Bushmaster or S&W?

Next week im going to put some money down on one of these rifles, the Bushmaster Carbon 15 or the S&W M&P 15.
I was just wondering if anyone here has had any experience with one or both of these rifles?
I realize theyre pretty much identical in physical appearance, what im talking about though, is reliability.
I will tell you in advance that I am heavily leaning toward the S&W, since ive owned their pistols before and they have built up some trust with me.
Any input is helpful though.


S&W


Bushmaster

reply to post by Sharingan


I've owned both, but for the money the Bushmaster is the better choice. They have been making AR 15's a lot longer than S. W.

i have a friend who has a bushmaster, it jams all the time.
the jam happens during ejection. he called bushmaster, and they said to keep on firing it that it needs to build up carbon in the tubes. it didn't sound right to me, but that's what he said they told him.

my ak has never jammed once.

reply to post by hounddoghowlie


Yeah but your AK can't hit a target at 500 meters. The secret to any AR platform is to clean it properly. I'm an ex Marine and never had cared for AK's, they are dependable because they are built loose.

reply to post by hounddoghowlie


Yeah that sounds weird, the carbon buildup hinders the parts movement. Maybe they just meant it needed to be broken in 500-1000 rounds.

My SKS never jams either.....got to love the mud guns.

Ive owned an SKS before, many years ago and it was one of the most accurate rifles ive ever shot, couldnt beat it for 100 bucks.
I was never able to test its accuracy above 100 yards though, the area just wasnt large enough to be safe at higher ranges.
Anyway, I just dont want an AK or another SKS. Ive thought about this for some time and its going to be one of the rifles i listed in the OP.

Originally posted by slednecktx
reply to post by hounddoghowlie

 

Yeah but your AK can't hit a target at 500 meters. The secret to any AR platform is to clean it properly. I'm an ex Marine and never had cared for AK's, they are dependable because they are built loose.

wanta bet, some people may not be able to keep a real tight group. but you can get effective kill shots.

reply to post by slednecktx


There is a different tool for every job, that's why you have snipers and riflemen and support. But i dont have to tell you this.
My dad served in Vietnam in the marines and he rubbed off on me with the history channel and war stories as a kid. Taught me how to shoot when i was around 7...on an SKS.

I seem to have forgotten what my point was now

reply to post by shaneslaughta


My dad also, he was Army though he hated the M16 he kept his M14. He taught me how to shoot with an old SKS. Don't get me wrong I have an AK but I prefer all my ARs

reply to post by slednecktx


I see your a fan of driving nails rather then spray/burst and pray method. There usually isn't a problem with bushy if the gun has been out a few years. If its a newer design your mileage may vary. Its all personal preference between platforms. The simplicity of the Russian style guns are perfect to store away for god knows what may happen in the future. I like AR too, its just harder to afford the ar ammo. God forbid you have an exotic caliber like the 6.8. 7.62x39 in cheap steel case. Long live the wolf.

reply to post by Sharingan


Truth be told, you should be fine going either way. Go down to a shop with a range and test them both....if you can.
They are both good arms company, but i would recommend a model with adjustable gas system if you go piston.

That model bushy also has the pencil barrel...not good for mag dumps. You will get some stringing when that barrel gets hot.

Bushmaster make sub-par rifles in this price range. This is my experience.

The S&W M&P 15 is a great rifle.

reply to post by TinkerHaus


Yea, thats what Im pretty much in favor of getting, there is no price difference so thats not an issue.
They are both 699.00

reply to post by Sharingan


I work daily with almost any brand of AR you have heard of on the civi market and here is my take on these two:

Bushmaster Carbon 15: all other negative features aside (pencil barrel, poly receiver, etc) it does not allow you to mount any forward sight options, and when it comes time to upgrade or modify your options are limited because of a special thread pitch used on the upper to prevent other handguards/rails to be mounted. These two features are a deal breaker to me because without iron sights you are limited to only what optic you mount, and while a quality optic isnt likely to fail..its still really limited in options and can get pricey running quality optics for close range (red dot styles) or longer range (traditional scopes) so factor in those costs if you feel the bushmaster is your best choice.

