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Virginia Democrat Calls For Forcing Doctors To Accept Medicare And Medicaid Patients

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posted on Nov, 3 2013 @ 01:14 PM
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AlienScience

IF you are a doctor and you are providing services, then you should be required to provide that service to ALL paying customers....including Medicaid and Medicare.

This is why the medical industry should, and eventually will, be strictly regulated.


No.

No doctor should be forced to treat anybody they don't want to treat.

What gives anyone the right to force doctors to take patients? Nothing.

Aside from that,
I really don't think I'd want to have a doctor that didn't want me as a patient.
Forcing this kind of setup basically guarantees that these patients will get substandard care.
Might even start costing a lot of lives.
Doctors aren't machines.
You try to make slaves out of them and they will retaliate.




posted on Nov, 3 2013 @ 01:19 PM
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AlienScience
The best doctors really don't care about the money...they have a passion for what they do and truly want to help people.


You can't possibly know that. That's you projecting your own sense of morality onto doctors.

- People who want to make money aren't any better or any worse than those who 'don't care' about money. You have no way to judge their souls. You do not know.

- Do you have any evidence to support that the more money a doctor makes ... the worse they do their job? Frankly, I'd think it was the exact opposite. The good doctors will be in high demand and could charge more and/or earn more due to higher volume work or more difficult level of work (like brain surgeons). Whereas the not so good doctors will lose patients and therefore lose income.

- Doctors went through many years of college and studied very hard, and they had to do residency, and they are entitled to earn a good living from all the hard work it took them to become doctors.



posted on Nov, 3 2013 @ 01:54 PM
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Personally, I think it would be far more productive to figure out why we are in such a mess that we need a greedy middleman to subsidize healthcare in the first place, and fix the root issues causing it. All this obama/romneycare crap does is fatten the greedy middlemen's pockets even more, making those roots all the more stronger. But of course before that could happen, we need to vote all these scumbags with their fat greasy fingers in all the cookiejars the hell out of office.



posted on Nov, 3 2013 @ 02:50 PM
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AlienScience
reply to post by beezzer
 


I agree with him.

Doctors shouldn't be able to discriminate based on income level and age...and that is exactly what they are doing when they refuse Medicaid and Medicare.

And besides, once we move to single payer...and we will...doctors will have to accept everyone as a patient.


It is rather sickening that people are actually advocating that doctors should be able to pick and choose the patients they want to treat. Talk about elitism.


Say a plumber doesn't want to work for a client that is slow on paying, or doesn't pay well.

Should the government order the plumber to work for that client?



posted on Nov, 3 2013 @ 03:18 PM
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reply to post by beezzer
 


You do not die if the plumbing system in your house does not work.

You might/will die if your disease does not get treated on time.

These are uncomparable. One is about comfort, other about survival. I do not see anybody having the right to say: "Pay or die". Technically the doctor could ask whatever for his/her services if there is an emergency situation and the person would still do anything in his/her power to pay for it, if survival is at stake.

Every person is not able to pay for their healthcare, should they just die off?



posted on Nov, 3 2013 @ 03:27 PM
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Cabin
reply to post by beezzer
 


You do not die if the plumbing system in your house does not work.

You might/will die if your disease does not get treated on time.


So the government should get it's own doctors, government employees with MD's to treat the sick person.


These are uncomparable. One is about comfort, other about survival. I do not see anybody having the right to say: "Pay or die". Technically the doctor could ask whatever for his/her services if there is an emergency situation and the person would still do anything in his/her power to pay for it, if survival is at stake.

Every person is not able to pay for their healthcare, should they just die off?


If one doesn't have a house, then exposure to the elements will kill them.

So a contractor should build me a house and I don't have to pay for it?
edit on 3-11-2013 by beezzer because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 3 2013 @ 03:30 PM
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Cabin
Every person is not able to pay for their healthcare, should they just die off?

Health care isn't a 'right' ... it's a commodity.
The doctor isn't a slave to the state ... he's a citizen who has a right to earn a trade.



posted on Nov, 3 2013 @ 03:50 PM
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Here's a great compromise for those who love government oversight.

