberty.

do you have a right to a portion of my life and my labor?

no you don't, i'am not your slave.


What in the hell are you talking about?

IF you are a doctor and you are providing services, then you should be required to provide that service to ALL paying customers....including Medicaid and Medicare.

This is why the medical industry should, and eventually will, be strictly regulated.




I really hope you and others on your side of the coin are employed so you can answer this question. Would you be willing to take a 1/2 or 1/3 pay cut so that the poor and needy could have access to whatever it is you provide? Would you be able to pay your bills if the answer is yes? These doctors don't just have med school bills, they have bills like the rest of us have, other debt they have incurred and the cost of daily living for themselves and their families and also the cost of running an expensive business. But please, would you right now take a pay cut right now? Yes or no and why or why not.



posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 10:07 AM
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TKDRL
reply to post by Cabin
 


Construction is very much about life and death as well.... Think not? Tell that to people who have had their house collapse on them. Tell that to those people who were trying to earn a living in the sweatshop that collapsed on them. Health the connection is more direct, sure. But just like a doctor, if I do a halfassed crappy job, it's likely people will be seriously injured or killed. But I digress anyways.

Right now the doctor shortage is a manufactured thing, AMA only allows a certain amount of doctors per year. If it is busted down, and doctors are earning as much as the common construction guy, we will be seeing a real doctor shortage. Way less of a .ache to be a construction guy than a doctor. Or many other fields.

Doctors generally want to help people, yes. But you can't tell me that a part of them aren't looking forward to the time when they are making good money, and can afford a house, and will actually be financially able to retire before they croak. There is an incentive in going through med school and taking on all that debt. Take away all the incentive, then not many will be willing to bust their asses for 8+ years.
edit on Tue, 05 Nov 2013 09:17:13 -0600 by TKDRL because: can't type today ugh


There are many jobs, which have certain degree, which can cause life or death, whether it is engineering, construction or some other field. That is why there are standards, which require the companies to do safe work.

Although nobody goes to these companies for saving themselves from dieing in the first place. When you want to have a house built, it is luxury / materialistic needs not . Whether one hires a company to build him/her a house does not affect whether he/she dies. You do not hire these companies/individuals to save your life.

Isn´t 125k a good salary? The average salary in US is 50k. No doctor´s salary should exceed 200k. Even that sounds extreme exploitation of people´s most basic needs. Isn´t it enough of a incentive to study that you would earn signifantly over the average salary, while doing something worthy (nearly guaranteed income if good doctor) for the rest of one´s life?

It is hard debating on the matter as the system is very different here. The studying time is same without any initial investment (universities are free of charge for citizens). People still study it a lot, despite doctors earning significantly less (compared to local average salary) than the doctors in US (compared to US average salary). It is incentive enough to earn significantly (aroun 1,5 - 4 times) more than the average person with guaranteed job (which doctors usually have) for the rest of one´s life.

Human life is too valuable to be equalled with his/her financial value... That is why I believe in universal healthcare.
edit on 5-11-2013 by Cabin because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 10:35 AM
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reply to post by Cabin
 


So basically, you're in favour of government dictating salary based upon profession.

You do know that this has been attempted before in other countries.



posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 12:16 PM
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Cabin

No doctor´s salary should exceed 200k. Even that sounds extreme exploitation of people´s most basic needs.


Boy is that backwards. The one person who can possibly fix you so you don’t die and so you get healthy shouldn’t earn more than $200,000.00 a year????? So let’s see, it’s okay to earn more than that, MUCH more than that if for instance: you hit a small white ball into a small hole or a large orange ball into a large hoop; you walk down a catwalk wearing not much more than your underwear; you sit behind a desk and speculate what the NYSE is going to do and advise your customers; you drive a car very fast around a racetrack; you’re the CEO of a company that provides talkies to the population; you sit behind a large desk and figure out how to screw the American citizens while claiming ignorance of it all.

If anything, the doctors should be at the top of that elite heap and next should be teachers.



edit on 5-11-2013 by StoutBroux because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 01:51 PM
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TKDRL
reply to post by LoneGunMan
 


Yeah, but you have to look at the big picture, from their perspective as well. If everything goes perfect, if I remember correct, doctors go through 4 years of regular college, then another 4 years of med school minimum. So they are 26 minimum when their career kicks off, already behind the bell curve on a lot of other professionals. And they are coming into their careers with triple, quadruple the debt right?

