Quit spewing disinformation. Their is NO credit score required....et al

boncho
omething I like about Canada, see, there is this law, that media organizations which claim to be news sources, they are not allowed to lie to the public. America lost that court case, you can look it up. So yes, I say shut your mouths all the time, to politicians, and to lying media that are pushing bias, agenda based BS.

Ahhh ok. Yes. Ye Commonwealthers are never lied to by your media because there are words on paper. Gotcha.

boncho
And you are not presenting any, as I said, a sea of rhetoric.

There you go looking for someone else to do the work for you again.

boncho
Tell me the list of unconstitutional laws you repealed over the last ten years Joe Citizen? How is the patriot act and the NDAA working out for you? How did the Iraq war which was based on documented redactions (See:lies) from CIA missinformation.

Well... for the past 17 years engaging in discussions like this online... I've been doing my best to increase the awareness of all of those and similar things before they came to pass, during, and after. I've watched the efforts of people like me help dramatically alter the conversation in the US and the world over those past 17 years.

I also accepted that it wouldn't be a light bulb that we could just switch and go back to a non-co-opted government. Knowing that the government had been more or less fully taken over before my Grandparents were even born, I had no illusions this effort would get things like that repealed anytime soon.

The speed of the change has in fact been faster than I expected... though I have no idea if it will all be smashed before the pendulum gets the chance to swing back or not. Probably. But at least many many many more people are aware, discussing, and participating. Yes... I was supporting Ron Paul when there weren't even many people who had heard of him enough to call him a nutter.

boncho
Oh but you are ready to make a stand with ACA to save the world, you go you.

Actually no... I've never said anything about the ACA anywhere... ever... until this thread. And I haven't even given my opinions on the ACA itself at all. Only the issues with what the lady from the OP was doing... and then some on the manner we go about dealing with laws like it as per the things the OP in particular was stating.

Well that and holding up a mirror for you.

But it's ok... I understand.

boncho
Consider this banter terminated. You have no argument other than your ego was damaged a little by my comment, and I tire of petty bickering very easily.

Ahh yes. Clearly it's *my* ego that was damaged. Thanks for the compassion! /hug

Jesus, OP. I just do whatever the World Health Organization tells me, to do. They even send candy to Africa.

Whatever they want. Anything they say.

I used to look at other ideas and stuff, but there were just too many.
Then someone suggested that some of the theories were lies, and that person...I just wanted to kick in his teeth.

And the stuff I saw changed my whole perspective. But they had the answers, for that.

And I'm a Christian! It turned me white as a sheet and even my partner turned white when she saw it! I cannot say!

PEOPLE DIED!

'Nuff said.


Read that again. Not the 'Nuff said' part. I mean the 'PEOPLE DIED' part.

So, all of it is true. Why would anyone in their right mind think that they wouldn't die too? Especially with missing teeth!

So, keep up the good work. You really must. I AM a transhumanist.

# 68

reply to post by TheWhiteKnight


Seriously?? What are you saying? I am trying to feel you but you may be PUI (posting under the influence).

Bottom line. It is the law. The corrupt Supreme Court has gone ahead and said so.

Undoing the law would be like trying to undue the Patriot Act.

THE FASCISTS HAVE SPOKEN.

I don't even want to get started on how the disinformed believe we are approaching socialism. They are so freaking head knocked there is no undoing that.

Carry on, Koch brother torch carriers. Burn it all down. Dumb as****

reply to post by BardingTheBard


OK great. Go ahead and assemble your army. Take your fight to Capital Hill. You tie them down and we will be right behind you.

Ha ha ha

GrantedBail
I don't even want to get started on how the disinformed believe we are approaching socialism. They are so freaking head knocked there is no undoing that.

Socialism and Fascism are completely capable of working hand in hand.

But you are right, the US has been a hybrid socialist country for a long time.

reply to post by BardingTheBard


Describe how we have been a hybrid socialist anything?? Hurry up. I am getting sleepy.

reply to post by GrantedBail

Where did I suggest anything of the sort? I'm truly sorry that you are so utterly demoralized.

I don't expect to save the US in the slightest. But that doesn't change the truth of the nature of human laws at all times in all places through history and the future... which is what the post you were replying to was about.

We aren't subservient to human laws. We are subservient to people with guns willing to use them when we aren't. Marching on Capital Hill would just be pointless. There is a reason I haven't run for office... because it is way less valuable than spending the time working locally with family/friends/community as well as discussing worldwide in order for all of us to understand as much as we can so we can see what options we *do* have.

It's not like Germany or Rome suddenly ceased to exist when they collapsed.

