President Obama Should Issue an Executive Order to Raise the Debt Ceiling

Where in the 14th amendment does it say the president has the authority to incur debt on the credit of the United States??

It does not.
In fact is says the opposite.

What it mean is, the debt shall be paid first, before anything.

Also the president has no power at all under the 14th amendment.
Want to know how I know this?

TextSection 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void."

TextSection 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article."

Section 5 clearly states who has the authority under the 14th amendment.
Congress.

The treasury act of 1789 authorizes the treasury to pay the debt and obligations.

Article 1 of the constitution, gives congress the authority to incur debt on the credit of the United States.
Not the president.

Do you really want the president to go down that road?
Violating the most precious part of the separation of powers, the power of the purse.
In essence you would make the congress pointless.
Why would we even elect a congress if they have no power?

And you would essentially create a dictator.

Doing this is an impeachable offense. and not paying the interest and principe on the debt is also an impeachable offense.
The treasury is part of the executive branch. The president is responsible if the debt is not paid.

Now, who are the anarchists?
The ones who want the constitution upheld down to the letter?
Or
The ones who openly call for the president to violate the constitution?
You know the "law of the land"

The constitution protects us all from government tyranny.
And doing this is tyranny.

reply to post by AlienView


You're not talking about an adult stepping in, you're talking about a blank check.

Make no mistake, an executive order is -not- some political messiah. Its a dangerous precedent that will be used to usher in much more than you're bargaining for.

Kryyptyk

I agree, executive orders shouldn't be used so frivolously. Let the elected officials 'work' it out. If the Prez starts issuing and enforcing exec orders for something as trivial as a bipartisan dispute, I foresee a dangerous precedent.

Or a few million folks marching and demanding his resignation.

I honestly could see that happening.

reply to post by bjax9er

OK from the original blog I first quoted:

True, President Obama has expressed reluctance to raise the debt ceiling unilaterally, as some have questioned whether such action would be constitutionally valid. But such arguments fail to account for the contradiction between appropriations bills and the debt ceiling: since Congress has both authorized spending and denied the President the means to collect the money to cover that spending, the President is technically in violation of the Constitution whether he raises the debt ceiling or not. Put differently, the President is charged constitutionally both with executing the appropriations bills authorized by Congress as well as protecting the full faith and credit of the United States. A unilateral increase in the debt ceiling may be the only way to uphold his Constitutional duties. As such, his primary constitutional responsibility is to implement the laws in such a way as to best protect the interests of the nation. And the longer this crisis plays out, the clearer it will become to all involved – especially President Obama – that a state of emergency is upon us, and that the best way he can protect the interests of our nation is to unilaterally raise the debt ceiling.....

Author:
Saul Jackman
Fellow, Governance Studies
"Saul Jackman is a fellow in the Governance Studies program, and a member of the Center for Effective Public Management, at the Brookings Institution. He is an expert on executive institutions and inter-branch relations. His research interests also include micro-economic theory, quantitative methodology, and budgetary politics."

link to full article:
www.brookings.edu...

Wow.
There is no risk of default. None.

The 14th amendment requires the debt be serviced first.
Obama doesn't want that.
He wants another 7 trillion dollars to blow.

You demonrats act as if your so smart, yet you come here repeating the same lies Obama spews everyday.
Default
Default default.

There will be no default.
$250 billion in revenues each month.
$20 billion in debt service each month.
You do know how to add and subtract don't you.

Please explain to me why would we need to borrow more money to service the debt.
Wouldn't that mean we were bankrupt?
What sane entity would loan a bankrupt nation anything.
None.

Stop watching msnbc.
It is frying your brain.
Stop listening to Obama.
He is a tyrant.

Read the constitution!!!!

