Bushmaster or S&W?

reply to post by Sharingan


Not sure what your local shops charge- but in that range and staying with brands you listed: the optic ready smith & Wesson is best bang for buck. Big reason compared to sport model is more sight options- meaning not stuck with a fixed front sight post (that's a really personal preference thing... It won't fail but it doesn't fold out of way) and chrome lined barrel. The dust cover and fwd assist are also nice to have.
Maybe the tactical model M&P15 but no clue what they are going for these days but I could check for you.

Factor about 200 bucks for quality folding sight set, and you need magazines. We could talk for pages on just the mags: but best quality and consistency of manufacturing is the Magpul PMAG. Never had one fail me since getting them when they were just getting popular. I also have had some fully loaded with the included cover in place and tried them years later with no issues.
Quality GI mags are fine: but you gotta know your getting legit ones and not cheap crap.

Also note: the M&P15 Sport is a great plinker and range gun for the price. If you want to go with the sport model I suggest finding the "M&P15 Sport Magpul MOE Edition" it's only a little more and has a much nicer grip and handguard.

And the cash you save with the sport model allows you to get more ammo and mags. Upgrade wise I would save up for a quality trigger - Giessele or Timney come to mind. Hit me up for options on that side of things.. I have installed and shot pretty much every upgraded trigger on the market- that actually goes for most rails, grips, stocks, sights ETC. please feel free to ask away on here or a U2U

(Without getting into specifics I am an armorer and have a long list of certifications on plenty of really awesome weapon systems and have trained at top facilities and love to share and knowledge I picked up along the way- and I always learn new things every day so please if I say something not correct I want to know- thanks everyone)

reply to post by ljcsponger87


Ahh, information overload
Basically what youre saying is with the Sport, I cant put a scope on it but with the OR I can scope it or use iron sights?
Personally, I would like the option of both. I really like iron sight shooting for the challenge and then scope shooting for even more precision at longer distances.
Thanks again for your and everyone elses ideas and opinions.

reply to post by Sharingan


The carbon build up is for the gas tube which may have a slight leak at the front barrel hole (gas block) which lets just enough gas leak to stop reliable cycling. Clean and oil with Break Free -CLP everything else. If you inspect the gas block area sometimes if the leak is bad enough or the gas bock is slightly loose you can see streaking under the right light...Simple to fix tighten the gas block...

Myself I would not want a carbon AR in anything chambered above .22 ..... I do have two carbon lowers on two ARs and have shot both lowers on 5.56 and 762x39 uppers.... however I did not like the balance of either with the carbon lowers.....Personal preference and I do own ARs AKs, SKSs...If you do a google search about problems with either one you will bring up gun boards that have comments both good and bad about the weapons...The High Road (THR) and AR-15.com are both biggies with operators of many different flavors

Are you going to be working the rifle hard or just the occasional plink, hunt, or home defense? It makes a difference. Competition and 1000 rounds a weekend verses 1000 rounds a year is a big deal when choosing a firearm.

P.S. These guys are quick!!!!! I read the first few post and come back and there are two pages with good info!!!

reply to post by Sharingan


You got it. That's it.

Scopes that are over 3x magnification with a front sight post work just fine since you can't see the post after 3x. For a carbine that has general usage and defense as a possible option I would go with a red dot (eotech or aimpoint come to mind) and they are easier for most people with folding sights (OR model) but can be "cowitnessed" with fixed iron sights (sport model) so basically that means the iron sights are lined up with the red dot.

Another advantage of a good optic like the ones mentioned is a new shooter you are showing things to on the range will quickly pick up the "put red dot on what u want a hole in and pull the trigger" but for any person that is learning from the ground up should always learn on irons then progress to optics... Irons don't run out of batteries or get smashed haha.

