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President Obama Should Issue an Executive Order to Raise the Debt Ceiling
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reply to post by OpinionatedB
It worked pretty well when Julius Caesar did it. He balanced the distribution of wealth and power in Rome pretty well, with a strong focus on giving land, money and jobs back to the middle class (freemen). Sadly his predecessors kinda effed it up after he was assassinated.
It worked pretty well when Julius Caesar did it. He balanced the distribution of wealth and power in Rome pretty well, with a strong focus on giving land, money and jobs back to the middle class (freemen). Sadly his predecessors kinda effed it up after he was assassinated.
Can he actually do this, I thought that the constitution said that Congress (both houses) had to agree on a budget for it to pass.
Or
Can a executive order override this?
I am really just wondering how it works
thanks
Or
Can a executive order override this?
I am really just wondering how it works
thanks
Kryyptyk
reply to post by sonnny1
I agree, executive orders shouldn't be used so frivolously. Let the elected officials 'work' it out. If the Prez starts issuing and enforcing exec orders for something as trivial as a bipartisan dispute, I foresee a dangerous precedent.
Frivolously ?!?!?!?!?
DO you have any Idea how bad a defualt would be?
I think avoidng great Great Depression 2.0 warrenst a excetive order! In fact I dont know excpet WW3 would warrent one more!
reply to post by AlienView
President Obama has the institutional authority to put an end to this game, thus unilaterally preventing an international economic crisis. The question remains whether he will do so, and what those actions would mean for the crisis.
Whoever wrote this is patently wrong.
The president has NO authority to unilaterally raise the debt ceiling. This is entirely the purview of congress and that is it.
Why is it that every time we run into problems in this country the immediate go-to is to ignore the constitution all together?
Edit to add:
Article. I.
Section. 1.
All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives
Section. 8.
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;
Powers of the president:
Article. II.
Section. 1.
The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his Office during the Term of four Years, and, together with the Vice President, chosen for the same Term, be elected, as follows:
Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.
The Electors shall meet in their respective States, and vote by Ballot for two Persons, of whom one at least shall not be an Inhabitant of the same State with themselves. And they shall make a List of all the Persons voted for, and of the Number of Votes for each; which List they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the Seat of the Government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate. The President of the Senate shall, in the Presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the Certificates, and the Votes shall then be counted. The Person having the greatest Number of Votes shall be the President, if such Number be a Majority of the whole Number of Electors appointed; and if there be more than one who have such Majority, and have an equal Number of Votes, then the House of Representatives shall immediately chuse by Ballot one of them for President; and if no Person have a Majority, then from the five highest on the List the said House shall in like Manner chuse the President. But in chusing the President, the Votes shall be taken by States, the Representation from each State having one Vote; A quorum for this purpose shall consist of a Member or Members from two thirds of the States, and a Majority of all the States shall be necessary to a Choice. In every Case, after the Choice of the President, the Person having the greatest Number of Votes of the Electors shall be the Vice President. But if there should remain two or more who have equal Votes, the Senate shall chuse from them by Ballot the Vice President.
The Congress may determine the Time of chusing the Electors, and the Day on which they shall give their Votes; which Day shall be the same throughout the United States.
No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.
In Case of the Removal of the President from Office, or of his Death, Resignation, or Inability to discharge the Powers and Duties of the said Office, the Same shall devolve on the Vice President, and the Congress may by Law provide for the Case of Removal, Death, Resignation or Inability, both of the President and Vice President, declaring what Officer shall then act as President, and such Officer shall act accordingly, until the Disability be removed, or a President shall be elected.
The President shall, at stated Times, receive for his Services, a Compensation, which shall neither be increased nor diminished during the Period for which he shall have been elected, and he shall not receive within that Period any other Emolument from the United States, or any of them.
Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:--"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."
Section. 2.
The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.
He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law: but the Congress may by Law vest the Appointment of such inferior Officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the Courts of Law, or in the Heads of Departments.
The President shall have Power to fill up all Vacancies that may happen during the Recess of the Senate, by granting Commissions which shall expire at the End of their next Session.
Section. 3.
He shall from time to time give to the Congress Information of the State of the Union, and recommend to their Consideration such Measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient; he may, on extraordinary Occasions, convene both Houses, or either of them, and in Case of Disagreement between them, with Respect to the Time of Adjournment, he may adjourn them to such Time as he shall think proper; he shall receive Ambassadors and other public Ministers; he shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed, and shall Commission all the Officers of the United States.
Section. 4.
The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.