But sure... go lay down on Capital Hill and offer your belly for a scratch from your overlords if you like.

boncho

beezzer

boncho

beezzer

GrantedBail
reply to post by sonnny1

 

The ACA is the law of the land. I don't like it either. But it is foolish to think that it can be overturned. It has already been challenged Constitutionally in the Supreme Court. It is a done deal. Now, we move from here.

I get such a kick when people state this.

So abortion should have remained illegal?
So slavery should have remained legal?
So gay marriage should have remained illegal?
So prohibition should have remained legal?

Progressives. (roll eyes)

So segregation should be repealed?
So slavery should be reinstated?
So gay marriage should be repealed?
So... etc, etc, etc.

The argument you are posing is a fallacy because the same could be made as the opposite with no real change to your premise.

Wrong. Supporting something because "the law is the law" is what I'm trying to point out. Countless times in history have laws been over-turned, repealed, changed, negated.

Accepting a law because it is a law is the fallacy.

edit on 11-10-2013 by beezzer because: (no reason given)

Well in this case it was a law that was voted in democratically no? So you are suggesting repealing a law that was voted in, correct me if I'm wrong.

As I said, it would be more in tune with my examples rather than the ones you posted.

Sure, why not. I don't care what exampless are presented.

Accepting the law simply because it is a law is akin to obeying whatever edict the government puts forth.

reply to post by BardingTheBard


I was being facetious. I would never condone violence but a bunch of our citizens are incensed. And these are crazy people. They believe anything you tell them. They are suckers. They only read crap from their "approved" sources. They are wacko crazy people. Nut cases.

That was the reason for the joke.

GrantedBail
Describe how we have been a hybrid socialist anything?? Hurry up. I am getting sleepy.

I will not hurry.

Social Security, Food Stamps, Medicare/Medicaid, Postal Service, Fire/Police departments, The FDA, Child Protective Services, Public Education, Minimum Wage, Nationalized roadways and public works projects, etc etc etc

GrantedBail
I was being facetious. I would never condone violence but a bunch of our citizens are incensed. And these are crazy people. They believe anything you tell them. They are suckers. They only read crap from their "approved" sources. They are wacko crazy people. Nut cases.

That was the reason for the joke.

Ahhh sorry... yeah I picked up on the joking of tying down. But I did feel the concept of even *going* to Capital Hill thinking there is anything useful to be done there was worth discussing. Sorry for the wet blanket.

reply to post by beezzer


OK Beezer. You go ahead and drive as fast as you can, slap the crap out of your kid's teacher, steal some steaks from the market, sneak into the movie theatre....in fact do whatever the heck you want.

Those are laws that are bs. Ignore them, and while you are at it, encourage others to do so.

Let's really feel anarchy and lawlessness. I am bored.

GrantedBail
reply to post by beezzer

 

OK Beezer. You go ahead and drive as fast as you can, slap the crap out of your kid's teacher, steal some steaks from the market, sneak into the movie theatre....in fact do whatever the heck you want.

Those are laws that are bs. Ignore them, and while you are at it, encourage others to do so.

Let's really feel anarchy and lawlessness. I am bored.

I know you're bored. You're also probably safe and secure.

You just aren't free.

But continue to hyperbole, it's fun to watch progressives practice word-yaga.

reply to post by BardingTheBard


I am so tired but I will just take the first one on your list. It is a pet peeve. Social Security?

Now I know you don't read, and have been completely brainwashed by people that do not have your best interest at heart.

Did you know that the government owes the SS fund trillions of dollars?? They have used the fund as a cash cow for decades. That you don't know this only lends to my suspicions of your limited sources of information.

September 1st, 2012 3:50 am EST - By Dave Manuel
US Government Has Borrowed Trillions From Social Security Trust Fund




inShare
3

Remember the debt ceiling situation in the summer of 2011?

Remember when President Obama said that the government may not have the money to send out social security checks if the debt ceiling wasn't raised? Here was his exact quote:

"If we default, we would not have enough money to pay all of our bills -- bills that include monthly Social Security checks, veterans' benefits and the government contracts we've signed with thousands of businesses."

Many people didn't really understand this quote - after all, doesn't the Social Security trust fund have TRILLIONS of dollars in it? Even if the US defaulted on its debt, couldn't the Social Security trust fund just ship out checks using the trillions of dollars that are surely safely nestled away in some account?

