Cops: Okla. Teens Killed Baseball Player 'for Fun'

Originally posted by Onslaught2996
Why did no one bring up the obvious reason?

The gun culture in America. The glorification of the gun..etc.

But the gun enthusiasts will say and do anything to avoid the obvious connection.

Three black guys gun down a white guy and you blame guns? I guess Obama wont be coming out to say if he had a son it would look like these three.

Originally posted by CB328

If everyone was allowed to make the choice to arm and defend themselves, thugs wouldn't feel so safe that they would be the only one's around with a weapon to do harm to another.

This is ridiculous- the guy was shot in the back. More weapons don't make society safer, just the opposite. If guns were rare gun crime would be rare too.

Once again a ridiculous response. Did you read what he typed?
If the criminals KNEW people could defend themselves they wouldnt be so inclined to just act out like this.

Originally posted by CB328

If everyone was allowed to make the choice to arm and defend themselves, thugs wouldn't feel so safe that they would be the only one's around with a weapon to do harm to another.

This is ridiculous- the guy was shot in the back. More weapons don't make society safer, just the opposite. If guns were rare gun crime would be rare too.

Yeah, but then we'd see knife crime. baseball bat crime, etc...

Its the mentality, not the gun.

Originally posted by DestroyDestroyDestroy

Originally posted by Freenrgy2

Sure it does. It's called justice. So what, you stick in them in a prison for life and the country forgets about them in a few months. Prisons are overcrowded and whose to say that, at some point, they decide to let these scumbags go. Of course, we all know how well prisons help rehabilitate their inmates to return to society, so I'm sure they would be fine upstanding citizens when they got out.

Again, BS!!

They need to line them up facing AWAY from their executioners and let the guards fire until they are dead. Oh yeah, lets make sure that they get the execution on TV so all the other little bastards can see what fate awaits them if they want to keep acting like uncivilized morons. These "kids" premeditated 1st degree murder (maybe more than one if you read one their FB posts). They should die and die quickly.

You're post is a prime example of modern savagery. Really? Justifying murder in the name of "justice?" Bringing ourselves down to that low of a level? Does killing these kids do anything to bring back the victim? The obvious answer is no. Answering violence with more violence accomplishes nothing other than ensuring the furtherance of a viscous cycle.

It serves as a strong deterrent to wanna be killers. Me, a modern savage? Hardly. Just interested in seeing repayment in kind for these kinds of heinous crimes. Sitting in a jail cell with their homies is hardly a fitting punishment. They're giving up what exactly sitting in that cell?

Nothing will bring back the victim. But, I'd rather they publicly show these three executed so maybe, just maybe, some of these kids would get shocked back into reality; that if you commit crimes like this, you die.

There is so much wrong with this story, that it's hard to know where to start. Guns, parenting, color, etc.

I think that, in the context of bored boys with violent tendencies, 'gun' could be replaced with 'rock,' 'baseball bat,' 'tree branch' or many other choices. The gun and car were both inexplicably available to the boys; so that's what was used.

As for color, there was a video showing a black boy with a gun. The police photos, however, seem to show an almost perfect spectrum of skin colors. These kids had something in common, other than their race, which they reveled in. I'm interested in where the behavior was modeled from.

At a small level, modeling occurs in the household, and is an important part of a child's education. If children are habituated to seeing their parents read in the evening, they're more likely to do the same than if the parents are, say, watching TV. Modelling also occurs in more abstract ways: how does one deal with problems? is time spent with constructive or destructive desires? All of these things have an impact, far more so than any words that the parents may speak to their children.

This goes bigger, though. Look at companies with good and bad energies. At one, the high level employees are engaged in some form of fraud (trying to get more for their product/service than it's worth), the low-level employees know the model is BS, but clock in and out to get their paycheck and try not to be noticed. Meanwhile the middle managers get the heart attacks: they have to translate corporate's unreasonable desires into actions by the low level employees. Compare that to, say, a company where the low level employees can get behind the corporate idea, and the managers act as facilitators instead of slave-drivers. Salesmen at the first type of company have incredibly stressful jobs, while the latter company's products seem to sell themselves.