Have government care. Have government doctors. Have government nurses, government support staff.

AND. . . . .

Have private practice. Have doctors and nurses and support staff that work for money. For pre-approved insurance companies.

Have a CHOICE.

Have the oppourtunity to choose. Have the ones providing care, the oppourtunity to decide what they want to do, where they want to do it, and for whom they choose to do it for.

That way, those that want government care can enjoy the DMV I mean, government care, and those that want private practice, enjoy the oppourtunity to engage in private practice.



posted on Nov, 3 2013 @ 04:07 PM
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TKDRL
reply to post by AlienScience
 


No one has to accept all paying customers like you are suggesting. I am surely not going to accept a customer that is "paying" me to work for a loss of money or barely any profit. No one would.
edit on Sun, 03 Nov 2013 11:21:30 -0600 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)


It's discrimination in this case.

The elderly and the poor really have no choice but to be on Medicaid and Medicare.

Doctors can't decide that they aren't going to service the elderly and the poor....period.



posted on Nov, 3 2013 @ 04:20 PM
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AlienScience

TKDRL
reply to post by AlienScience
 


No one has to accept all paying customers like you are suggesting. I am surely not going to accept a customer that is "paying" me to work for a loss of money or barely any profit. No one would.
edit on Sun, 03 Nov 2013 11:21:30 -0600 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)


It's discrimination in this case.

The elderly and the poor really have no choice but to be on Medicaid and Medicare.

Doctors can't decide that they aren't going to service the elderly and the poor....period.



So I can go to a barber, demand a haircut, and when they want money, claim discrimination?

lolz



posted on Nov, 3 2013 @ 04:28 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 



You can't possibly know that. That's you projecting your own sense of morality onto doctors.


LOL...really?

I in fact do know this...because I work with doctors at some of the top hospitals in the world. The doctors that are at the top of their field at these hospitals don't care at all about money.

I also work with doctors at smaller community hospitals...the absolute worst doctors you can find are in the hospitals further away from major population centers. And the doctors in these hospitals huge the biggest egos and THINK they are very important people...even though they couldn't make it at the top rated hospitals in the major cities.

I know this for a fact...it is a general rule, not an absolute rule of course...but it is accurate.


People who want to make money aren't any better or any worse than those who 'don't care' about money. You have no way to judge their souls. You do not know.


People who want to make money will try to force themselves into a profession even if they aren't skilled at it or have a passion for it.

Did you know that it is almost impossible to flunk out of medical school? All you have to do is hire a lawyer and the school will always let you back in. Because of this, most medical schools won't even attempt to flunk anyone out of the program unless the are grossly incompetent...and even then those people still get back in and get their degrees.

If you are passionate about your career...you don't care about the money. If you are just out for the money...then you really don't care about the job...just the paycheck.


Do you have any evidence to support that the more money a doctor makes ... the worse they do their job? Frankly, I'd think it was the exact opposite. The good doctors will be in high demand and could charge more and/or earn more due to higher volume work or more difficult level of work (like brain surgeons). Whereas the not so good doctors will lose patients and therefore lose income.


You aren't comprehending what I am saying...I said nothing about them making more or less money....I said that they don't CARE about the money. That is why the will effectively volunteer their time to provide their services to clinics that serve populations that are impoverished. They don't need to do this and they would make a ton more money using that time in other ways...but they don't because they care about the patients and the know how broken the healthcare system is.

However, that isn't to say that these doctors aren't well paid or make less than other doctors. Most of them make way more than your average doctor because they are so skilled. My point is that they don't care about that and still go out of their way to make sure they provide some of their services to those who can't afford great quality healthcare.


Doctors went through many years of college and studied very hard, and they had to do residency, and they are entitled to earn a good living from all the hard work it took them to become doctors.


Like any profession, a doctor is either good at what he does or he isn't...it doesn't matter how long they went to school. And time put into how long you go to school for your profession doesn't ENTITLE you to a damn thing. If you are a crappy doctor...tough...you made a bad decision.