AlienView
reply to post by bjax9er

 

OK from the original blog I first quoted:

True, President Obama has expressed reluctance to raise the debt ceiling unilaterally, as some have questioned whether such action would be constitutionally valid. But such arguments fail to account for the contradiction between appropriations bills and the debt ceiling: since Congress has both authorized spending and denied the President the means to collect the money to cover that spending, the President is technically in violation of the Constitution whether he raises the debt ceiling or not. Put differently, the President is charged constitutionally both with executing the appropriations bills authorized by Congress as well as protecting the full faith and credit of the United States. A unilateral increase in the debt ceiling may be the only way to uphold his Constitutional duties. As such, his primary constitutional responsibility is to implement the laws in such a way as to best protect the interests of the nation. And the longer this crisis plays out, the clearer it will become to all involved – especially President Obama – that a state of emergency is upon us, and that the best way he can protect the interests of our nation is to unilaterally raise the debt ceiling.....

Author:
Saul Jackman
Fellow, Governance Studies
"Saul Jackman is a fellow in the Governance Studies program, and a member of the Center for Effective Public Management, at the Brookings Institution. He is an expert on executive institutions and inter-branch relations. His research interests also include micro-economic theory, quantitative methodology, and budgetary politics."

link to full article:
www.brookings.edu...

I don't care who he is or what he has done.
He is a useful idiot.

Do you want a president, or a dictator?

Read the constitution!!!!

reply to post by bjax9er


I wonder what he would do if the FED decided to increase interest rates to even 5%?

sonnny1
reply to post by bjax9er

 

I wonder what he would do if the FED decided to increase interest rates to even 5%?

What would you do?
Borrow more money?

We have enough money to pay our debt.

The default is a lie so DC can spend more money.

reply to post by bjax9er


I would start PAYING the debt. Its the reason I have no debt.

From the same article:

So if laws allow the president to declare a national emergency and subsequently act unilaterally (i.e., without the explicit consent of Congress) to resolve that emergency, then the next question is, what constitutes an emergency? Judging by past actions, emergencies include wars, natural disasters, and economic catastrophes. Would the United States defaulting on its debt qualify? By most predictions, it would. A Goldman-Sachs report estimates a 4.2% drop in annualized GDP as an immediate consequence of the government cutting its spending as needed to stay under the debt limit for just a single month. Unemployment rates are likely to rise – the Great Recession saw unemployment increase from 5.0% in December 2007 to 10.0% in October 2009, and default is expected to yield similar effects. And depending on governmental spending decisions, social security payments may be halted if the debt ceiling is not raised by November 1. Surely, these projections constitute an emergency worthy of extraordinary measures. An executive order to raise the debt ceiling may not completely eliminate market uncertainty, but it would greatly reduce concerns relative to possible chaos in financial markets.

www.brookings.edu...

Actually, and now that you decided to call me a Democrat, I'm still registered as a Republican, but not to worry I'm in the process of changing to an independent. And I really hope you are right about this not being as serious as
those economic profits who call it economic Armageddon - but something tells me they are right and this is as serious as it can get. In the entire history of the United States of America it has never yet defaulted.

reply to post by AlienView

The first time was in 1790, the only episode Professor Reinhart unearthed in which the United States defaulted on its external debt obligations. It also defaulted on its domestic debt obligations then, too. Then in 1933, in the midst of the Great Depression, the United States had another domestic debt default related to the repayment of gold-based obligations.

The U.S. Has REPEATEDLY Defaulted,It’s a Myth that the U.S. Has Never Defaulted On Its Debt

sonnny1
reply to post by AlienView

 

The first time was in 1790, the only episode Professor Reinhart unearthed in which the United States defaulted on its external debt obligations. It also defaulted on its domestic debt obligations then, too. Then in 1933, in the midst of the Great Depression, the United States had another domestic debt default related to the repayment of gold-based obligations.

The U.S. Has REPEATEDLY Defaulted,It’s a Myth that the U.S. Has Never Defaulted On Its Debt

Interesting - makes you wonder why and who benefits from telling everyone the US never defaulted as that has been spread all over the mainstream news. Still in a world based upon phony money, phony debt and credit being more important than 'real money' [whatever that means], for a major nation to default on debt must be considered serious.
Can anyone really see some good in the US losing its credit rating? I suppose some of you will say the US will then spend less - Problem is government is so large, whether you like if or not, and is the biggest employer and spender
in the nation, so that when the government cuts back drastically on spending hard time are inevitable - How many
people working for government and businesses tied to government contracts are going to suffer? But you will have you way, smaller government.