I think I have more than made my point.
edit on 16-10-2013 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)
Evil_Santa
reply to post by OpinionatedB
It worked pretty well when Julius Caesar did it. He balanced the distribution of wealth and power in Rome pretty well, with a strong focus on giving land, money and jobs back to the middle class (freemen). Sadly his predecessors kinda effed it up after he was assassinated.
You want to compare Obama to Julius Caesar? That alone is seriously laughable, however, lets go on one single premise, You want a dictator and an end to the constitution and a democratic republic...
My forefathers fought against the British and fought in every single war since the very first ones on this soil for one thing and one thing only...
Freedom..... freedom against tyranny etc etc etc
I tell you what... Because they gave their blood and their lives so I could enjoy freedom I too will give my blood and my life for my grandchildren and the future generations...
Anyone who wants to turn this country into something other than what my forefathers fought for I say bring it on....
lets see who wins!
You want a dictatorial society and a tyrannical government? Move... leave this country whose soil was fertilized by the blood of my fathers family... there are plenty of those societies out there... you don't need to be in this country then...
edit on 16-10-2013 by OpinionatedB because: (no
reason given)
OpinionatedB
Evil_Santa
reply to post by OpinionatedB
It worked pretty well when Julius Caesar did it. He balanced the distribution of wealth and power in Rome pretty well, with a strong focus on giving land, money and jobs back to the middle class (freemen). Sadly his predecessors kinda effed it up after he was assassinated.
You want to compare Obama to Julius Caesar? That alone is seriously laughable, however, lets go on one single premise, You want a dictator and an end to the constitution and a democratic republic...
My forefathers fought against the British and fought in every single war since the very first ones on this soil for one thing and one thing only...
Freedom..... freedom against tyranny etc etc etc
I tell you what... Because they gave their blood and their lives so I could enjoy freedom I too will give my blood and my life for my grandchildren and the future generations...
Anyone who wants to turn this country into something other than what my forefathers fought for I say bring it on....
lets see who wins!
You want a dictatorial society and a tyrannical government? Move... leave this country whose soil was fertilized by the blood of my fathers family... there are plenty of those societies out there... you don't need to be in this country then...edit on 16-10-2013 by OpinionatedB because: (no reason given)
Exactly if you hate what America stands for so much you don't have to force everyone who loves freedom to your way of thinking. America IS all about it's moral values and the very reason it has been the most successful nation in the shortest period of time in world history. The reason America is no longer that beacon of truth and prosperity is the PROGRESSIVES who MOVE TO SUBVERT DISENGAGE AMERICAN VALUES, THE CONSTITUTION, BILL OF RIGHTS, etc and form a new system, some quasi social-communist system, are exactly to blame. (Democrats AND Republicans) Well you can take your pick of impoverished dictatorial nations to move to if that's what you want. I'd rather keep the old America which in my own opinion was nothing short of divinely inspired as it offered liberty, privacy, and protection FOR ALL. A novel concept you wackadoos ignorantly cheer on to be removed and abandoned
edit on 16-10-2013 by libertytoall because: (no reason given)
Pejeu
I too think they should cut spending.
Then maybe people like you got what's sorely coming to you as the economy collapses completely.
The current paradigm based on the federal reserve private banks is a *fraud*. It is unsustainable and is mathematically guaranteed to crash. The question is: How much damage can these criminals inflict and how much of our real, physical resources can they steal before they crater?
What's coming to us after the crash depends on what we have learned. If we keep supporting corporate and banking criminals, say goodbye to the country. If we put the government back in control of issuing debt-free, gold-backed currency, we can start to grow again.
If we remove the federal reserve and end the corruption, what's coming to us will surely look, feel and smell .... like liberty.
I think it is time for Americans to stop thinking that the world's economy will collapse if America defaults or even if its economy collapses. Other
countries will take hits to their economies, no doubt about it, but they will re-align themselves to other strong economies (already underway) even as
America implodes.
The rest of world will not seek to save America from itself, but it will seek to extricate itself from its corrupt fiscal policies. There are a number of ways to view the intransigent politics currently on display in America. The first question to ask is...why are American politicians behaving the way they are? Whom does their behaviour serve and to what end? Whom does it aid, and whom does it 'kick to the kerb'.
You already know their behaviour is not good for the country, so they are obviously not serving the needs of the nation. These are not observances you can ignore. Then again, these are not just warnings for Americans alone, they are for all peoples of other nations.
The rest of the world will let America sink with no qualms whatsoever. American currency will be dumped before the rest of the world allows itself to be dragged down too far. Nobody will want to touch American currency and American goods, and the vacuum where America once was, will be filled by other countries currencies.
