Hmm...Could we be at war with Aliens and not know?

"i cannot remember what nasa said this was... "

Nasa claimed these were particles that were blown around by a maneuvering jet...likely crystalized astronaut pee, ejected from spacecraft. However, shortly after this "incident" live shuttle feeds were no longer available on the satellite Nasa channel....

My belief (see the other thread), is that we are in a kind of "cold war" with the ETs...more like two angry business partners that keep cheating each other, than true, at-war foes.

Even if the whole 'dark side' theory of alien-government collaboration was true, that folktale still holds that the government has alien 'faster than light' technology in its hands, but can't figure out how to get it to work because it can only employ a handful of scientist, under repressive conditions, at any one time. Even if the aliens were bad... breaking the code of silence and treating them like friends would allow the government to employ every student and professor at every college in the country towards understanding it. Acting like third world warlords with useless weapons (that, for machismo reasons, we pretend are potent), who refuse to acknowledge the truly dependent position they are in, will only prevent us from developing the tech we REALLY need to deal with the aliens as equals.

The idea that we may only be behind them in the area of propulsion is wrong... sorry. We DO NOT have any secret weapon which can level the playing field, just as Bushmen in the jungle, though they might be better spear throwers than western missionaries, can not wage a strategic bombing campaign on the USA.

How can I presume that their tech is that much further along than ours... because they can fly from one star to another, a feat which requires more energy than has ever been produced by all of humanity.

Whoever urges conflict between humans and ETs is like the Native American chief who led, on canoe, all of his soldiers on a quest to cross the atlantic in hopes of destroying the England from which the white invaders came from...... the ocean is not a lake, the space between the stars and earth is not that between earth and the moon.

There is only one option: Peace and patience.

onlyinmydreams please share with us your knowledge of the alien's weapons. Since you have such intimate knowledge of their potential dangers, it is your duty to share this intelligence with us. Obviously you must be in a position to do this because of your knowledge of American secret weapons projects and know how they stack up against alien weapons. Please elucidate.

"The idea that we may only be behind them in the area of propulsion is wrong... sorry"

How do you know? As for weapons, I'm not proposing that we have some kind of super-weapon, but rather that our existing weapons (some of which are undoubtedly secret) are enough to stave off full-scale invasion. There has to be a reason they aren't invading, and it's either that they are benevolent (which isn't borne out by the evidence), or that there is some kind of arrangement (which would require that we have something they need, but couldn't get if they just conquered us, which isn't very logical), or that the costs of invasion are unacceptable to them (which is my conclusion). Feel free to disagree, but I'd love to hear other theories of why they simply haven't taken over if their technology is so god-like, and why they seem to sometimes crash....

According to certain conversations, although Area 51 does indeed contain a number of very advanced X Craft, they are mostly armed with weapons technology that we already understand. IE, high energy weapons of types publicly known to be in development, as well as the ability of all of them to deliver nuclear warheads.

By the way, does anyone notice, when you go back and research genuine UFO photos from the 1950s to today, that the UFOs seem to get more "modern" looking? IE, look at the south african series (1954 I believe) , and the UFOs look like the archetypical 1950s saucer, with a flat chine, squared cabin section, with a spire like antenna on top. UFOs captured today seem much more advanced, IE, completely blended body, no apparent portholes, no apparent protuberances or penetrations, and now different shapes are appearing, with a streamlined triangle becoming prominent (The TR-3B???)

Originally posted by Gazrok
Feel free to disagree, but I'd love to hear other theories of why they simply haven't taken over if their technology is so god-like, and why they seem to sometimes crash....

Ok... imagine 1000 years in the future.. Mankind now travels freely between the stars of this galaxy and has begun exploring the neighboring galaxies.
We find a planet with no resources we need and where the most advanced lifeform is basically a super-ape that doesn't really do anything except kill themselves by the millions.

What would the point of 'taking over' be? Fun?

OK,
Sorry to sound condescending before, but all the talk I see on this board about how we can "take 'em" is very scary.