Ok ill stop the info overload. Hopefully I haven't caused more questions/confusion then narrowing things down for your purchase.

i would like to add that for home defense, i think you would be better off with a 12ga.or better yet a 20ga.
i have a sweet Mossbreg 500 Persuader, 20 ga, got it cheap, from a bud that got a 590A1.

i like the 20ga better because it don't kick as hard as the 12ga. and will knock down most anything up close which is what home defense will likely be.

if you get one go with a full stock or tactical stock. pistol grips or what i call rat shooters are hard to control.
i like a full stock myself.

reply to post by hounddoghowlie


Oh, i know, those are fine shotguns.. In fact, this is whats going to complete my trifecta of weapon purchases. Pistol, Glock 22, Rifle- AR 15 and Shotgun, mossberg 590
Ever since I started watching The Walking Dead, ive wanted shanes shotty

reply to post by ljcsponger87


Hell had to go play some golf its 8:45 in east Texas its still 87.I wasn't paying attention, the carbon 15 was that company out of Arizona
that made their uppers out of the same material block does. I hated that rifle it would never cycle right. Get a regular bushmaster.

reply to post by hounddoghowlie


I second that: 5.56 for home defense is usually best left to a last resort due to the danger involved with the bullets going thru more walls then a shotgun usually would.

Also second the stock over pistol grip. It's very hard to control a shotgun with just a pistol grip, and would require extensive training/ practice to be efficient. Really no reason to go that route vs a traditional stock or a combo pistol grip with stock option. Heck: you even can get an adapter from MESA Tactical to attach a regular AR stock assembly and AR pistol grip. That's a nice choice but really not needed

Originally posted by Sharingan
reply to post by hounddoghowlie

 

Oh, i know, those are fine shotguns.. In fact, this is whats going to complete my trifecta of weapon purchases. Pistol, Glock 22, Rifle- AR 15 and Shotgun, mossberg 590
Ever since I started watching The Walking Dead, ive wanted shanes shotty

to bad they made shane turn out to be a whack job.
i wonder why they keep killing off all the good characters.

I have the M&P and it is a good quality rifle.
You will find that the matte finish on the metal parts has a good sandpaper like feel and is easy to hold with mud, moisture ,oil.The finish is on the interior of the upper and lower receivers and is also on the entrance to the chamber. The two U shaped guide grooves at the bottom of the chamber may have enough friction to prevent smooth feeding. Mine had this issue but a few minutes with an emery cloth took care of it.
Otherwise it is a very good rifle. I carried and used several models of M-16 over 10 years and am very happy with the M&P.

It has a picatinny rail with attachable handle that has the elevation adjustable A2 style rear sight. The front sight is the old style and is not foldable but I purchased it that way specifically because it is extremely durable and I have no intention of using optics.

This rifle fits my training and experience. It's old style handle and front sight are familiar to me so will be the most useful in a stressful or emergency situation. It limits the use of long range optics unless you raise the scope but I have other firearms for those purposes.

The best rifle is the one you are most comfortable and accurate with. If you aren't either of those then get the best quality you can buy and practice like your life depends on it.

Either way, I think both are good rifles. Just make sure you have enough money to buy ammo and get plenty of range time.

reply to post by 727Sky

however I did not like the balance of either with the carbon lowers.

You know... I felt the same way about the Glock, it was very hard to get used to, just didnt feel right in my hand, even fully loaded, it felt off balance.
I was beginning starting to get used to it though but I havent been able to get out to the range in a while to see how it feels now.

Im just a casual shooter, nothing major, id be very lucky to shoot 500 rounds a year, much less 1000.

reply to post by Sharingan


I love my Glock 21 45 gen 4. But i dont like that feel in an AR. I had one of those carbon 15 from lake havosk or how ever you spell it . The firing pin broke after 75 rounds. This was supposed to be a oil less upper. I can't believe Bushmaster bought them out.By the way this is my first post

reply to post by slednecktx


Its not how many guns you own,its how much ammo you have.it used to be one shot one kill.Now its one shot 2 bucks

Originally posted by Sharingan
reply to post by hounddoghowlie

 

Oh, i know, those are fine shotguns.. In fact, this is whats going to complete my trifecta of weapon purchases. Pistol, Glock 22, Rifle- AR 15 and Shotgun, mossberg 590
Ever since I started watching The Walking Dead, ive wanted shanes shotty

It's a lot like mine, was a 50535 when I got it. Now it has a side saddle and heat shield, but haven't taken a recent pic.

i.imgur.com...