Think of it in this way. The rest of the world is an ocean liner, and America is a far smaller boat being towed at the back, but taking on water (debt) and unable to bail (make payments) enough of it out to make any progress. The thing is, some parts of the ocean liner are suggesting cutting the towing rope because of the drag the smaller boat is having on the liner. This argument has raged for quite some time, but now, those whom voiced for keeping America connected (for fear of losing investment) are now beginning to think it would be better to cut the rope (to take the hit)...evidenced by the behaviour of American politicians who don't seem to be helping the situation at all, but merely compounding it.
Whatever happens, even if a deal is reached, the world is going to adjust itself in the near future so it will never be held to ransom by American fiscal policy ever again.
The rest of world will not seek to save America from itself, but it will seek to extricate itself from its corrupt fiscal policies. There are a number of ways to view the intransigent politics currently on display in America. The first question to ask is...why are American politicians behaving the way they are? Whom does their behaviour serve and to what end? Whom does it aid, and whom does it 'kick to the kerb'.
You already know their behaviour is not good for the country, so they are obviously not serving the needs of the nation. These are not observances you can ignore. Then again, these are not just warnings for Americans alone, they are for all peoples of other nations.
The rest of the world will let America sink with no qualms whatsoever. American currency will be dumped before the rest of the world allows itself to be dragged down too far. Nobody will want to touch American currency and American goods, and the vacuum where America once was, will be filled by other countries currencies.
Think of it in this way. The rest of the world is an ocean liner, and America is a far smaller boat being towed at the back, but taking on water (debt) and unable to bail (make payments) enough of it out to make any progress. The thing is, some parts of the ocean liner are suggesting cutting the towing rope because of the drag the smaller boat is having on the liner. This argument has raged for quite some time, but now, those whom voiced for keeping America connected (for fear of losing investment) are now beginning to think it would be better to cut the rope (to take the hit)...evidenced by the behaviour of American politicians who don't seem to be helping the situation at all, but merely compounding it.
Whatever happens, even if a deal is reached, the world is going to adjust itself in the near future so it will never be held to ransom by American fiscal policy ever again.
edit on 16/10/13 by elysiumfire because: (no reason given)
reply to post by beezzer
Don't you mean Cheney?
That clown couldn't pronounce nuclear and choked on a potato chip,I'm sure his dad wouldn't let him run around with a sharp object and kept an overseer there at all times.
Don't you mean Cheney?
That clown couldn't pronounce nuclear and choked on a potato chip,I'm sure his dad wouldn't let him run around with a sharp object and kept an overseer there at all times.
Kryyptyk
reply to post by sonnny1
I agree, executive orders shouldn't be used so frivolously. Let the elected officials 'work' it out. If the Prez starts issuing and enforcing exec orders for something as trivial as a bipartisan dispute, I foresee a dangerous precedent.
Exactly what I was about to say. Executive orders can be a dangerous abuse of power..
Evil_Santa
Quadrivium
Evil_Santa
and could possibly set off another chain of events that engages the democrats to the point of sweeping in 2014 and 2016.
Now that is a scary thought!
Don't you think we're in enough trouble as it is?
Well.. considering the record amount of filibustering that has gone on during his terms and that the Dems only had some 9 weeks of owning congress/executive branch in 2010, I would say that no - it is not a scary thought. What is a scary thought, is this stagnation of government continuing. Put people to work, pass jobs bills. Spend the 3.4 trillion dollars our infrastructure needs to be upgraded (before we have another bridge collapse. My dad's OSHA and dealt with the dead bodies in MN 6 years ago when the 35W bridge collapsed).
"Oh we don't have 3.4 trillion to spend on that"
Yes, we do, and that will put a lot of people to work, and provide our citizens with disposable income to spend and boost the economy. Where should it come from? Frankly the top 1%. They benefit the most from using our infrastructure, and they should foot a lot of the bill for it. Argue as much as you want, but if wasn't for interstate commerce, they wouldn't be rich.
Awwww aren't you just the cutest thing!
So you want to bankrupt the top 1%. Ok that should give the junkies in DC a real rush!
All that cash may last them.....what? 6 months at most?
Who should we go after next?
Middle class?
Our government has a HUGE spending problem. Throwing more at it will solve nothing.
Pejeu
gladtobehere
But they wont.
They wont cut spending. Why? Its like a drug to them. The easiest place to start is with the trillions being spent on the overseas empire and the domestic police state.
No way in hell they want to set the precedence of spending less.
I too think they should cut spending.
Then maybe people like you got what's sorely coming to you as the economy collapses completely.
Spoken as a true recipient of US tax payer dollars.