How do I know that they are significantly more advanced than us? Well, every credentialed scientists out there will tell you that it would take more energy to send a ship to alpha centauri at .20 lightspeed than all of humanity has ever produced. Few will seriously speculate about sending a ship at speeds higher than .20, because past that cosmic rays and particles would be hitting your ship with the power of atom bombs, only focused on single spots along your ship.

Ok, so look at scientists who believe artificial wormholes can be constructed. Still, the consensus is that an artificial wormhole would require something on the scale of the energy produced by a star (a thing which makes sense considering that black holes are collapsed stars).

Now, are scientists wrong on occasion? Yes. Could their energy estimates be wrong? Yes. And, on top of that, could the idea that lightspeed is an absolute speed limit be wrong? Yes..
However, the fact that scientists could be wrong about their limits and requirements only emphasizes the tech difference between humans and aliens, as it shows that humans cannot even come up with serious THEORIES on how alien vehicles work.

...But, let's go back to our conservative estimates for a moment... let's say that the 'Greys' do have a civilization that can produce 'stellar' power.. well, to get back to the original question, is it smart to fight someone who can replicate the energy of a star? A civ that can send vehicles between stars, by the very nature of such a flight, is already demonstrating that it uses energy of a greater output than our best weapons on a daily basis.

Also, technology doesn't emerge from nowhere. For every use of technology there must also be support and purpose. We have 747s because there is an economic need for them... if aliens operate interstellar craft on a regular basis, they must have a need for them. Thus, it is almost certain that their civilization covers several star systems. Also, to fly a 747 requires a production line, a distributed system of logistics, and various trained personel. Even if the USA handed a 747 over to Bushmen in Africa, they would NOT be able to operate an airline (which brings up the "we're they're equals because they crash" objection... 747s crash, on occasion, yet they are far more advanced than canoes, wouldn't you say?).

If aliens are travelling between the stars they have the economic need and infrastructure to do so. Sure, we went to the moon... but we had the infrastructure to do that, and, by going towards the defeat of a communist system, had an economic benefit. Notice that, since the fall of the USSR, the space program has been severely neglected.

Sure, we might be able to mess with the aliens and even cause them casualties, in the event of an invasion, but so, too, the Zulus were able to inflict losses on the British. The problem, and lesson, with that is that the British only untied both hands and crushed the Zulu... even today, though the Zulu have nominal self-governance, they are, from an economic standpoint, entirely dependent on the West.

...Oh, and to say something like, "You have to prove that we don't have ET level weapons if you're to argue we can't fight ET" is not a valid point of argument, as it's safe to believe that our weapons ARE what we know them to be like, whereas the person who assumes we have ET level weapons is the one who has to prove stuff.

Sorry to be rude, but i honestly think the whole tough guy attitude is what keeps the human race from making real, bona fide contact with ETs. It also keeps us from becoming their equals, as it denies us access to their knowledge. The ONLY way to ever become the military equals of the ETs is to seek them out in a peaceful manner, make contact, try to learn from them, and then buy time until we have an equal infrastructure to theirs. Right now, all the 'we can fight them off' talk is like a tribesman singing about the honor of his clan and how he can defeat all enemies while squadrons of helicopter gunships fly over his head. Do you guys really want to be thought of as the "Human Information Minsister"?

Onlyinmydreams, Who are these scientists - I would like to look at their research. As far as I know, once you accelerate a space craft to certain speed, the energy requirements to maintain that speed is next to nothing.
This why NASA could send space probes past Jupiter, Saturn, Neptune, and Uranus. Once out of the earth's gravity well, the energy to modify course was quite reasonable. However, you did not give any information as to what kind of weapons are possessed by these beings.

The speeds the Pioneer and Voyager probes are flying at are not fast enough to reach another star with several thousand years. They are only a minuscule fraction of the speed of light.

Now, it may be possible for aliens to come here at speeds closer to what we can obtain now, however they would have to do so in large 'generational' ships, which would, though they may be at our near-technological level, imply, by their very existence, that ETs have a vastly superior industrial complex than we do.