I think it even goes for whole countries. Not to say that there won't be outliers in any context, but there is a strong relationship between the general behavior of citizens (the culture, so to speak) and the behavior of the country as a whole, and either one can be a driving force. We can look at obvious examples, such as the reflection of the warrior culture of Japan on the process of their surrender, but at this point, even the American examples are becoming obvious. As a country, we import on debt. We buy physical products, drugs, and petroleum, while exporting lots of bits, bytes, and 'license agreements.' When we don't get our way, it's lawyers, guns, and money until we do. We show our power through keeping secrets, breaking our word, and a particularly cruel and inhuman form of violence. To be clear, I'm talking about the US as a whole, in an international relations sense, but I don't see much there that can't be applied to many of its citizens.

Going back down in scope, we can look at bodies that the kids were part of. We can certainly agree that the family unit was likely at issue, but knowing next to nothing about the internal affairs of the family, we'll step back a notch, and ask what environment the families were surrounded in.

When I hear Oklahoma, I think about a number of things (based on many years of trips there). Oklahoma is home to Ft. Sill, one of the largest induction training facilities for the military, a connection which became apparent looking at one of the boys t-shirts. There is a large gun culture, and due to the (right wing) media, there is a growing (though false) connection being made in the minds of many between religious freedom and freedom to bear arms. Could the guns have been loose due to hubris of the parents, who thought that gun-safes were just an idea of the nanny-state, and that their child was too responsible to need that protection? Finally, I wonder what lack of empathy occurred in the childhood of they boys, that they themselves would exhibit so little of it? I was lucky to get a little pistol bite on my hand as a teenager. Seeing what just the slide could do to me, I could not imagine putting a living thing in front of the business end.

Our government, it's various organs, and our corporations all employ highly trained staff, who know how to use your psychology to get you to do things. Every time this is done, though, there is a side effect, which is often unpredictable. There are strong messages sent designed to create anxieties, fears, and uncertainties (which are of course 'solved' by the product). Meanwhile, and at nearly all levels of government, real leadership is disappearing. We aren't told what to do (but buy things), only what we can't do, and even then, the rules are enforced randomly and arbitrarily. We are told in our education system that it is best to become a leader, not a follower, but does this play out in life? I'd say many would love to be a follower to a great leader, but our 'leaders' are looking around, shaking their heads, and expecting 'democracy' to do all the work.

Originally posted by silo13
reply to post by Antipathy17

 

If you don’t believe it’s the lack of practicing Christianity that has the USA (humanity) in the mess it‘s in? How about telling us what you think the cause may be. That would be an interesting debate. You already know where I’m coming from. Have at it.

peace

It is easy to see, what is wrong. First you demand the death of three teenagers without any closer look at what happened and who of the three was involved how and then you preach that things like that happen because of the lack of Christianity.

A true Christian would not call for the death of the teenagers. This is wrong with your country.
You can't distinguish between good and bad anymore. So all outcome is bad.

Meditate on this for a while.

Originally posted by Siddharta

Originally posted by silo13
reply to post by Antipathy17

 

If you don’t believe it’s the lack of practicing Christianity that has the USA (humanity) in the mess it‘s in? How about telling us what you think the cause may be. That would be an interesting debate. You already know where I’m coming from. Have at it.

peace

It is easy to see, what is wrong. First you demand the death of three teenagers without any closer look at what happened and who of the three was involved how and then you preach that things like that happen because of the lack of Christianity.

A true Christian would not call for the death of the teenagers. This is wrong with your country.
You can't distinguish between good and bad anymore. So all outcome is bad.

Meditate on this for a while.

