Muhammad never preformed a single miracle his entire life

Originally posted by mekhanics
The universe is finely tuned and it obeys the law of physics. We humans lost the plot.

Good point!

Mutuality is key, within the context of the brotherhood of man.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


You are right some Prophets didn't "displayed" any supernatural abilities, but they claimed to have conversations with supernatural beings like God or Gods (when applied).

Or that Gods or God guided them personally or choose them.

Also in ancient times people conquering was total annihilation of the enemy, no mystery there is in history.

Is any of this really even relevant to any of us?

I am not Muslim, don't care a bit about Islam, do not think that it is at all conducive to reaching Enlightenment (other than Sufism), and just like Judaism, believe it's an ancient irrelevant remnant that should just go away!!!!

On the other hand, I do believe Enlightened Beings exist an can perform miracles, but they are stashed away in caves in Tibet, or Mountain Hermits, or Monks in Monasteries all over the world.......

Originally posted by LABTECH767

I think before you try to say any form of a paedophile tolerant woman hating religion (See the UM KIRFA and AISHA before you say I am wrong here) is half decent need to read the Koran,. I do not pass such judgement upon it's followers as they interpret that religion on an individual basis though in an indoctrinated and regimented fashion.

What? Like the catholic church?
Those in glass houses shouldnt throw stones. Christianity is misogynistic, many of its priests are paedophiles and its leadership covered it up for decades.
The irish catholic work houses and laundries that tortured and worked "wayward" young girls to their deaths.
Catholicism is all heart.

Originally posted by marg6043


You are right some Prophets didn't "displayed" any supernatural abilities, but they claimed to have conversations with supernatural beings like God or Gods (when applied).

Nowadays we call those people schizophrenic and spiritualists, not prophets.
I see many a religious zealot claim to hear the voice of god. Even GW Bush used god as a justification to go to Iraq.
The sad thing is, people bought it.

Originally posted by OneManArmy

Originally posted by LABTECH767

I think before you try to say any form of a paedophile tolerant woman hating religion (See the UM KIRFA and AISHA before you say I am wrong here) is half decent need to read the Koran,. I do not pass such judgement upon it's followers as they interpret that religion on an individual basis though in an indoctrinated and regimented fashion.

What? Like the catholic church?
Those in glass houses shouldnt throw stones. Christianity is misogynistic, many of its priests are paedophiles and its leadership covered it up for decades.
The irish catholic work houses and laundries that tortured and worked "wayward" young girls to their deaths.
Catholicism is all heart.

The primary difference is that the Christian doctrine would never allow such but I wasn't throwing stone's I was hurling a great big sword called the truth and yes it cuts both way's but I am willing to accept the cut's are they.
by the way not all Christians are a single denomination though the Catholic are the largest but I hate to divide my gods house on earth.
I am not going to get into a debate that leads totally off topic, this was about Muhammad not working miracles and I believe he could not as he was a false prophet and a blasphemer whom was trying to make out Yahweh's ancient enemy the El or Allah was Yahweh but Christ said a house divided can not stand so since he was at war with El the high god of the Canaanite pantheon he can not be one and the same can he.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by LUXUS

 

Answer my previous question.

Several Old Testament prophets did NOT display any supernatural abilities.... and they are still regarded as legitimate prophets. How do you explain that?

Or are you implying that they were all false prophets?

I answered your question already, just you are not happy with it, you can judge them by their fruits, if they have no fruits then they are not what they claim or what others claim about them...including modern saints who have preformed zero miracles.

Truth is humans have not preformed miracles for a long time because there is a science behind it and that is lost to the modern world!

reply to post by LUXUS


Well what is a prophet, a prophet is someone whom foretells the future or can see the future and a good prophet is someone whom tries to change it for the better, biblical prophets fall under the sub heading of warning of the future and guiding the people to whom they have been sent or from whom they have been supernaturally chosen to the best future.
The working of miracles is not prophetic and in the old testament only came about as god willed though the bible points out the false prophet (A wolf in sheep's clothing whom leads to death and damnation) and point's out that since the devil is a fallen angel with the powers of an angel he can work miracles to a lesser degree but work them nevertheless also.
Christ told us that faith itself or WE can also do so as faith can move mountains but such an act would therefore not be an act of god but an act of reality manipulation through manifest projection of strong belief and absolute faith (which he tells us time and again we have too little of).

reply to post by LABTECH767


And yet nobody has moved a mountain since he said that, is it that we are all faithless, mentally defective ?

A prophet is someone whos mind is not like the mind of an ordinary person. A way of thinking about it would be this, imagine we all see in black and white yet there have been special persons born who could see in color. They describe to us a world we have not seen, they give us knowledge from places we cant reach.

All real prophets know about the gift of life and where it comes from, they know that every person is like the sparks of the sun, in every thing they see the creators light....they do not kill, they know its a sin!