Are you people actually falling for the doom and gloom that if we don't raise the debt ceiling the sky will fall and all of europe will starve? COME ONE PEOPLE... All that will happen if we don't raise the debt ceiling is slightly higher interest rates from a downgraded credit rating and FEDERAL BUDGET CUTS.. OH MY GOD THE HORROR OF DOING THE RIGHT THING.. Raising the debt ceiling only enslaves you further. I say keep the government shutdown until 2016. As of right now every American is responsible for $1,103,000 in taxes over their life. You want to put people further in debt?? Are you CRAZY??? A typical American making 30,000 a year would have to surrender their entire paycheck for 37 years just to pay the debt off and you want to make it more??? ARE YOU CRAZY?? THIRTY SEVEN YEARS!!! So start working at 18 and when you turn 55 you can start keeping some of your money.

Some of you want to make it 75 years old before you make a cent. Think I'm lying? Go look at the federal debt clock yourself and see our unfunded liabilities for each US citizen.

sonnny1
reply to post by AlienView

 

The first time was in 1790, the only episode Professor Reinhart unearthed in which the United States defaulted on its external debt obligations. It also defaulted on its domestic debt obligations then, too. Then in 1933, in the midst of the Great Depression, the United States had another domestic debt default related to the repayment of gold-based obligations.

The U.S. Has REPEATEDLY Defaulted,It’s a Myth that the U.S. Has Never Defaulted On Its Debt

Fascinating, and ty for the information. This bit scares me a bit though, as it kind of proves that a US default will hurt the economy more then if it doesn't.

This default was temporary. Treasury did pay these T-bills after a short delay. But it balked at paying additional interest to cover the period of delay. According to Zivney and Marcus, it required both legal arm twisting and new legislation before Treasury made all investors whole for that additional interest.

Essentially even if the US defaults, all debts will eventually be paid - but this time with late fees and extra interest charges thus slamming it into the predicament of "it's expensive to be poor".

libertytoall
Are you people actually falling for the doom and gloom that if we don't raise the debt ceiling the sky will fall and all of europe will starve? COME ONE PEOPLE... All that will happen if we don't raise the debt ceiling is slightly higher interest rates from a downgraded credit rating and FEDERAL BUDGET CUTS.. OH MY GOD THE HORROR OF DOING THE RIGHT THING.. Raising the debt ceiling only enslaves you further.

edit on 16-10-2013 by libertytoall because: (no reason given)

I must ask you to please stop using rational explanations in these threads.

If you aren't going to participate in the hyperbole and mind-numbing panic, then please, at least blame it all on Bush.

Thank you.

-management.

reply to post by beezzer


LOL, so true, so true.

Seriously, let the fake debt default. The alternative is much worse.

President Obama Should Issue an Executive Order to Raise the Debt Ceiling

That would be irresponsible. Let the US 'default'. It's the honest thing to do.
Make the US stop spending recklessly ... stop giving away billions to foreign gov'ts for a start.
Stop needless wars ....like the one Obama was about to start with Syria.
FORCE the gov't to stop wasteful spending.
We will be a leaner and healthier country in the end.

reply to post by AlienView


So, in effect, you want Obama to declare himself a dictator, and made null and void the constitution, so that our elected officials can do dumb things with our tax money rather than do important things like pay our debt and help do things right for the people inside this country?

on Monday the U.S. Army contracted to buy a mechanical bull. The $47,174 contract was awarded on Oct. 7 to Mechanical Bull Sales Inc. of State College, Penn. - See more at: cnsnews.com...

I say let the house burn down if they cant pull their heads out of the sand! I am sick and tired the things that have been going on today... Our constitution is for a reason... its about time we started making certain it was upheld! Our elected officials need to stop acting like kids in a candy store with this nations money and start doing the things that are good for this country!

We either clean house in America, or die as a sovereign nation -- stop the government's multi-trillion dollar spending spree, end the unconstitutional wars, send dependent illegal immigrants home, abolish the IRS, burn the Federal Reserve, eradicate self-serving lobbyists, dismantle corporate monopolies, imprison corrupt politicians, stop fracking mother earth, hang those who were actually responsible for 9/11, etc., etc., etc...

F.T.G.