$13,007,000 in Foreign Assistance has been requested for Romania in FY 2013. .... more funding that U.S. Government country office received in that fiscal year.
Romania 2010 Military aid :$15,132,000 1946-2010 Military aid total: $240,005,571 and these figures don't include all the other millions of dollars Romania receives from the US.
Evil_Santa
He'll gain a bit of my respect if he does, but in doing so he would also possibly set the precedence for him to be impeached. In doing so he would become a martyr of the democratic party, and could possibly set off another chain of events that engages the democrats to the point of sweeping in 2014 and 2016.
The Dems let their guard down in 2010 and 2012 gerrymandering secured too many hairline victories by the GOP.
In doing so we might as well call him ruler instead of president.
Quadrivium
Evil_Santa
Quadrivium
Evil_Santa
and could possibly set off another chain of events that engages the democrats to the point of sweeping in 2014 and 2016.
Now that is a scary thought!
Don't you think we're in enough trouble as it is?
Well.. considering the record amount of filibustering that has gone on during his terms and that the Dems only had some 9 weeks of owning congress/executive branch in 2010, I would say that no - it is not a scary thought. What is a scary thought, is this stagnation of government continuing. Put people to work, pass jobs bills. Spend the 3.4 trillion dollars our infrastructure needs to be upgraded (before we have another bridge collapse. My dad's OSHA and dealt with the dead bodies in MN 6 years ago when the 35W bridge collapsed).
"Oh we don't have 3.4 trillion to spend on that"
Yes, we do, and that will put a lot of people to work, and provide our citizens with disposable income to spend and boost the economy. Where should it come from? Frankly the top 1%. They benefit the most from using our infrastructure, and they should foot a lot of the bill for it. Argue as much as you want, but if wasn't for interstate commerce, they wouldn't be rich.
Awwww aren't you just the cutest thing!
So you want to bankrupt the top 1%. Ok that should give the junkies in DC a real rush!
All that cash may last them.....what? 6 months at most?
Who should we go after next?
Middle class?
Our government has a HUGE spending problem. Throwing more at it will solve nothing.
Bankrupt the top 1% and the vast majority of jobs will go bye bye too. These people need to understand it will only setup a new top 1% to be eliminated too, and one day when Evil_Santa is on the street corner with a can of beans that no one else has he will be that new top 1% and it will be his turn....hehe
edit on 16-10-2013 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)
juspassinthru
Pejeu
I too think they should cut spending.
Then maybe people like you got what's sorely coming to you as the economy collapses completely.
The current paradigm based on the federal reserve private banks is a *fraud*. It is unsustainable and is mathematically guaranteed to crash. The question is: How much damage can these criminals inflict and how much of our real, physical resources can they steal before they crater?
What's coming to us after the crash depends on what we have learned. If we keep supporting corporate and banking criminals, say goodbye to the country. If we put the government back in control of issuing debt-free, gold-backed currency, we can start to grow again.
If we remove the federal reserve and end the corruption, what's coming to us will surely look, feel and smell .... like liberty.
"The Trilateral Commission is intended to be the vehicle for multinational consolidation of the commercial and banking interests by seizing control of the political government of the United States. The Trilateral Commission represents a skillful, coordinated effort to seize control and consolidate the four centers of power political, monetary, intellectual and ecclesiastical. What the Trilateral Commission intends is to create a worldwide economic power superior to the political governments of the nationstates involved. As managers and creators of the system, they will rule the future."
--U.S. Senator Barry Goldwater in his l964 book: With No Apologies
"if the Constitution gives to the US government the authority to make and issue public currency without interest, why for the last 100 years has the US government borrowed all the public currency at interest from a privately owned central bank?"
--Michael Rivero [webmaster, activist, and talk show host]
WELCOME TO THE NEW WORLD ORDER - RESISTANCE IS FUTILE!!!
crazyewok
Kryyptyk
reply to post by sonnny1
I agree, executive orders shouldn't be used so frivolously. Let the elected officials 'work' it out. If the Prez starts issuing and enforcing exec orders for something as trivial as a bipartisan dispute, I foresee a dangerous precedent.
Frivolously ?!?!?!?!?
DO you have any Idea how bad a defualt would be?
I think avoidng great Great Depression 2.0 warrenst a excetive order! In fact I dont know excpet WW3 would warrent one more!
You obviously don't understand the great danger that executive orders present.
As I've stated several times already, making an executive order to bypass the legislative arm effectively presents a blank check for future bypasses.
Precedent is considered a legal rationale for action or judgement, and setting one in this manner would usher in much more than you realize.
So in a nutshell: If you really trust the President 100%, go ahead - support an executive order. He'll be your dictator, not mine.