Originally posted by LABTECH767

by the way not all Christians are a single denomination though the Catholic are the largest but I hate to divide my gods house on earth.

And while you claim not to do that , you do just that.
You are aware that Judaism and Christianity and Islam are all Abrahamic religions.
Meaning that they all share the exact same god. They all share the same house, but ignorant people create division and hatred where there should be none.
As for christians not doing such horrible acts, i suggest you study a little history.
Some of the most horrible tools of torture and murder were invented by Christians during the inquisition.
Ever seen "The Pit and The Pendulum"?

Originally posted by Okeyd57

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by buster2010
You can of course prove these other prophets performed miracles. I mean hard evidence not some story in a book.

Invent a time machine. Otherwise all you have is faith.

Faith is all it takes.

Unless you have believed in lies. Wouldn't be the first time in history that happened.

reply to post by OneManArmy


Wrong they claim story's about Abraham that never appeared in the old testament, the Torah or the Septuagint (even the Ethiopian orthodox church has no record and that black African church preserved the story of Enoch and the blond angels as well as many other texts that were lost after Constantine and his mother Helena had many of those texts rejected from orthodox cannon and belief even the Assyriac orthodox church has non of these texts but being behind Islamic lines well they are in the middle of the mine field are they not) and Islam only arose in the 6th to 7th century AD out of pagan religion but Muhammad was aware of Christianity, Judaism, Zoroastrianism, Buddhism and Hinduism as well as the many local religions of the region, he was a salesman in modern terms whom worked for a import export business and knew his clients and there beliefs, He understood there traditions and being so acutely aware of so many other religions he was something of a prodigy whom married the elderly widow whom owned the business and took it over before being exiled from Mecca and associating with outlaw's whom were his first bloodthirsty convert's.
Sometime a miracle is not needed but a persuasive personality like Adolf Hitler or Mussolini can sway there audience into great acts of evil and barbarism and when they win they of course regard themselves as having been right all along.
All organised theocracy's have been guilty of some acts of evil except perhaps the Buddhists but Christianity if practised as read would have been quite unlike Islam were rape is accepted as well as marriage to child brides and slavery - before you say the obvious Christianity is taught in the new testament along with the proper interpretation of the old not the misinterpretation of the old.

Originally posted by LABTECH767
reply to post by OneManArmy

 

Wrong they claim story's about Abraham that never appeared in the old testament, the Torah or the Septuagint (even the Ethiopian orthodox church has no record and that black African church preserved the story of Enoch and the blond angels) and Islam only arose in the 6th to 7th century AD out of pagan religion but Muhammad was aware of Christianity, Judaism, Zoroastrianism, Buddhism and Hinduism as well as the many local religions of the region, he was a salesman in modern terms whom worked for a import export business and knew his clients and there beliefs, He understood there traditions and being so acutely aware of so many other religions he was something of a prodigy whom married the elderly widow whom owned the business and took it over before being exiled from Mecca and associating with outlaw's whom were his first bloodthirsty convert's.
Sometime a miracle is not needed but a persuasive personality like Adolf Hitler or Mussolini can sway there audience into great acts of evil and barbarism and when they win they of course regard themselves as having been right all along.
All organised theocracy's have been guilty of some acts of evil except perhaps the Buddhists but Christianity if practised as read would have been quite unlike Islam were rape is accepted as well as marriage to child brides and slavery - before you say the obvious Christianity is taught in the new testament along with the proper interpretation of the old not the misinterpretation of the old.

edit on 9-8-2013 by LABTECH767 because: (no reason given)

the victims of christianity, the loving religion.
www.truthbeknown.com...

And even the buddhists have committed atrocities against muslims, and the muslims against buddhists.
So you read hebrew and aramaic and greek and latin to know what was the correct interpretation of the old testament? Or did your local priest tell you that?

Originally posted by LUXUS

Originally posted by Willtell
reply to post by LUXUS

 

Muhammad never wanted for people, the simple minded, to take him for some kind of demi-god like they did to Jesus; which only leads to further ignorance and idolatry, therefore he didn’t perform miracles for the populace,

Muhammad miracles were of the heart and mind where the foulest of Bedouin Arabs, who use to murder live babies, turned their hearts from evil to God and seeking knowledge.
That’s the real miracle, not sensationalized stuff that simple minded people rely on.

edit on 8-8-2013 by Willtell because: spelling error

Are you talking about the same man who was involved with killing so many, the same man who once hid under dead bodys to prevent himself from also being killed....it is not that he refused to preform miracles it was because he was just a man and was unable to do so!

I am interested in this ^

please provide sources of how many people muhamemd killed himself, and also a source for how many he ordered to death

also provide sources for what you claimed about hiding under dead bodies, what was the event called? I cant seem to find anything

thanks in advance

reply to post by LUXUS

Does man think that We will not assemble his bones?
Yes. [We are] Able [even] to proportion his fingertips.
But man desires to continue in sin. Koran 75:5

did you know that every person has a special fingertip. Koran says God can recreate those fingertips one by one.