What closer look do you need? One admitted to pulling the trigger. Another thinks this is a big joke. Only the driver has actually shown any emotion to this. Maybe not all three should die, but the two charged with 1st degree murder should.

What would a 'true' Christian do? I can tell you what a 'true' Mulsim would do.

reply to post by Onslaught2996


Well, yes, there is rampant gun glorification in the Gangstah world. Those enthusiasts will hold on to their pieces, and their crotches, forever. However, gun owners generally hate what these Gangstahs are doing. The rampart proliferation of stolen or unlicensed handguns is a huge problem in this country. And it makes it very difficult for responsible and law abiding citizens who want to keep their guns. But rather than deal with the issue of illegal weapons in the hand of minors or criminals, the anti-gun people want ALL firearms taken away. That will not happen, because, like the Gangstahs, the gun owners will just hide their guns, or ignore the laws. And, they will fight this in the courts, and win. Already, people are defending these punks because they are minors who "live in a small town with nothing to do". Huh? Oh yeah, the BIG CITY is so much better.....

Originally posted by silo13

Cris Lane, a young Australian man who was in the US on a baseball scholarship is dead because three bored teenagers decided to kill somebody for fun. Police say a 17-year-old has confessed to the murder and two accomplices, ages 15 and 16, are also in custody.

link

The link goes on to say these murderers will be tried as adults but not face the death penalty.

WHY NOT! That's criminal. Absolutely criminal these pieces of waste will not face the needle. They should be eligible for the death penalty and that they‘re not - Chris Lane - brutally murdered did die in vain. Those murderers should by hung. Period.

My God where is all this hate coming from. I just don't get it. My mind is blown at this point. Or maybe that's my heart that's blown, I don't know. I just don't know.

peace

edit on 20-8-2013 by silo13 because: photo add

They'll be tortured and raped in prison... probably end up dying a slow painful death from AIDS. I think that's better punishment than a needle... just my personal opinion.

reply to post by Onslaught2996

The gun culture in America. The glorification of the gun..etc.

But the gun enthusiasts will say and do anything to avoid the obvious connection.

The "gun culture" as you put it emphasizes safety and responsibility.

The "thug culture" is what is to blame here. These kids should all get the death penalty. No rehab possibilities here. The moment they are out, they'll kill again and again until caught again.

Originally posted by Gazrok


The "thug culture" is what is to blame here. These kids should all get the death penalty. No rehab possibilities here. The moment they are out, they'll kill again and again until caught again.

Thug culture being to blame yes, killing all the kids for the misguidance that society provided them?

No.

I do not believe in the death penalty, the main reason I do not is because of the vast miscarriage of justice that pervades the US(and most other) legal system.

The fact in this is although all 3 went out to "kill someone" only one person pulled the trigger, one person is actually the murderer, 2 are accessories to murder.

Should they go to prison for life?

The murderer YES.
The accessories no.

They should at least be given a chance to show remorse and repent for their crime over a long jail sentence.

There is a recurring trend going on right now, it essentially boils down to a lack of direction or good moral guidance, there is a lack of ambition, kids without ambition, feeling like failures in a f$%ked up world where they have no place to succeed, succumb to the base animal instincts within all of us that are manipulated by a mass media of movies, tv, games, music, "news", gossip, celebrity, "Do what thou wilt", survival of the fittest, material wealth being the definition of success, the glorification of criminal activity, material wealth being the definition of success, that fear equals respect, material wealth being the definition of success, to get the girls and get that money, greed is good, MATERIAL WEALTH BEING THE DEFINITION OF SUCCESS.

This is in no way a gun control debate, its the collective mentality of our "civilized" society that needs to be debated.

I've not had time to read through all of the posts but I am from Duncan, OK. My sister-in-law lives in the apartment complex where these children lived / hung out . . worst part of town by far.

