Iran passes ‘pedophilia’ law to let men marry adopted girls

Malynn
Only if you came in to the thread talking about how backwards and barbaric Michigan is. Which you know as well as I do will be repeated ad-nauseum in this thread about the middle east and or Islam.

I don't have issues with "Islam" I have issues with Children being married off before they possibly even have their first menstrual cycle as "Brides"

Night Star
At 13, they are still a child. This is just promoting sick behavior and is unacceptable.

By American standards and laws they are still children because that's what we decided.

I am not saying I agree with it or disagree with it but the fact is that other countries have their OWN beliefs that are not the same as ours.

Just because the USA makes a law or decides whats right for this country don't mean the rest of the world should have to follow it.

Even in this country back in the old days girls were married lots of times by the time they were 14 - 15.
Does that make those people pedophiles? No, because the times were different then and it was the way things were done.

And to be totally honest I have known 13-17 year old girls that were more mature than some of the 20 year old's I have dated....most aren't but some are. You can't always put an age on maturity.

Same with guys, I work with some 17 year old boys that have it together more than some of the 30 year old guys I work with.......

Good to see Iran / Islam is finally moving into the 10th century...

reply to post by mwood


AND what?

Does that mean we cant discuss, agree, disagree and or Critique it? There is an almost palpable feeling that anything that may put Iran in a bad light is automatically a call for all hands on deck in their defense.

Whats next, the "Invasion/Bombing" reference card?

reply to post by Malynn

Human beings are abused and subjugated in every culture.

I agree.

No less in ours than in theirs. Regardless of what laws are in place.

I disagree.

While the western nations do have a series of problems and are far from moral, comparing the US for example to Iran is disingenuous. Show me a country in the west that institutionalizes domestic abuse, or the execution of homosexuals.

And as others have pointed out in this very thread we've only decided in the last 50 - 100 years the "appropriate" age of marriage.

And why is that?

Do you not think it has anything to do with the fact that life expectancy, infant mortality rates, and deaths from childbirth were really really high before the advent of modern medicine? Oh and not to mention young women being used as sexual bargaining chips throughout all of history.

Yes it was a social norm in the past, but because of the above circumstances.

According to the rhetoric of our current, modern culture someone of that age wouldn't be mature enough to decide for themselves that they're ready for marriage. So does that make my grandpa a rapist or pedophile?

I bet your grandmother was not forced into the marriage either and probably lived in a country that if she was she would have the ability to seek authorities that would stop it.

And no I do no think that a thirteen year old is responsible enough or experienced enough to make these decisions. 16? Maybe, but I would not advise it.

Decision making and overall brain development is at its best between the ages of 20 and 25 making those years the ones where complex decisions such as marriage, career, etc can be most trusted.

Also, didn't Woody Allen marry his adopted daughter? She wasn't 13 but I'm pretty sure she was pretty young. He isn't ostracized and in jail. Last I heard he was still in the entertainment industry.

Well she was 19 or 20 when they married so I have to ask do you think the average 13 year old makes better life decisions than a 20 year old?

And again she was not "forced" to marry someone which many young women in the middle east are.

I think most topics are worthy of some kind of dialogue. The question being, is the dialogue worthy? When people posts topics like this on ATS they aren't interested in "addressing the issue" and fostering dialogue. They're interested in being judgemental, and getting their hate on of Islam or Muslims with other like-minded members. So in this instance, personally, I'd rather have silence.

This thread has been far from an islamaphobe hate thread.

We are debating the ethics of child marriage here, specifically child marriage in a patriarchal theocratic state where the rights of young women are put aside.

Do you disagree with this assessment?

If so why?

reply to post by Bisman


Well said, Bisman!

This age varies all over the world. Taking age of consent which is often the marriageable age as an example, it varies from 12 through to 18 or higher.

The Vatican has it at 12 as does Mexico and a few others. Europe is all over the place. The US back in 1995 had a range from 13 to 18.

Both men and women can procreate from 12 / 13 as mother nature and God intended. Strangely it is right wing anti fornication Christians the scream the loudest. The Hypocrisy is staggering. It is only some of the Western world that try to force a hiatus between 13 and 18.

As usual, it is the western world that tries to take the moral high ground because whatever they think is always the way the whole damn world should think.

