Muhammad never preformed a single miracle his entire life

Originally posted by OneManArmy

Originally posted by LUXUS
reply to post by maes2

 

sura 79:30 al tasfir Jalalayn
and after He spread out the earth; He made it flat, for it had been created before the heaven, but without having i spread out

sura 71 : 19
and God has made the earth flat expanse for you

Not only does the Quran say the earth is flat but it says the Earth was made before heaven hahahaha.....lets all laugh at such a stupid book!

There is nothing about gravity or dark matter, it is azure (blue) mountains that hold up the sky according to them!

And so did the the christians/jews think the world was flat, they thought the Earth was the center of the universe, and that everything revolved around the earth. They also believed and many still do that the earth is 6000 yrs old.
They thought disease and misfortune was caused by witches and evil spirits. They tortured and murdered women and children in gods name.
Adam was made from the dirt of the earth and Eve made from a rib.
It also implies incest with Eve and her own son.

Do you know where the roots of modern science are?
Do you know where the word scalpel comes from?

I suggest you do some research before you carry on making yourself look like a complete and utter fool.

edit on 12-8-2013 by OneManArmy because: (no reason given)

Its Latin but im not really seeing your point? As far as science and religion they really are separate.

reply to post by LUXUS

Originally posted by LUXUS
sura 79:30 al tasfir Jalalayn
and after He spread out the earth; He made it flat, for it had been created before the heaven, but without having i spread out

sura 71 : 19
and God has made the earth flat expanse for you

Not only does the Quran say the earth is flat but it says the Earth was made before heaven hahahaha.....lets all laugh at such a stupid book!

I'm treating you like an adult here, but really, that final comment does make one wonder.

I'm sorry, Luxus, but you, and whoever made that video has been gravely mistaken (well, at least you, probably; the guy who made that video could simply have been lying). What the video links to is a TAFSIR, not a translation of the Quran. A tafsir is an interpretation, or an exegesis. It is interesting that the video made no effort to clarify this. The thing being quoted WAS NOT A TRANSLATION OF THE QURAN.
It was from an interpretation of a person hundreds of years ago, probably not educated in the sciences.

The word "flat" is not used anywhere in the verses you quoted in the Quran, or that the earth was created before heaven (I believe it may be the Bible that says that?), or anything about the sky being an azure mountain. NONE of that is the Quran, I'm sorry, you've been mistaken.

reply to post by babloyi

I'm treating you like an adult here, but really, that final comment does make one wonder.

Yeah, that's what I thought as well. Pretty disappointing to say the least.

reply to post by babloyi


He was not lying, he showed you the Arabic from tho official Islamic website of Jordan, he showed interpretations by Muhammads cousin who I the most revered Islamic scholar...what more do you want, you can go check what he said for yourself. My sarcastic comment was for those Muslims who keep saying the Quran is the most scientific book ever written, they say it contains no mistakes. The truth is it is full of mistakes!



Q. 22:65

Do you not see that Allah has made subservient to you whatsoever is in the earth and the ships running in the sea by His command? And He withholds the heaven FROM FALLING ON THE EARTH except with His permission; most surely Allah is Compassionate, Merciful to men. Shakir


So the heavens will fall down on the earth if not supported, what is supporting it from falling down? it is supported by mountains (pillars)


Q. 31:10

He created the heavens without any pillars THAT YE CAN SEE; He set on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with you; and He scattered through it beasts of all kinds. We send down rain from the sky, and produce on the earth every kind of noble creature, in pairs. Pickthall

Q. 78:6-7

Have WE not made the earth AS A BED, And the mountains AS PEGS? Sher Ali


Q. 67:3-5

And verily We have beautified the world's heaven with lamps, and We have made them missiles for the devils, and for them We have prepared the doom of flame.

The pillars hold up the shy dome and any devils who go out will be shot by shooting stars (meteorites)

Q. 2:22

WHO made the earth a bed for you, and the heaven a roof, and caused water to come down from the clouds and therewith brought forth fruits for your sustenance; so do not set up equals to ALLAH, while you know. Sher Ali

reply to post by LUXUS

Yes, the arabic was from the Quran, yet the tafsir was not. It is either an outright lie, or he's not as knowledgeable about Islam as he pretends to be. Interesting also how he has to jump from one tafsir to another to continue to make his points, despite the fact that the Quran supports none of them (I see you're doing the same with the translations of the Quran).

