Bees _restored to health_ in Italy after this spring’s neonicotinoid-free maize sowing

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posted on Oct, 28 2013 @ 09:03 AM
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reply to post by ZeussusZ
 


That would still make the problem neonicotinoids not GM. I wouldn't dismiss GM crops potential negative impact on bees but the emerging evidence being discussed doesn't cover looking at GM crops not treated with neonicotinoids, so that conclusion can't be drawn.
edit on 28-10-2013 by Kali74 because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 28 2013 @ 09:26 AM
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Phage
reply to post by Raxoxane
 

You might want to direct your ire to Bayer and Syngenta. They're the ones who sell most of the neonicotinoids.

I would really appreciate anything you may have in the way of links to follow in support of that?

Unlike most times I may say that, I know better than to ever assume your posts are without research and confidence in being correct ..so I'm asking in genuine curiosity and desire to learn more on what you're saying there. I could certainly find it myself, too ....if I could first find that elusive thing some people refer to as "Free time". lol.... Got any of that to spare, while we're at it?



posted on Oct, 28 2013 @ 12:26 PM
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reply to post by ZeussusZ
 




Are non-GM seeds treated with neonicotinoids?

Yes.
There are two GM crops (MON 810 and the Amflora potato) approved for cultivation in the EU. There are many other crops which are treated.

Neonicotinoid seed treatment technology is embraced by many farmers across Europe for all the crops reviewed. For example, sugar beet farmers strongly depend on this technology, which has transformed their industry since it was introduced in the 1990s. The technology has the potential to also fully transform Oilseed Rape production and many key growing countries already rely on it.

Neonicotinoid seed treatment is also becoming invaluable for corn and forage maize and currently addresses severe pest problems for approximately 40% of key European growing areas. Neonicotinoid seed treatment is used on approximately 60% of the Sunflower growing areas in the EU and increasingly on Wheat and Barley to help growers cope with damaging pest issues, primarily in Western Europe.

www.neonicreport.com...



posted on Oct, 28 2013 @ 12:49 PM
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post by ZeussusZ

"Are non-GM seeds treated with neonicotinoids?"



Phage
reply to post by ZeussusZ
 




Are non-GM seeds treated with neonicotinoids?



Yes.
There are two GM crops (MON 810 and the Amflora potato) approved for cultivation in the EU. There are many other crops which are treated.


Why did you answer the question about non GM crops and neonics
with an answer that is about GMO crops???
edit on 28-10-2013 by burntheships because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 28 2013 @ 01:00 PM
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Phage
reply to post by burntheships
 


What answer?
Neonicotinoids are not exclusive to GM crops.





Monsanto introduced three different strains of patented, GE corn between 1997 and 2003.

Clothianidin entered the U.S. market under conditional registration in 2003, and in 2004
corn seed companies began marketing seeds treated with a 5X level of neonicotinoids
(1.25 mg/seed vs. .25).

... and in the space of a decade, U.S. corn acreage undergoes a ten-fold increase in average
insecticide use. By 2007, the average acre of corn has more than three systemic insecticides —

.... It is by now common knowledge that conventional corn farmers have a very hard time finding seed that is not genetically engineered and treated with neonicotinoids.

www.panna.org...



posted on Oct, 28 2013 @ 01:12 PM
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reply to post by burntheships
 


Yes but... neonicotinoids are also used on non-GM crops so a correlation can't be made as to whether GM crops themselves are harmful to bees. I would think they are considering the ever increasing amount of pesticides used on them, but... this bee recovery is linked only to not using neonicotinoids.



posted on Oct, 28 2013 @ 04:47 PM
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reply to post by Kali74
 


Without any proof of what you say as your opinion,
it is really not possible to come to any conclusion
except that the link between GMO seeds, crops and
neonicotinoid is strong enough that the nations
that are not bought and paid for my Monsanto, Bayer
and other large chemical companies have
restricted its use.

Your opinion vs legislation based on research by professionals.



posted on Oct, 28 2013 @ 05:15 PM
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reply to post by HunkaHunka
 


Nice to hear some good news on the bees. It would seem that despite what the companies say the pesticide does harm bees and this is good evidence for it



posted on Oct, 28 2013 @ 05:31 PM
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reply to post by burntheships
 


MON810 is still grown in Italy. It's looking it will be banned from growing but still is a crop there now. As I said, I think there probably is an adverse effect on bees from GMO crops, but this discussion is about neonicotinoids and doesn't prove such or even allude to such.
edit on 28-10-2013 by Kali74 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 28 2013 @ 05:35 PM
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Bees are awesome. They pollinate huge areas for free and give us honey for free. All we need to do to keep our end of the bargain is stop messing with the delicate way nature does things.



posted on Oct, 28 2013 @ 05:59 PM
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reply to post by Kali74
 


LOL, that will be the day when it is considered that one is
distinct from the other, here is is in a nutshell.

What GMO crops do not use Neonics?
There lies the truth of the matter, spin it however you wish.



posted on Oct, 28 2013 @ 06:36 PM
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reply to post by burntheships
 


I'm not spinning it ffs.
Stop being so ridiculous.



posted on Oct, 28 2013 @ 06:46 PM
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Kali74
reply to post by burntheships
 


I'm not spinning it ffs.