Smith and Wesson M&P15: you didnt mention what specific model..so its hard to say. But in general they make a really solid rifle in the price range of the two rifle makes/models you asked about. Bare bones basic and lowest price point with S&W AR rifles would be the "Sport" Model. This isnt a bad starter rifle for plinking, but it features a non-chrome lined barrel, and no fwd assist or dust cover. Ask yourself if you need those features, and if you like having a fixed front sight post. I would suggest jumping up the model lineup a bit to the M&P OR (Optic Ready) rifle. This is a standard AR with normal upper, dust cover/fwd assist but instead of a front sight post, you get a pinned on railed gas block. I have removed these on a few rifles and hands down close to being the hardest taper pin to remove in the business (compared to military and civi colt rifles, spikes tactical, BCM, ETC...) so no worries of damaging that gas block; and it is same height as the upper so any rail mounted front/rear sight combo will work just fine (as long as it is a metal sight up front..that gas block gets hot and you can damage a poly or plastic sight quickly) I would suggest Troy Folding Battle Sights for quality folding sights, or any number of fixed or folding sights on the market (samson MFG, KAC, troy, new metal magpul sights coming out soon..Daniel defense, LMT, etc)

hopefully some ideas to consider, I dont want to ramble to much more, so please feel free to ask any further questions.

reply to post by Sharingan


I have a few of these 80%ers for sale if anyone is interested.
send me a u2u
$110 all day long, free shipping in the USofA

reply to post by ljcsponger87


Thats exactly the comparisons that I was looking for, thank you.

Originally posted by shaneslaughta
reply to post by hounddoghowlie

 

Yeah that sounds weird, the carbon buildup hinders the parts movement. Maybe they just meant it needed to be broken in 500-1000 rounds.

My SKS never jams either.....got to love the mud guns.

edit on 10-8-2013 by shaneslaughta because: (no reason given)

i should have been more clear, he said they told him that a gas leak more than normal, where the tube goes into the front site. after the carbon builds up it seals the leak to a point. they also told him if he ever removed the tube it would probably happen again and he would like you said have to fire off 500 to 1000 rounds.

reply to post by hounddoghowlie


Yes that sounds pretty accurate: loose fitting gasblock or gastube dumping to much pressure before the cycle is complete: usually meaning short stroking or ejection issues. Shooting more ammo will allow some carbon to build up and seal the leaks.

I have gotten plenty of bushmasters that were not cycling cheap ammo (steel case wolf for example) and doing the "Crane O-Ring Mod" is usually a good fix. That mod is a new extractor spring, black insert, and oring. That gives it a bit more bite to grab the lip of the casing.

Also shooting a bunch of steel ammo will allow extra carbon build up in the chamber since steel casing won't expand same as brass (brass expands into chamber wall blocking carbon build up) so if you shoot a bunch of steel quickly and while the chamber is hot switch to cheaper brass you might find yourself ripping the casing lip off or stuck cases from the brass expansion into a now carbon caked hot chamber.

reply to post by Sharingan


Glad I could help.

Any set price range you are looking for? And also more importantly any specific usage this rifle will see? That could matter as far as which is best option.

A lot of people have said after buying a bad rifle then a good one: "buy once - cry once"
It's better to save up for what you really want then to settle for a cheaper product just to replace it later or to upgrade it to the point of spending more then total price of better model.

reply to post by ljcsponger87


I dont know maybe 800 to 1k, im going to pay it off over a couple of months so I dont take to big a hit initially.
As far as its use, mostly for sport/ target shooting, I dont hunt anymore, not ruling it out in the future but doubtful.
It could double as home defense but there are really never any break ins around here and if it did happen, id probably grab my glock 22 first.
So the only other thing that I would definately need it, is for a zombie apocalypse