If it's going to take them 30 years just to pay off that chunk of debt, who would bother? 58 years old before they can even start going for a house and retirement fund etc. There has got to be some kind of balancing somewheres. Don't ask me what it is, I don't have that answer. Somewhere between what canada has, and what the united states has. Some kind of happy medium.


edit on Sun, 03 Nov 2013 10:40:20 -0600 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)




This brings up another issue...we have to get the cost of education in America under control.

What we have all been a victim too is everyone took to heart the saying "what the market can bear". We are being over-charged for too many things in the name of everyone trying to make it filthy rich.

The system (and many of you) are bucking because there are now attempts to do away with this greed. It will hurt and there will be pain but it should pay off in the end.



posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 01:56 PM
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TKDRL
reply to post by kaylaluv
 

You are right, but swinging the pendulum all the way to the other side is not good either. No one is going to want to run a business that just breaks even, or worse, runs in the red. If that starts happening all the hospitals and doctors close shop, and everyone dies.

I know what it's like to be uninsured, been that way all my life. I never been able to afford things like dental care. My teeth have been in shambles for years now, I spend money as I get it when I can to get stuff fixed. I got two teeth ready to break any moment, only thing I can do about it is eat asprin like candy.

edit on Sun, 03 Nov 2013 12:55:29 -0600 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)




And yet you fight against your best interests? Propaganda is a POWERFUL thing!



posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 01:57 PM
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badgerprints

kaylaluv
No biggie ..... they better get used to it now, because when we become single-payer, all citizens will be medicare/medicaid -- so the doctors will have to accept them anyway, or they will have zero patients. That won't be good for business.




Doctors don't have to stay in business.
They have degrees. They are pretty smart.
They can find other jobs that pay well.

We can't force them to work.
Half of the emergency rooms on border states have already shut down in the last 15 years because of the mandatory treatment laws.
Costs too much to run em for free.
Doctors will go work elsewhere.

Your next move will be mandatory assignment of doctors (by ones needs as decided by government.)

Good luck with that pancreatic cancer or COPD when your assigned doctor is a 24 year old intern who got his degree in Ixtapa.
edit on 3-11-2013 by badgerprints because: (no reason given)




As the doctors only in it for the money leave, they will be replaced by doctors who are in it for the RIGHT reasons.

There will be a period of pain which will pay off in the end...



posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 02:03 PM
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beezzer

AlienScience
reply to post by beezzer
 


I agree with him.

Doctors shouldn't be able to discriminate based on income level and age...and that is exactly what they are doing when they refuse Medicaid and Medicare.

And besides, once we move to single payer...and we will...doctors will have to accept everyone as a patient.


It is rather sickening that people are actually advocating that doctors should be able to pick and choose the patients they want to treat. Talk about elitism.


Say a plumber doesn't want to work for a client that is slow on paying, or doesn't pay well.

Should the government order the plumber to work for that client?




Healthcare is completely different from most other aspects of life. It's literally life or death. Perhaps all healthcare SHOULD be removed from the private sector?

Like it or not we live in a society with rules. We ALL made this choice by....simply living here...a unsigned agreement. We can choose to devolve back to where it was every man for himself or we can continue moving forward to where we all work together to help each other.

Nevermind...we're far too primitive I suppose to even consider this. I'm sure you're ready to yell about communism/socialism and the such...



posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 02:04 PM
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FlyersFan

Cabin
Every person is not able to pay for their healthcare, should they just die off?

Health care isn't a 'right' ... it's a commodity.
The doctor isn't a slave to the state ... he's a citizen who has a right to earn a trade.




Basically, you're one of those "if he dies...he dies" people? What type of society is that again?



posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 02:06 PM
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DZAG Wright

badgerprints

kaylaluv
No biggie ..... they better get used to it now, because when we become single-payer, all citizens will be medicare/medicaid -- so the doctors will have to accept them anyway, or they will have zero patients. That won't be good for business.




Doctors don't have to stay in business.
They have degrees. They are pretty smart.
They can find other jobs that pay well.