As for what scientists say: yes, once something is accelerated to a certain speed, in space, it does not necessarily need more enrgy to keep it going. To get to that speed, however, requires energy. It took a 360+ tall rocket to send 3 men to the moon at 19,000 mph... Now, imagine what it would take to send 3 men on to Zeta Reticuli at 182,000miles per second (plus, Einstein pointed out that, as one approaches lightspeed, the energy required to accelerate from one speed to another does not increase in a linear fashion.. it curves upwards)!

So, you can say, maybe they don't need rockets or can bend space. Well, yeah, if they're coming here on a regular basis they may be able to do that... but such a feat is way beyond us (and, no, I don't have to prove that we can't do that-- you have to prove that we can).

I concede, though, that I have no idea what type of weapons the aliens have, only that, if they can bend space or accelerate to near lightspeed, that their industrial and technological base must easily dwarf our own.

onlyinmydreams - again I will ask you - what are the names of the scientists you are qouting? Who are they? I would very much like to obtain research papers written by these men and study their findings. Obviously you are familar with their research. Also in one post you spoke of 0.2c and in the next post 0.9c. Please explain this discrepancy.

....grrr

well, EINSTEIN is the one who said that 1) you can't fly faster than lightspeed, and 2) that, as you approach lightspeed, the energy required to accelerate increases in EXCESS of a linear application of energy... that is, if you burned 100 pounds of coal to reach 99 miles per hour (assuming locomotives ran at near lightspeed), burning an extra pound of coal on top of that won't get you to 100mph (which stands for c in this analogy).. you'd need, to get to 99.5, thousands of pounds of coal, and, to get to 100mph (c, in this lame anology), you'd need an infinite amount of coal.

Now, some highly regarded scientists, like KIP THORNE and STEVEN HAWKING, have speculated that artificial wormholes could be constructed, but that it would require energy levels far in excess of what I can describe (or what humanity can produce). Essentially, as a wormhole IS a collapsed star, you would need to be able to duplicate the TOTAL OUTPUT of a star to be able to even think about creating an artificial wormhole (under our science now... granted, science may be wrong, but, again, if it's wrong that just underlines how far the aliens are ahead of us).

So far as the .9 versus .2 thing goes... I only mentioned .9 as a best speed for ETs who might have some sort of field that deflects all the various things that will eat thru your craft at such speeds... now, before that, I pointed out that no earthly engineer thinks his great-grandson will be able to build a fuselage that can deflect particles going beyond .2 lightspeed... Do I think, really, that ETs are flying along at .9... no, but that just emphasises what I said abobe -- that the theoretical ideas behind their tech are, by their very nature, far beyond our own.

Now, Jflyer, you ask what scietists I'm relying on... well, any physics textbook, in any school, in any nation, will tell you the same things. Hell, most won't even bother to discuss the idea of traversible wormholes, as it's still 'iffy'. What they WILL tell you is that it would take power in excess of what we can produce now to accelerate a ship to near lightspeed..

...now, there were British scientists in the 70s who proposed the 'Deadalus' (sp) project, wherein 'nuclear pulse engines' could, possibly, accelerate a probe to .2c. Granted, this tech could be applied to manned ships, and I personally love the Orion-esque nuclear pulse option... but, within the realm of known physics, building a faster than light ship, or even a near light ship, is impossible. Again, yes, science may, and probably is, wrong.. but if we are SO wrong that just demonstrates that the aliens are many, many generations ahead of us.

reply to post by CindyPants


I don't know what you are talking about but the scientist tessla(SP?)invented a way of transmitting electricty through the air with out wires or loss of power. Many governments have always considered the posibility of turning this ability into a weapon. Has it been done? Who knows?

Also ultra sound has been considered for use as a non to lethal weapon depending on strength and frequency.

Ultra sound is low frequwncy sound that is below human hearing. It is used to send coded messages to US subs-or at least attempted-but this has messed up whales and their ability to communicate and navigate.