Then where is your proof?

Answer the question:



What GMO crops do not use Neonics?


Kali74
reply to post by burntheships
 

neonicotinoids are also used on non-GM crops so a correlation can't be made


Name them ( those in Italy, that is )

edit on 28-10-2013 by burntheships because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 28 2013 @ 08:22 PM
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reply to post by burntheships
 



It's complicated, but MON810, the only approved BT corn in the EU has never been grown in Italy, not even in field trials. Offically it has been banned in Italy since July, but the decision is not backed by EU regulations and is under review by the courts in Brussels.

The ban of the three neonicotinoids is not related to GM maize which is only grown in five other european countries and it's less than one percent of all corn grown in the EU anyway.


Remember this thread?

I sincerely hope this is the real deal, it could have a ripple effect on agriculture businesses world wide regarding the use of neurotoxic insecticides. But the research has to be 'bullet proof'.



posted on Oct, 28 2013 @ 08:28 PM
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A common example of a non-GMO crop that uses neonicotinoid pesticides:

USA grown wheat

There is no GMO wheat that the USDA has approved for commercial growth.

U.S. food processors are wary of consumer reaction to products containing genetically modified (GM) wheat, so no GM wheat is commercially grown in the United States.
Link

Here in Washington state, neonicotinoid pesticides are used to treat wheat crops to increase the yield. Controlling Wireworms with Neonicotinoid Insecticides in Wheat



posted on Oct, 28 2013 @ 08:35 PM
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talklikeapirat
reply to post by burntheships
 



It's complicated, but MON810, the only approved BT corn in the EU has never been grown in Italy, not even in field trials. Offically it has been banned in Italy since July, but the decision is not backed by EU regulations and is under review by the courts in Brussels.



Yes, great info there, that is what the real deal is....some here
seem to be very confused about the differences between the different types
of pesticides, and the crops they are used with.

Great thread.



posted on Oct, 28 2013 @ 09:03 PM
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NiteNGale2
A common example of a non-GMO crop that uses neonicotinoid pesticides:

USA grown wheat



Some US grown wheat, perhaps...they way to avoid that is look for the
GMO free promise label, or Organic.



Now as it concerns the OP, Mon 810 has been banned for some time in France.
sustainablepulse.com...

And, the war has been on since at least 2010 in Italy, yes even against Mon 810 which
was planted without a permit....


BARI, Italy—An acre of farmland in northeastern Italy is at the center of a national debate.

Giorgio Fidenato, head of the Italian Federated Farmers, feels strongly about the right to grow genetically modified organisms (GMOs), prompting him to plant Monsanto’s GM corn strain Mon810 amid much protest.

Fidenato took advantage of the European Union’s decision in September 2012 to deny Italy the right to stop cultivation of Mon810. It was the only GMO permitted in the country, but Italy required cultivators to have a government-issued permit for its growth.

In 2010, Fidenato had engaged in an act of civil disobedience and planted Mon810 without a permit. His applications had been repeatedly rejected. Greenpeace activists pulled up the plants before they could contaminate surrounding fields. Fidenato was fined 25,000 euro ($32,500) for the illegal cultivation. Greenpeace activists were fined 86,250 euro ($112,350) for trespassing on agricultural land.

He planted his field in the Friuli Venezia Giulia region with even more gusto this June, having the backing of the EU decision. On July 12, however, Italy took a hardline stance against Mon810

www.theepochtimes.com...

It is fairly easy to see why the bee population is faring well in Italy.




posted on Oct, 28 2013 @ 10:12 PM
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reply to post by burntheships
 


Why did you answer the question about non GM crops and neonics
with an answer that is about GMO crops???


Simple, if you paid any attention.

I prefaced the link I posted by explaining that there are only two GM crops grown in the EU. The external quote specifies other crops (grown in the EU) which are seed treated with neonicotinoids. Those crops are not GM because the EU does not allow GM varieties of those crops to be planted.

You see, if you focus on what I actually posted, you see that neonicotinoid treated seeds are not exclusive to GM crops.



posted on Oct, 28 2013 @ 10:19 PM
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burntheships
reply to post by burntheships
 

Name them ( those in Italy, that is )



Name a crop grown in Italy.
All of the crops in Italy are grown without neonicotinoid seed treatment (due to the ban).
A few specifics
Sugar beets.
Rapeseed.
Sunflowers.
Wheat.
Barley.

(at least)

Italy was growing GM maize until this year. Apparently bees stopped dying in 2009. Apparently the bees weren't dying because of the GM maize.
edit on 10/28/2013 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 28 2013 @ 10:22 PM
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Phage
All of the crops in Italy are grown without neonicotinoid seed treatment (due to the ban).


Yet, you dont think that correlates to the bee populations better health?


Wait, Oh I see you have now edited your post....


Phage


Name a crop grown in Italy.
All of the crops in Italy are grown without neonicotinoid seed treatment (due to the ban).
editby]edit on 10/28/2013 by Phage because: (no reason given)


You really dont have a clue, do you?
edit on 28-10-2013 by burntheships because: (no reason given)





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