We can't force them to work.
Half of the emergency rooms on border states have already shut down in the last 15 years because of the mandatory treatment laws.
Costs too much to run em for free.
Doctors will go work elsewhere.

Your next move will be mandatory assignment of doctors (by ones needs as decided by government.)

Good luck with that pancreatic cancer or COPD when your assigned doctor is a 24 year old intern who got his degree in Ixtapa.
edit on 3-11-2013 by badgerprints because: (no reason given)




As the doctors only in it for the money leave, they will be replaced by doctors who are in it for the RIGHT reasons.

There will be a period of pain which will pay off in the end...


ANd then the best and brightest go into other fields? What gives you or society the right to claim ownership on another person just because of the profession they have? What gives anyone the right to simply declare a person's individuality null and void just because you desire his services cheaper? Why can't I declare your profession "essential" and then take away your freedom?



posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 02:07 PM
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beezzer
Here's a great compromise for those who love government oversight.

Have government care. Have government doctors. Have government nurses, government support staff.

AND. . . . .

Have private practice. Have doctors and nurses and support staff that work for money. For pre-approved insurance companies.

Have a CHOICE.

Have the oppourtunity to choose. Have the ones providing care, the oppourtunity to decide what they want to do, where they want to do it, and for whom they choose to do it for.

That way, those that want government care can enjoy the DMV I mean, government care, and those that want private practice, enjoy the oppourtunity to engage in private practice.




I'm a Vet so I've lived through government care and guess what? I'd take it over going broke any day!

If we had government care and private care I can GUARANTEE you the rich would be the number one customers of the government!

I spoke to a couple of doctors in the Army and asked them why they chose to practice for the military and they answered because it was less stress. It paid less but there was less paperwork, less insurance and just plain more covenient.



posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 02:10 PM
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NavyDoc

DZAG Wright

badgerprints

kaylaluv
No biggie ..... they better get used to it now, because when we become single-payer, all citizens will be medicare/medicaid -- so the doctors will have to accept them anyway, or they will have zero patients. That won't be good for business.




Doctors don't have to stay in business.
They have degrees. They are pretty smart.
They can find other jobs that pay well.

We can't force them to work.
Half of the emergency rooms on border states have already shut down in the last 15 years because of the mandatory treatment laws.
Costs too much to run em for free.
Doctors will go work elsewhere.

Your next move will be mandatory assignment of doctors (by ones needs as decided by government.)

Good luck with that pancreatic cancer or COPD when your assigned doctor is a 24 year old intern who got his degree in Ixtapa.
edit on 3-11-2013 by badgerprints because: (no reason given)




As the doctors only in it for the money leave, they will be replaced by doctors who are in it for the RIGHT reasons.

There will be a period of pain which will pay off in the end...


ANd then the best and brightest go into other fields? What gives you or society the right to claim ownership on another person just because of the profession they have? What gives anyone the right to simply declare a person's individuality null and void just because you desire his services cheaper? Why can't I declare your profession "essential" and then take away your freedom?




Eventually there won't be "other" fields to go into for the greedy, but that's another topic.

The Right is given by the person who volunteers to participate in our society. What many people such as you neglect to recognize.

We will eventually get to the point where we all recognize our duty is to work yes for ourselves, but also for society and its betterment.



posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 02:12 PM
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reply to post by DZAG Wright
 


So you DO think that government should determine the pay/salary of medical professionals, and everyone else associated within the medical field?



posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 02:19 PM
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DZAG Wright

NavyDoc

DZAG Wright

badgerprints

kaylaluv
No biggie ..... they better get used to it now, because when we become single-payer, all citizens will be medicare/medicaid -- so the doctors will have to accept them anyway, or they will have zero patients. That won't be good for business.




Doctors don't have to stay in business.
They have degrees. They are pretty smart.
They can find other jobs that pay well.

We can't force them to work.
Half of the emergency rooms on border states have already shut down in the last 15 years because of the mandatory treatment laws.
Costs too much to run em for free.
Doctors will go work elsewhere.

Your next move will be mandatory assignment of doctors (by ones needs as decided by government.)

Good luck with that pancreatic cancer or COPD when your assigned doctor is a 24 year old intern who got his degree in Ixtapa.
edit on 3-11-2013 by badgerprints because: (no reason given)




As the doctors only in it for the money leave, they will be replaced by doctors who are in it for the RIGHT reasons.