This mentality of doctor worship and that they are entitled a good living is what is wrong with our healthcare system. Doctors that aren't good enough to make it in the good hospitals and have to find work in crappy rural hospitals shouldn't be making a ton of money....they suck at their job...the only thing they deserve is compensation that reflects their skills...which by my estimation should be about 50k a year for most of these idiot doctors at small hospitals.

You need to stop worshiping doctors like they are gods...they are people...and like people...the large majority of them are complete idiots that just went to school for a long time. And it's people like you who think they are ENTITLED to make a lot of money who continues to support a broken healthcare system.



posted on Nov, 3 2013 @ 04:31 PM
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reply to post by beezzer
 



Say a plumber doesn't want to work for a client that is slow on paying, or doesn't pay well.

Should the government order the plumber to work for that client?


I know what Medicaid and Medicare pay...and they pay more consistently and promptly than most private policies. The thing doctors don't like the most about accepting these is that they are forced to actually do their job correctly or they don't get paid...that is all.

For healthcare...I am 100% fine with the government forcing all doctors to accept any patient that needs services. And that is where we are heading with single payer...they won't have a choice...and that is a good thing.



posted on Nov, 3 2013 @ 04:37 PM
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so if this passes does it effect drs moving? or retiring? does it prevent them from closing their practices? what happens if something like 50-60% of the drs in Virginia decide screw it were moving to states that did not expand medicare?this is the one thing the government has zero control over as the law stands,if the drs refuse to take medicare or the extreme example of just not comply with the ACA/obama care.what can the government do? mandate that they work their jobs against their wishes?what happens if this turns into a massive protest by drs and they all retire,drs arent exactly easy/quick to train and are pretty hard to find "scab" workers to break picket lines i mean being a dr is not like digging ditches cant just be taught in a week to joe bob or cooter.....i know its an extreme example possibly the most extreme but this is ats so we tend to think waaaaaaaay out side of the conventional box so to speak. out side of war time and defense contractors/military personell can you be told you have to your job?



posted on Nov, 3 2013 @ 04:45 PM
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reply to post by beezzer
 



So I can go to a barber, demand a haircut, and when they want money, claim discrimination?


You don't make a whole lot of sense...you seem to be rambling.

Medicaid and Medicare pay just fine.



posted on Nov, 3 2013 @ 06:43 PM
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kaylaluv
No biggie ..... they better get used to it now, because when we become single-payer, all citizens will be medicare/medicaid -- so the doctors will have to accept them anyway, or they will have zero patients. That won't be good for business.


Exactly! As soon as the ACA is perfected into a "universal" not-for-profit, single payer system that covers everyone, doctors will have just the opposite opinion and they'll be begging for those customers instead of rejecting them which IMO, is despicable to begin with.

On the other hand, I'm not sure that I would utilize a physician who didn't want to see me to begin with. I doubt he/she is going to provide me with their best care when they despise the fact that they even have to see me.

IMO, if we have doctors who don't want to see patients, maybe we should just reclassify them as veterinarians with the freedom to pick and choose their patients at will, just like they ask for.



posted on Nov, 3 2013 @ 08:18 PM
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TKDRL
reply to post by boncho
 


I think you got that a bit backwards though. The politicians are in their pockets, making it a government enforced monopoly of sorts. The AMA is a joke, they artificially create doctor shortages. The pharm industry made it impossible to get any drug tested without their backing, no one has the amount of cash needed but them. It goes on and on. It makes it look like it's the government trying to keep people safe yadda yadda, when it is really just a defacto monopoly.


How is what I said backwards. I said AMA is not working because the US is unwilling to adopt true, universal health care. Everyone arguing with me is arguing my points.

Unless you claim, "Keep them guvs outta my healthcare" and want the standard US system that has been raping for over 50 years, you are suggesting the same thing as me.