And you see the mountains, thinking them rigid, while they are passing as the passing of clouds. [It is] the work of Allah , who perfected all things. Indeed, He is Acquainted with that which you do. Koran 27:88

mountains are passing because earth is rotating and moving.

He creates you in the wombs of your mothers, creation after creation, within three darknesses. That is Allah , your Lord; to Him belongs dominion. There is no deity except Him, so how are you averted? Koran 39:6

did you know that you were created in the womb of your mother within three layers which each layer were responsible of creation special sort of cells and limbs.

Then We made the sperm-drop into a clinging clot, and We made the clot into a lump [of flesh], and We made [from] the lump, bones, and We covered the bones with flesh; then We developed him into another creation. So blessed is Allah , the best of creators. Koran 23:14

did you know that you were a clinging clot !

Have those who disbelieved not considered that the skies and the earth were a joined entity, and We(God) separated them and made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe? Koran 21:30

!!!

And the skies We constructed with strength, and indeed, We(God) are [its] expander. Koran 51:47

did you know that skies (universe) is expanding.

And We have sent the fertilizing winds and sent down water from the sky and given you drink from it. And you are not its retainers. Koran 15: 22

winds have a great role in fertilizing plants and flowers and ....

.......and whoever He wants to misguide He makes his chest tight and constricted as though he were climbing into the sky........ Koran 6:125

so if someone climbs to sky it will feel that his chest is tight so that he can not breathe !

And your Lord inspired to the female bee, "Take for yourself among the mountains, houses, and among the trees and [in] that which they construct. Koran 16:68

pay attention that bees have a queen. the female bee. who is responsible of finding a place for living and making a colony !

It is He who shows you lightening, [causing] fear and aspiration, and generates the heavy clouds. Koran 13:12

clouds are heavy ! but their density is low !!

Then He directed Himself to the sky while it was smoke and said to it and to the earth, "Come [into being], willingly or by compulsion." They said, "We have come willingly." Koran 41:11

so universe was a smoke (gas) !

these can not be made by an illiterate person in that most backward point of this world 1400 years ago.

reply to post by OneManArmy


That's true, Bush "rebirth" into Christianity won him the elections.

The true believer will want to believe everything in order to find peace with itself, sometimes it doesn't matter if facts tells something different is all about faith.

Is the people the ones that created the prophets of ancient times because they wanted to believe in something to cope with the hardship of their lives and when somebody came around sounding like they had all the answers because of supernatural means they became followers.

Is human nature to either be a follower or a leader anybody else was considered an oddity, in ancient times they were either kill, sacrificed or expulsed from their tribes, today they are considered mentally unstable or dissidents.

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by OneManArmy

 

That's true, Bush "rebirth" into Christianity won him the elections.

The true believer will want to believe everything in order to find peace with itself, sometimes it doesn't matter if facts tells something different is all about faith.

Is the people the ones that created the prophets of ancient times because they wanted to believe in something to cope with the hardship of their lives and when somebody came around sounding like they had all the answers because of supernatural means they became followers.

Is human nature to either be a follower or a leader anybody else was considered an oddity, in ancient times they were either kill, sacrificed or expulsed from their tribes, today they are considered mentally unstable or dissidents.

I think religion was created and used by states as a means to unite their serfs under one ideology, much like we have communism and capitalism in the modern world, its creates national(tribal) identity, a sense of belonging. Using values as a means of having the serfs self determinate that is restricted by a set of boundaries.
For when the serfs are controlling themselves mentally then there is no need for vast armies to keep the masses in check. What better slave than one that imposes restrictions on themself, and by the tool of blind faith, not allow any truth into their lives that may question their very well crafted ideology.
The ancient civilizations deserve far more credit than we give them, just the fact that a book derived from far older texts and recrafted as a tool for domination 2000 yrs ago, which is so powerful even today is both a travesty and miracle at the same time.

reply to post by OneManArmy


That is true, I always wonder how can books of the ancient can hold populations throughout centuries well into our modern days.

For those that look for answers else where these books seem full of myth and lore mix with historical facts, but for those that believe, they are the only word of true and unquestionable.

It is a fact that under religion, religious believes and Prophets more people have been murdered in history than by any other reason like famine or sickness.

reply to post by LUXUS



I think i still have a copy of that comic book the quran. Nope, no miracles. The only one is that I still have a copy...

reply to post by LUXUS


Well that explains why Pope John Paul II is getting the fast-track to Sainthood treatment: the multiple miracles he somehow performed were to protect child-raping priest from facing criminal prosecution.

If that is what some Christians -- Catholics -- consider to be miracles and a requirement of saints and/or prophets, then frankly I could do with fewer miracles, thank you very much.

But please do tell: where is it written that prophets have to tell miracles? I thought all they had to do is to prophesy correctly.