There will be a period of pain which will pay off in the end...


ANd then the best and brightest go into other fields? What gives you or society the right to claim ownership on another person just because of the profession they have? What gives anyone the right to simply declare a person's individuality null and void just because you desire his services cheaper? Why can't I declare your profession "essential" and then take away your freedom?




Eventually there won't be "other" fields to go into for the greedy, but that's another topic.

The Right is given by the person who volunteers to participate in our society. What many people such as you neglect to recognize.

We will eventually get to the point where we all recognize our duty is to work yes for ourselves, but also for society and its betterment.


You are pretty #ing generous with someone else's time, education, skills, and life. And you call OTHER people greedy? Hypocrite.

There is no "RIght" to declare servitude on another just because you want his services. That is not "volunteering to participate in society"--that is servitude and something that fascists like yourself don't understand. Yeah, it is very easy to declare someone ELSE should work for the betterment of society...so, do you work for free for "the betterment of society?"

And yeah, I've been in the VA system too, and I think you are nuts if not a bit dishonest
edit on 5-11-2013 by NavyDoc because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 02:19 PM
link   

NavyDoc

DZAG Wright

NavyDoc

DZAG Wright

badgerprints

kaylaluv
No biggie ..... they better get used to it now, because when we become single-payer, all citizens will be medicare/medicaid -- so the doctors will have to accept them anyway, or they will have zero patients. That won't be good for business.




Doctors don't have to stay in business.
They have degrees. They are pretty smart.
They can find other jobs that pay well.

We can't force them to work.
Half of the emergency rooms on border states have already shut down in the last 15 years because of the mandatory treatment laws.
Costs too much to run em for free.
Doctors will go work elsewhere.

Your next move will be mandatory assignment of doctors (by ones needs as decided by government.)

Good luck with that pancreatic cancer or COPD when your assigned doctor is a 24 year old intern who got his degree in Ixtapa.
edit on 3-11-2013 by badgerprints because: (no reason given)




As the doctors only in it for the money leave, they will be replaced by doctors who are in it for the RIGHT reasons.

There will be a period of pain which will pay off in the end...


ANd then the best and brightest go into other fields? What gives you or society the right to claim ownership on another person just because of the profession they have? What gives anyone the right to simply declare a person's individuality null and void just because you desire his services cheaper? Why can't I declare your profession "essential" and then take away your freedom?




Eventually there won't be "other" fields to go into for the greedy, but that's another topic.

The Right is given by the person who volunteers to participate in our society. What many people such as you neglect to recognize.

We will eventually get to the point where we all recognize our duty is to work yes for ourselves, but also for society and its betterment.


You are pretty #ing generous with someone else's time, education, skills, and life. And you call OTHER people greedy? Hypocrite.

There is no "RIght" to declare servitude on another just because you want his services. That is not "volunteering to participate in society"--that is servitude and something that fascists like yourself don't understand. Yeah, it is very easy to declare someone else should work for the betterment of society...so, do you work for free for "the betterment of society?"

And yeah, I've been in the VA system too, and I think you are nuts if a little bit dishonest.



posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 02:22 PM
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StoutBroux

Cabin

No doctor´s salary should exceed 200k. Even that sounds extreme exploitation of people´s most basic needs.


Boy is that backwards. The one person who can possibly fix you so you don’t die and so you get healthy shouldn’t earn more than $200,000.00 a year????? So let’s see, it’s okay to earn more than that, MUCH more than that if for instance: you hit a small white ball into a small hole or a large orange ball into a large hoop; you walk down a catwalk wearing not much more than your underwear; you sit behind a desk and speculate what the NYSE is going to do and advise your customers; you drive a car very fast around a racetrack; you’re the CEO of a company that provides talkies to the population; you sit behind a large desk and figure out how to screw the American citizens while claiming ignorance of it all.

If anything, the doctors should be at the top of that elite heap and next should be teachers.



edit on 5-11-2013 by StoutBroux because: (no reason given)




Are you all for the people who safeguard this country (soldiers and police, etc) receiving a massive pay boost? I mean their job is possibly even more important than a doctors right?




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