If you do go with a mossy 500 12g, do yourself a favor and pick up a Blackhawk Knoxx SpecOps stock. You can shoot 00 buck all day and not feel a thing.

Originally posted by slednecktx
I've owned both, but for the money the Bushmaster is the better choice.

I couldn't disagree more. S&W has a much much better warranty and is the same quality. Everyone "knows" bushmaster guns because of the mass shootings but since bushmaster sold its company I believe it was to Remington their quality has gone down the crapper. I've said it in other threads but Rock River and Daniel Defense are the best makers on the market imo. POF is great but expensive but don't buy a new Bushmaster. If you get one that was made before they sold out you'll get a good gun. If you get one made recently, you'll get a mass produced, bare minimum quality rifle from a company with the worst customer service and warranty in the market. I know half a dozen people with bushmaster rifles with legitimate warranty claims that have been ignored or told they don't cover that. Like the piston system on a $1800 dollar rifle breaking in half, they subcontracted the manufacture of the piston system and don't carry those parts so it's not covered.

reply to post by Sharingan


If you're going for the S&W, that's a great choice. If I ever do get around to getting an AR, the S&W AR's will be probably number 2 on my list.

If you're going for the Bushmaster, I would hesitate a bit. I hear they haven't really been keeping their quality up the past few years. Go for a Windham Weaponry AR instead.

The folks at Windham were the original makers of the Bushmaster AR's until the Freedom Group bought out Bushmaster and changed things around. (The founder and owner of Windham also was the founder and owner of the original Bushmasters to). Some history about Windham.

www.pressherald.com...

WINDHAM — The former owner of Bushmaster Firearms International LLC and other investors have created a new rifle company in the former Bushmaster manufacturing plant in Windham.

"A group of investors felt there was a great opportunity for a new company when Bushmaster Firearms International LLC decided to relocate the company to another state and lay off all its employees. These employees in many cases have 25 years of experience in making one of the finest rifles in the world," said the release.

The investor group is led by Richard Dyke, who founded Bushmaster and sold the company to New York City-based private equity firm Cerberus Capital Management in April 2006 for an undisclosed sum.

Freedom Group basically left all the original Bushmaster employees out to dry after they bought the company.

Freedom Group announced in December that it would close the Bushmaster plant in March. Bushmaster employed 73 workers

Freedom Group said it would retain the Bushmaster brand but move the manufacturing of products now made in Windham to other facilities.

If you want a Bushmaster, buy one that's a few years old, or get a new Windham.

*Some more info on Windham from Military Arms Channel on youtube

The only AR's I'm familiar with are the Colt models. I used to own a Colt AR-15 A1 for many years and when the AR-15 A2 came out I traded the A1 in for a Colt AR-15 A2 Sporter II.

I have never had a problem with the Colt AR's that I have used. In all the years of shooting both the AR-15 A1 and A2 neither weapon has ever jammed on me or failed to eject a spent round properly.

I should also add that I have shot .223 ammo and 5.56 NATO ammo through the AR-15 A2 interchangeably and in great numbers, depending on which ammo was in stock at local stores, and never had a problem.

I have shot match-grade ammunition and the cheap, smoking Russian made ammunition. The only problem with the Russian ammunition is that it dirties the weapon faster. Having said that, even with a dirty weapon, the Colt AR-15 still continues to perform.

I suppose there would be a time when enough carbon or dirt or residue could build up in the weapon to make it fail to work properly but after shooting mine relentlessly for many years I have not found that point.

I understand that Colt no longer makes the Civilian version of the AR-15 and that you only asked about the Bushmaster and S&W but there are many Colt AR's still for sell in the marketplace and I don't believe you could find a better weapon in the AR style.

Colt is very much in business. I would skip all the bushmaster / S&W debate and get a colt 6920 and be done with it. But that might be past the OP's price range. Also colt have been sold out at a lot of places.

reply to post by ljcsponger87


Ahh. My bad then. I thought they had gotten out of the civilian AR market. If that is not the case then Colt is the only way to go IMHO.

reply to post by Sharingan


I wouldn't choose the Carbon 15 over any aluminum receiver. The composite receiver is a lot less durable. In this case, go with the S&W. It's a perfectly fine gun for the money and you'll get many years out of it.