James Edwards Jr. or Buggs as he calls himself attempted to fight my brother-in-law a few months back stating "we don't like white crackers around here" . . My brother-in-law is 27 yrs old and is above all that so nothing ever happened. I spoke with an old high school friend yesterday and she claims this same guy appx 2 weeks ago was threatening to break into her house and kidnap one of her children. The police said they couldn't do anything unless they acted upon the threats . . I don't know the details on that but from what I hear he is worthless. A year ago he was into all sorts of sports and even coaching young children in wrestling but I believe his mother died and his dad didn't step up so this is the path he has taken.

I don't know any background on the other two.

I don't know if it was racially motivated but I do know "Buggs" had a chip on his shoulder.
From what I understand, one was full black, one was half white/half black and the driver was white so I honestly don't think this was racially motivated.

All I know is that I feel more comfortable allowing my wife to visit her sister at those apartments although there are still some real bad people there =(

As for the death penalty, I believe it is off the table as they are all minors and even if tried as adults, they would not qualify for the death penalty.

reply to post by sepium


Australian teen admits Indian student murder

Like i said before, The same thing happens in australia so get over yourself.

Originally posted by OneManArmy

Originally posted by Gazrok


The "thug culture" is what is to blame here. These kids should all get the death penalty. No rehab possibilities here. The moment they are out, they'll kill again and again until caught again.

Thug culture being to blame yes, killing all the kids for the misguidance that society provided them?

No.

I do not believe in the death penalty, the main reason I do not is because of the vast miscarriage of justice that pervades the US(and most other) legal system.

The fact in this is although all 3 went out to "kill someone" only one person pulled the trigger, one person is actually the murderer, 2 are accessories to murder.

Should they go to prison for life?

The murderer YES.
The accessories no.

They should at least be given a chance to show remorse and repent for their crime over a long jail sentence.

There is a recurring trend going on right now, it essentially boils down to a lack of direction or good moral guidance, there is a lack of ambition, kids without ambition, feeling like failures in a f$%ked up world where they have no place to succeed, succumb to the base animal instincts within all of us that are manipulated by a mass media of movies, tv, games, music, "news", gossip, celebrity, "Do what thou wilt", survival of the fittest, material wealth being the definition of success, the glorification of criminal activity, material wealth being the definition of success, that fear equals respect, material wealth being the definition of success, to get the girls and get that money, greed is good, MATERIAL WEALTH BEING THE DEFINITION OF SUCCESS.

This is in no way a gun control debate, its the collective mentality of our "civilized" society that needs to be debated.

I couldn't disagree more. "Kids?" Stop it. I bet they've been exposed to more adult things at their age than I was at 15. Only one even comes close to showing remorse. I don't want to give them time in jail to think about it. They THOUGHT about what they were going to do and did it. The victim was just a target, some play thing for them to get some sick pleasure out of killing. This is a tremendously evil act and should be dealt with with the most effective punishment....DEATH.

It's time that society started sending a message to these little bastards that this type of behavior will not be tolerated. No lengthy drawn out trial or appeals. Go before the judge and be sentenced immediately.

reply to post by lurker007


Hey Lurker, good to see you.

I'm guessing the apartment complex you speak of is Elm Terrace? That place is scary. Neither I nor mr. Dustbowl will set foot there.

I don't know if you have children I'd Duncan schools, but when I dropped my son off this morning to his elementary school, the school was locked down and they had undercover police officers there. The kids didn't get to play outside at all today either. Why? Well, from what the school explained to me was that some of these suspects' family have threatened to "shoot up a school" over this.

These family members making this threat of shooting innocent children tell me everything I need to know about why these young men engaged in senseless killing in the first place; sounds to me like its a family pastime with these little thugs.

How dare these people scare our kids and threaten to shoot them simply for trying to go to school.

Originally posted by CatherineWheel
I'm counting on the next meteor flying over the US. In Islamic countries they don't play around with rapists and murderers. They execute them in public.

They also execute women for no good reason other than not behaving properly!