The health industry is a service involving health of an individual, making it a very poor industry to be profit driven. More dead people = more money.



posted on Nov, 4 2013 @ 08:22 AM
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reply to post by boncho
 


Universal healthcare has it's own problems as well though. Like really bad wait times for everything. Had two "aunts" get brain cancer in the recent past, one in the US and one in NB. The one in the US was in surgery less than a day after it was found. She is doing OK for now. The one in canada waited over a month between finding and operating. She is daed. Do I know she would have lived if it was operated on less than a day later? No, of course not, sure wouldn't have hurt though. A month wait for something serious like brain cancer is not a good thing. The aunt in the US had to go bankrupt because of the hospital bill though, the downside to the US system.

The reason aunt is in perenthesis, not really aunts, I have always referred to them as such though. Really their husbands are my father's cousins, but I always called them uncles, they always been close like bros to my father. Just to clarify.



posted on Nov, 4 2013 @ 12:39 PM
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TKDRL
reply to post by boncho
 


Universal healthcare has it's own problems as well though. Like really bad wait times for everything. Had two "aunts" get brain cancer in the recent past, one in the US and one in NB. The one in the US was in surgery less than a day after it was found. She is doing OK for now. The one in canada waited over a month between finding and operating. She is daed. Do I know she would have lived if it was operated on less than a day later? No, of course not, sure wouldn't have hurt though. A month wait for something serious like brain cancer is not a good thing. The aunt in the US had to go bankrupt because of the hospital bill though, the downside to the US system.

The reason aunt is in perenthesis, not really aunts, I have always referred to them as such though. Really their husbands are my father's cousins, but I always called them uncles, they always been close like bros to my father. Just to clarify.


Canada is a bad exampled, they have adopted many US styles of politics, and US style of business. The health care system was beaten down and destroyed during the 90s. (In a few provinces, ontario was by Mike Harris I think… )

There are a few places in europe that are good examples of universal health care still. Nothing will work if you have corruption. Very simply. There needs to be a civilian body, or civilian oversight, perhaps a charter or constitution that keeps things from being perverted.

In medicine, I believe it is more than doctors who should take the hippocratic oath, the administrators as well.

Here is a good post by a Canadian American who compares the two: www.pnhp.org...

He points out something quite valid, the province is applicable, as some handle their health care better than others. Also cities play a role too, I remember a hospital my friend had surgery in, was brand new, no wait time, great staff, and another a family member was in, terrible on all accounts… all down to a bunch of factors.
edit on 4-11-2013 by boncho because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 4 2013 @ 12:46 PM
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reply to post by boncho
 


Oh I see. I only have experience of US and Canada healthcare. And only recently Canada. The hospital up here botched what is pretty routine and straighforward surgery on my mom. Had her appendix removed with a lazer surgery, except they didn't get it all and she almost died from infection. They ended up having to remove a huge chunk of intestines. All in all I can't say I am too impressed with Canada healthcarewise lol.



posted on Nov, 4 2013 @ 12:52 PM
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TKDRL
reply to post by boncho
 


Oh I see. I only have experience of US and Canada healthcare. And only recently Canada. The hospital up here botched what is pretty routine and straighforward surgery on my mom. Had her appendix removed with a lazer surgery, except they didn't get it all and she almost died from infection. They ended up having to remove a huge chunk of intestines. All in all I can't say I am too impressed with Canada healthcarewise lol.


It's odd, that happened with Brock Lesnar (Wrestler turned UFC fighter… ) had a stomach problem, thought he was gonna die in Canada, and went back to US to praise the healthcare. Generally, I have heard great things about Canada's healthcare, if we focus on anecdotal accounts from both though, we are not going to get anywhere. I am sure you can find horror stories in the US system as well.

You have to look at overall statistics. Generally, Canada is not a leading place for healthcare anymore. But, some other places with universal health care are.

The author of that article put it best when he said his doctor in canada spends a 40 hour workweek seeing patients, submitting his claims easily, and the American doctor spends 35 hr seeing patients and another 35 wrangling money out of insurance companies trying to get them to pay for the patients.

Insurance companies should not have final say over someone's health. Denying claims, denying insurance, all that should be kept out of healthcare industry.

Anyone that pays taxes should get healthcare in my opinion. If not, then give me back the taxes for the x number of police forces, x number of military forces, x number of alphabet forces, cause id rather spend it on my spleen in case it ruptures.





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