Let me hit you with this line that contained in the 2012 Social Security and Medicare Boards of Trustees report:

"Federal law requires that all excess funds be invested in interest-bearing securities backed by the full faith and credit of the United States. "

For Social Security, the OASI (Old-Age and Survivors Insurance) and Disability Insurance (DI) trust funds currently list trillions of dollars of assets. Here is the breakdown:

End of 2011 Assets:

OASI - $2.5241 trillion
DI - $153.9 billion

However, instead of cash, these two trust funds have IOUs from the US government. All of those assets are held in "special non-marketable securities of the US Government". So, the US government borrows from the OASI, DI and many others to finance its deficit spending.

But you have been convinced that SS is an "entitlement". Such horseradish. It is money that has been stolen from the middle class.

GrantedBail
But you have been convinced that SS is an "entitlement". Such horseradish. It is money that has been stolen from the middle class.

I didn't say it's an entitlement. Entitlement doesn't even have anything to *do* with socialism inherently. It's about the coordinated planning and cooperative ownership. That said... ALL entitlements are pretty much stolen from the middle class.

Now on to the program itself. It is a government organized program involved in the co-operative management of the economy. It is a system of distribution organised to directly satisfy economic demands and human needs... namely the economic demands and needs of the retired and unable to work.

I used those words on purpose, perhaps when you are more awake you can find them and see why I chose them.

Yes... the implementation of it is a scam, just as the "capitalism" in the US is *also* not "true" capitalism. But the program itself... as it was implemented, designed, and perceived by the population regarding what they *expected* it to do... is socialist in nature. Thus the hybrid commentary earlier.

Otherwise that money would be left to the individual to invest or save as they wish in the open market.

--------------

I do find it interesting that a couple of people in here seem to think there is even a hint of agreement on what exactly "socialism" is... when there are as many varieties of socialism as there are socialists.

GrantedBail
Now I know you don't read, and have been completely brainwashed by people that do not have your best interest at heart.

Yes, your concern is coming through loud and clear. Thank you so very much.

GrantedBail
Did you know that the government owes the SS fund trillions of dollars?? They have used the fund as a cash cow for decades.

I'm quite aware of that and I'm pretty sure we could dig through one of my 3 previous accounts here and find me saying exactly that. I can also go to the pages I was posting on in the late 90's and early 2000's informing people of that.

Just because the coffers have been robbed doesn't mean the program itself isn't socialist in structure.

GrantedBail
That you don't know this only lends to my suspicions of your limited sources of information.

That you assumed I didn't know it confirms my suspicion that you project a great deal from very scant information.

reply to post by BardingTheBard


That is exactly what they want. To take those funds and make "private accounts" and give it to their buddies on Wall Street. They haven't stolen everything yet. But you have much to look forward to because those bastages are going to get their hands on it and you will applaud.

People have worked their whole lives and had those monies taken from their checks in hopes that they would be able to retire with some kind of dignity. You know, like not having to eat cat food ect...

That is how the middle class saved for their retirement for decades. They have their homes and were counting on receiving the benefits which they paid into for forty years.

Pfffffft

GrantedBail
But you have much to look forward to because those bastages are going to get their hands on it and you will applaud.

Why on earth would you think I would applaud?

Libertarian here. I am forming my OWN savings for retirement despite having to forfeit a portion of my income to SS whether I want to or not. I have put zero expectations into ever utilizing SS and wish I could opt out.

GrantedBail
People have worked their whole lives and had those monies taken from their checks in hopes that they would be able to retire with some kind of dignity. You know, like not having to eat cat food ect...

That is how the middle class saved for their retirement for decades. They have their homes and were counting on receiving the benefits which they paid into for forty years.

Pfffffft

It's almost like... when people put their faith in the government to be responsible and take care of them... they keep getting screwed over.

SHOCKER@!!!!

reply to post by BardingTheBard




Ok, I am coming back to the argument now. I am very tired. I get what you are saying.

These programs are a form of social democracy within a capitalistic state. I will broach this in the morning

Good night.

GrantedBail
So what if it is Socialist??

Aside from my inability to opt out...nothing. You simply asked me what aspects of the US are socialist in nature and I listed some stuff with no commentary on their value. Some I actually like, some I don't.

GrantedBail
I get what you are saying.

These programs are a form of social democracy within a capitalistic state.

Spot on. /salute!

GrantedBail
I will broach this in the morning

Good night.

Adios! I don't actually have anything needing broaching on it. Even being libertarian, I'm not anti-socialist. I'm completely comfortable with nations and states choosing to be socialist. I will simply gravitate elsewhere when possible.

These days there isn't much of anywhere for me to gravitate to though so I'm left doing what I can and watching the worldwide show get more and more... interesting.