And I fail to understand how being a cousin of Muhammad makes him the "Most revered Islamic scholar". Abu Lahab, one of the most vitriolic enemies of Islam, was Muhammad's paternal uncle. Is he a scholar of Islam as well?
Anyhow, EVEN IF Ibn Abbas was the "Most revered Islamic scholar", does that make him the most revered scientific scholar? If I appreciate Aristotle as a philosopher, does that mean I must accept his misogynistic views on women?

Originally posted by LUXUS
reply to post by maes2

 

sura 79:30 al tasfir Jalalayn
and after He spread out the earth; He made it flat, for it had been created before the heaven, but without having i spread out

sura 71 : 19
and God has made the earth flat expanse for you

Not only does the Quran say the earth is flat but it says the Earth was made before heaven hahahaha.....lets all laugh at such a stupid book!

There is nothing about gravity or dark matter, it is azure (blue) mountains that hold up the sky according to them!

Go to 2:00 of the video below

this pretty a mistake on commenting and translating Koran. there is no word by the meaning of flat in those verses. the word is spreading and expanding and it does not mean necessary being flat.

Are you a more difficult creation or is the sky? Allah constructed it. He raised its ceiling and proportioned it. And He darkened its night and extracted its brightness. And after that He spread the earth. He extracted from it its water and its pasture. And the mountains He set firmly. Koran 79:27-79:31

not only the verses you quoted does not show any sign of flatness but it is itself a beautiful miracle.
it is saying that earth was fully covered by water at first. and then it became spread out of water and lands appeared. this is known as "dahu al arz" among muslims. and it is scientifically approved nowadays.
the assumption of flatness of earth is contrary to other parts of Koran. because Koran says that earth has many sunsets and sunrises. many easts and many wests. actually Koran insists that earth has more than two sunsets and sunrises. this can not be true unless the earth is a sphere.

So I swear by the Lord of all [the three hundred and sixty (360)] points of sunrise and sunset in the east and the west that surely We are Able Koran 70:40

we should pay attention that translations and comments may be wrong. only the main arabic words are adequate.

Originally posted by babloyi
reply to post by LUXUS

 

EVEN IF Ibn Abbas was the "Most revered Islamic scholar", does that make him the most revered scientific scholar? If I appreciate Aristotle as a philosopher, does that mean I must accept his misogynistic views on women?

I'm not the one who is claiming that the Quran is the most scientific book ever written, only a person who was either brainwashed religiously or absolutely flunked science at school would say that.

There is no Science in the Quran, it is like all the books of its time full of superstitions and fairytale. Basically Allah must not have a good grasp in science if this is what he told Muhammad or perhaps Muhammad made the whole book up himself and that's why it is full of mistakes...which one do you thing more probable?

reply to post by LUXUS

Originally posted by LUXUS
I'm not the one who is claiming that the Quran is the most scientific book ever written...

No, you're not, and nobody else is either.

But why are you talking about the Quran at all, when the evidence you provided from those videos was NOT the Quran, rather an exegesis on the Quran by a theologian from over a millennium ago?

DEFINITELY nobody ever said that Tafsir Ibn Abbas or even Tafsir al-Jalalayn were the the most scientific books written, and nobody even cares about defending them as books of science. So why the attack aimed at them, but masquerading as an attack on the Quran?

reply to post by LUXUS


You really need to put this into perspective: the prophet Muhammad didn't have much grasp on modern science as we know it because that's just how things are in the past. Not to mention he was illiterate when the Quran was first revealed to him.

Originally posted by babloyi
reply to post by LUXUS

 

Originally posted by LUXUS
I'm not the one who is claiming that the Quran is the most scientific book ever written...

No, you're not, and nobody else is either.

But why are you talking about the Quran at all, when the evidence you provided from those videos was NOT the Quran, rather an exegesis on the Quran by a theologian from over a millennium ago?