The hypocrisy staggers the mind.

P

pheonix358
The hypocrisy staggers the mind.

So does the implied assumptive nature of your reply.

So you condone such marriages?

First, I want to say that I don't agree with the law. But that being said, having lived the past ten years in developing countries working in community development and this does not surprise me at all. There are a lot of differences that your average Western person does not know.

People routinely doctor birth certificates and other documents to marry under the legal age in most countries, to obtain work as well as factory workers or foreign maids, etc. If people really want to get married or skirt the laws that are in place they will find a way.

People are bought and sold daily in developing countries by locals, and nobody says a thing about it, it is often normal and culturally and socially acceptable to do so. Only when foreigners become involved does someone begin to blow the whistle. There is a large amount of domestic human trafficking that occurs internally in most countries that is not questioned by the local populace.

When people in developing countries get divorced they end up giving up their children to search for a new husband or wife. Often because the new spouse will not financially or otherwise support children from a previous marriage. Often, if men do marry a woman who already has children they will abuse them (males) until they are run off, and in the case of girls they are often molested and raped as they grow up. Often the mother will go along with or be powerless to do anything about it because she will need to rely so heavily on having a man in the family.

Based on my experience it is very rare that people in developing countries adopt children at all. Usually as stated above if it is not their child its not their problem. There isn't a large amount of truly "orphaned" children that are eligible for adoption running around in these places, because of the large structure of the families and the way in which relationships are formed. Rarely, if ever is there a case where a child in a developing country has absolutely no relatives, usually they know quite well where to find their family members, but are instead placed in foster care / orphanages for a better education, living conditions, etc.

It is normal for small children, some as young as 5 years old to pack around babies all day long, so yes, actually by 13 years old most girls have been exposed to child raising and childcare for a majority of their lives. There are probably young girls who are better prepared to raise children in developing countries when compared to adults in Western countries who find it necessary to read copious amounts to raise their own child. To us this seems to be the most irresponsible action possible, to leave your newborn baby with a child as its caretaker. Surprisingly in all the years I have seen this happen I have never seen any ill come of it.

Often family units are huge, we incorrectly assume that a man and his 13 / 14 year old wife would just move out into their own residence where he may have a free for all with his newly acquired wife. This would most likely not be the case as well, as most people in developing countries live with their extended family, we are talking 10+ family members under one roof, limiting the amount of private time that people would have. Also, there is a huge amount of support for women within these families, although it would vary from culture to culture. As some speculated that girls may be bound by family and cultural traditions to do as they are told, but we all seem to automatically jump to the 'worst case scenario.'

Everyone is giving Bisman a bit of crap over what he has said, and he does make some very valid points. It is only recently in human history that legislation has been drummed up to define what was previously naturally determined based on the maturity of girls both mentally and physically. It is likely communities would not allow people to marry unless the community thought they were prepared, however in extremely odd circumstances there are exceptions to every rule.

Neither support nor condone telling people who they should marry, and at what age.

The only thing we can hope is that common sense will prevail.

Tancred
First, I want to say that I don't agree with the law. But that being said, having lived the past ten years in developing countries working in community development and this does not surprise me at all. There are a lot of differences that your average Western person does not know.

Massive over population with children having children and no means of supporting them. Sounds like any inner city here in the US.

Based on my experience it is very rare that people in developing countries adopt children at all.

Source

SLAYER69

pheonix358
The hypocrisy staggers the mind.

So does the implied assumptive nature of your reply.

So you condone such marriages?

edit on 4-10-2013 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)

Marrying a relative is forbidden in many cultures to allow a better spread of the gene pool. How ancient cultures knew this is a subject for a thread on its own. An adoptive person has no such problems.

As for the age, I think it is a little young, 14 would be better but each to their own.

I am not silly enough to believe that MY WAY or OUR WAY is right for the rest of the world. Look to your own culture and its dark side first and clean that up before you go trying to tell the rest of the world how to live.

In Australia I have watched the odd current affairs program that shows child prostitution openly operating in US cities. Banned specials on DC pedophile rings is another such problem.

All through history young women have been married off to older men.

Fix up your own overgrown back yard before telling the rest of the world how to live.

Your tactic of inferring I condone this is both typical and hypocritical.

P

pheonix358
Your tactic of inferring I condone this is both typical and hypocritical.