Human exposed to low frequency sounds-10, 15, 20 cycles will get sick after awhile, mainly gastro type illnesses which stop once the sound is stopped. Long term effects unknown. Ultrasound used at high levels of power can set-up sympathetic vibration in building causind distruction(Remeber the wall of jericho in the bible being destroyed with the sound of a horn) and at that level of power will probably not just disable humans but kill them. So the weapon would be a combonation of frequency and power. However problems probably exist in direting this type of weapon and protecting the users of the weapon because it has nothing to do with hearing the sound it is about the vibrations created by the sound.

Sorry this was so long a message but hope you find the infor fun/intresting. Check up on Tessla though interesting person.

I remember watching this. It looked like i was in orbit, and the UFO was hovering about, and than you see an attack fly right at the UFO and it quickly dodges out of the way. It was amazing.

Also I'm willing to bet half the "people" posting in this topic are actually undercover aliens using a wireless connection somewhere.

Here is the truth... I simply know... There is no such thing as extra terrestrial... What you are seeing is Ships from the future, They Work with a Magnetic Rotary System Powered by Electricity made from Nuclear. They look mostly like us except for the fact that they are simplified version of us. The reason why the Authority can't talk about it is because it would disrupt the space time continuum. Every Sighting can endanger the future hence the fact that they alter in Looks. Every sighting was followed by a time delay of some sort. Why do you think? They often appear when future events will occur.

Remember that the odds of advanced lifeform anywhere else in the universe are slim compared to humanity evolving to new High.

The goverments loves the fact you think they are little green man. Because he doesn't owe us an explanation.
Seek the Truth

I agree when you say that aliens who could travel to our planet are far more advanced technologically, and have created energy we cannot come near to. But who is to say they even have weapons, or even war in their world. They might have evolved much differently from our planet, where even animals attack one another, their world might be one where murder and war and weapons are foreign concepts.

I think I've seen this footage, it was black and white
and there does seem to be a pulsing just before the
'object' flees towards the earth's horizon.

At the time of the episode, NASA were relating info
pertaining to the preparation of re-entry.
Me?... I think it's all code words.

Sayings like "Mind that Ice-Piss, it's a doozy to get off
your uniform!" are obvious secret sayings for "Don't
move the camera, we'll broadcast the flying saucers
taking a broad-side on TV!"

It's quite obvious that they couldn't wait for the Shuttle
to move away from the scene, so they blasted at the
craft from Earth... hoping that nobody down here saw a
beam shooting up into the atmosphere.

It was solid urine and manouvering jets... Lee Oswald
told me.

Originally posted by CindyPants
Nasa said it was an "illusion" Which is bullsh*t

Here is the video mixed in with other clips from NASA
They said it was ice crystals that moved when a reaction motor fired which is suppoesdly the flash you see before the movement.
Enjoy start @ :26






[edit on 4-1-2009 by SLAYER69]

As a speices that gets &$%#ed every time somthing changes or somthing NEW happens.. if i was an alien race i would undersatnd that the only way for humans to gain knowledge is for them to approch it themselves when ready..... so you would have to crash a spaceship and let them cheer and say look! what we found... its harmless!

now lets explore!

if tey were to land and say come in! im shure the river would run yellow with piss, because they may not look like fluffy cuddly bunnies.

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by CindyPants
Nasa said it was an "illusion" Which is bullsh*t

Here is the video mixed in with other clips from NASA
They said it was ice crystals that moved when a reaction motor fired which is suppoesdly the flash you see before the movement.
Enjoy start @ :26

I think the thing to think about here & in many of the infra red footage is why they are filming it in the first place, i mean they are not going to film a bit of ice out the window are they?, just like the footage where they are filming the storms and watching the ufo,s gather. Then just to prove they are not fixed external cameras the guy filming them zooms in on a group of three or four that are moving in all directions!
They know exactly what there looking at & filming, its just a pity they are so tight lipped when it comes to there explanations !