DEFINITELY nobody ever said that Tafsir Ibn Abbas or even Tafsir al-Jalalayn were the the most scientific books written, and nobody even cares about defending them as books of science. So why the attack aimed at them, but masquerading as an attack on the Quran?

edit on 13-8-2013 by babloyi because: (no reason given)

Actually they do make that claim there videos web sites dedicated to it. but thats neither here nor there.Funniest part is why islam and judaism fight it goes back to one person Abraham. When you think of all the blood thats been shed over stupid beliefs its sad. In case you guys are unaware ill explain how all the problems we have today lead directly to abraham. God made a covenant with Abraham saying he will have a son who will rule the land of canaan and be a king. Now we know his wife was barren and she agrees in order to fulfill gods covenant she allows Abraham to take a concubine. She has a child called Ishmael now according to the torah and the bible this was not who god was referring to. Instead God performs a miracle and his wife Sarah becomes pregnant with Isaac. Who is the father of Jacob founder of the 12 tribes.

So according to Islam the covenant was with Ishmael while judaism and christianity say it was with Isaac. So basically all these problems we have in the middle east boils down to who is the chosen people. When you break it down it just seems so utterly ridiculous and would be hilarious if it wasn't for the fact of how many lives have been lost over this.Religions where nothing more then to maintain control over people give them unity and some structure. However in order to use religion as a means of control you need to create fear and heres the bad part divisiveness. You have to separate your group from the others in order to control them So back to this thread here we are arguing over weather Islam is a valid religion well truth be told none are.

Now if you wish to argue that Islam is more dangerous then other religions there i can agree. Due to the time period it was written it is far more violent since it didnt have a profit like Jesus to tame it down instead Mohammad went the opposite direction and approved of acts of barbarism.

Originally posted by dragonridr
So according to Islam the covenant was with Ishmael while judaism and christianity say it was with Isaac. So basically all these problems we have in the middle east boils down to who is the chosen people. When you

Mohammad (PBUH) is known the only arab prophet which has a book. signs of him is still written in Bible and Gospels.
many of muslim scholars doubt whether Ishmael was a prophet or not, but they believe that Isaac was a prophet.
the problem in the middle east, is that some corrupted governments are persuading their corrupt wills. this story is not only summarized in the middle east. it is a world wide problem.
even if there were no religions, humanity had enough excuses to kill each other.
meanwhile monotheistic religions are a great common point to control the situation. monotheistic religions have no believers. they do not believe in their own humanity, let alone monotheistic religions.

Originally posted by dragonridr


Its Latin but im not really seeing your point? As far as science and religion they really are separate.

My point was to highlight that the attitudes and beliefs of people that lived 1500-2000 yrs ago are obviously filled with inconsistencies. So I thought singling out one for particular treatment was unfair.


That only leaves me thinking luxus is trolling, pointing out the obvious failings of ancient muslims while forgetting the attitudes of the rest of humanity at that time.
Damn, even our "modern" society is full of inconsistencies, people believing books written 1500-2000yrs+ ago as the unquestionable word of "insert diety here" or unproveable theories about where the universe came from(the big bang theory).
Not to forget blind patriotism which in essence is equally as bad as blind faith.
Then there is the questionable belief and faith in those that just lie to us over and over again and for us to believe them. (politicians)
The definition of insanity is to keep doing the same exact thing but expect a different result. On that basis most of mankind is insane.


Or people that know that you "cant always believe what you read in the newspapers" but then use the same newspapers to prove their point, like the newspapers are in some way acceptable as "proof".

Originally posted by maes2

Originally posted by dragonridr
So according to Islam the covenant was with Ishmael while judaism and christianity say it was with Isaac. So basically all these problems we have in the middle east boils down to who is the chosen people. When you

Mohammad (PBUH) is known the only arab prophet which has a book. signs of him is still written in Bible and Gospels.
many of muslim scholars doubt whether Ishmael was a prophet or not, but they believe that Isaac was a prophet.
the problem in the middle east, is that some corrupted governments are persuading their corrupt wills. this story is not only summarized in the middle east. it is a world wide problem.
even if there were no religions, humanity had enough excuses to kill each other.
meanwhile monotheistic religions are a great common point to control the situation. monotheistic religions have no believers. they do not believe in their own humanity, let alone monotheistic religions.

Has nothing to do with profits its about heritage. While some Jews and Christians believe they are descendents of Isaac, Muslims believe they are the descendents of Ishmael’s .And they believe it was Ishmael, not Isaac, Abraham almost sacrificed to God. The sparing of Ishmael’s life is celebrated with the festival Eid ul-Adha.And that the covenant was with Ishmael and it is lineage that owns the land. So bottom line is the fight has been over who god deeded the land too. Sadly this is a land dispute thats been going on for thousands of years.