I noticed you didn't answer my question and "hypocritical" seems to be your favored word for this evening.

Fix up your own overgrown back yard before telling the rest of the world how to live.

Sad, truly sad.

Another implied attempt to convey that I condone and or sanction "Changing" their way of life. I will however post an opinion on it. I'm allowed this just as you are allowed to post yours...
No?

Their whole culture revolves around preying on the weak with scare tactics, no wonder we want to bomb the # out of them!

reply to post by SLAYER69


Post away and I love other peoples opinions. You crack that I condone this however was unjustified. As you sow so shall you reap. If that is the best you have then you have little.

P

Hydrawolf
Their whole culture revolves around preying on the weak with scare tactics, no wonder we want to bomb the # out of them!

Propaganda nonsense. Waste of electrons!

P

beckybecky

Openeye
reply to post by xavi1000

 

Well this is messed up.

Though apparently child marriages are quite common in Iran

MEMRI

Many of these marriages are used as family dispute resolutions. Its like a George R. R. Martin novel over there.

Look this is ridiculous.why don't we invade iran?

we have thousands of tanks in irak and all we need to do is drive across the border and sort out this nest of vipers
and their evil nuclear intentions.

we must stop these peedos.

we must start preparing to sort out these terrorists and peedos and bad people.

we must show them the RIGHT WAY of civilsation.

edit on 4-10-2013 by beckybecky because: (no reason given)

--
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.....*Wipes tears*
I'll give you a star for the quickest solution to this situation. You'll make most generals proud! George Bush would give you a medal.
---
If Iran want's to marry its adopted 14 year old daughters, then by all means, its there country, let them.

Now, on the other hand, I DO NOT CONDONE THIS IN ANYWAY.
These children have yet to grow and learn life experiences to will help them in the world, once they are married, all they do is cook, clean and childbear.

Need I remind half you people that Iran has no woman rights.

But then again, if you guys really have a problem with it, we can always take "BeckyBecky's" route............





STAR.

Hydrawolf
Their whole culture revolves around preying on the weak with scare tactics, no wonder we want to bomb the # out of them!

This a thread about iran not the usa lol

reply to post by pheonix358


OK, Now that's your second reply to me yet you have not answered my question but rather more inclined to discuss everything else but.

It's ok, not everyone is willing to be open.

For the record, whether here in the States, Iran or Mars I'm against such marriages. It's my personal opinion from being a parent of two.

pheonix358
reply to post by Bisman

 

Well said, Bisman!

This age varies all over the world. Taking age of consent which is often the marriageable age as an example, it varies from 12 through to 18 or higher.

The Vatican has it at 12 as does Mexico and a few others. Europe is all over the place. The US back in 1995 had a range from 13 to 18.

Both men and women can procreate from 12 / 13 as mother nature and God intended. Strangely it is right wing anti fornication Christians the scream the loudest. The Hypocrisy is staggering. It is only some of the Western world that try to force a hiatus between 13 and 18.

As usual, it is the western world that tries to take the moral high ground because whatever they think is always the way the whole damn world should think.

The hypocrisy staggers the mind.

P

So if you were allowed to by law would you # and impregnate a fresh young little girl ripe for the picking on her birthday? Or maybe keep it behind closed doors?

That is so evil, youd think that theyd get that the age of marriage should be at least 15 years old like in utah

Hydrawolf

pheonix358
reply to post by Bisman

 

Well said, Bisman!

This age varies all over the world. Taking age of consent which is often the marriageable age as an example, it varies from 12 through to 18 or higher.

The Vatican has it at 12 as does Mexico and a few others. Europe is all over the place. The US back in 1995 had a range from 13 to 18.

Both men and women can procreate from 12 / 13 as mother nature and God intended. Strangely it is right wing anti fornication Christians the scream the loudest. The Hypocrisy is staggering. It is only some of the Western world that try to force a hiatus between 13 and 18.

As usual, it is the western world that tries to take the moral high ground because whatever they think is always the way the whole damn world should think.

The hypocrisy staggers the mind.

P

So if you were allowed to by law would you # and impregnate a fresh young little girl ripe for the picking on her birthday? Or maybe keep it behind closed doors?

Isint it againts policy to personaly attack people, seriously, you make me sick