Throw in the part where Muslims believe that there religion will eventually be the only religion and well we end up with the mess we have today. Because islam is not tolerant of other religions i spent 2 yrs in Saudi Arabia you can be arrested for carrying a bible. This is the main reason why the west has such a lack of understanding towards muslims.westerners tend to accept other religions and Islam sees them as a threat. Sorry rambling anyway Islam is very rigid and takes over all aspects of a muslims life this concept is totally foreign to the west. As we see it its backwards and archaic problem becomes true believers will do what ever they have to if they figure its the will of god. And thats where it becomes scary as hell!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by OneManArmy

Originally posted by dragonridr


Its Latin but im not really seeing your point? As far as science and religion they really are separate.

My point was to highlight that the attitudes and beliefs of people that lived 1500-2000 yrs ago are obviously filled with inconsistencies. So I thought singling out one for particular treatment was unfair.


That only leaves me thinking luxus is trolling, pointing out the obvious failings of ancient muslims while forgetting the attitudes of the rest of humanity at that time.
Damn, even our "modern" society is full of inconsistencies, people believing books written 1500-2000yrs+ ago as the unquestionable word of "insert diety here" or unproveable theories about where the universe came from(the big bang theory).
Not to forget blind patriotism which in essence is equally as bad as blind faith.
Then there is the questionable belief and faith in those that just lie to us over and over again and for us to believe them. (politicians)
The definition of insanity is to keep doing the same exact thing but expect a different result. On that basis most of mankind is insane.


Or people that know that you "cant always believe what you read in the newspapers" but then use the same newspapers to prove their point, like the newspapers are in some way acceptable as "proof".

edit on 13-8-2013 by OneManArmy because: (no reason given)

Very true Its all ways easier to find followers then leaders as a race we tend to follow. Sadly after thousands of years you think we would be better at taking control of our lives and making decisions on our own. This is why governments find it so easy to take things from there citizens people as a general rule wont stand up if they did there would never be dictators.

Originally posted by dragonridr

Originally posted by OneManArmy

Originally posted by dragonridr


Its Latin but im not really seeing your point? As far as science and religion they really are separate.

My point was to highlight that the attitudes and beliefs of people that lived 1500-2000 yrs ago are obviously filled with inconsistencies. So I thought singling out one for particular treatment was unfair.


That only leaves me thinking luxus is trolling, pointing out the obvious failings of ancient muslims while forgetting the attitudes of the rest of humanity at that time.
Damn, even our "modern" society is full of inconsistencies, people believing books written 1500-2000yrs+ ago as the unquestionable word of "insert diety here" or unproveable theories about where the universe came from(the big bang theory).
Not to forget blind patriotism which in essence is equally as bad as blind faith.
Then there is the questionable belief and faith in those that just lie to us over and over again and for us to believe them. (politicians)
The definition of insanity is to keep doing the same exact thing but expect a different result. On that basis most of mankind is insane.


Or people that know that you "cant always believe what you read in the newspapers" but then use the same newspapers to prove their point, like the newspapers are in some way acceptable as "proof".

edit on 13-8-2013 by OneManArmy because: (no reason given)

Very true Its all ways easier to find followers then leaders as a race we tend to follow. Sadly after thousands of years you think we would be better at taking control of our lives and making decisions on our own. This is why governments find it so easy to take things from there citizens people as a general rule wont stand up if they did there would never be dictators.

Exactly, christianity is the one of the biggest causes of externalisation of problems, ie its okay not to do anything about injustice because "jesus is coming to save the world"
NO, he isnt.

Its all part of the human condition, not so much religion, religion is a symptom not a cause.
People need to take control of their own lives and realise their true potential, other than relying on others to solve all their problems for them.

I like your sig by the way.

reply to post by gladtobehere

Yup, just like a story book!, LOL....

Fables, miracles, myths, lies...I had a muslim guy I worked with try to tell me there was some cleric or whatever who could control a helicopter with his mind, he kept it from crashing he said....

OK.....

I asked if he witnessed this himself, of course he said he did not...I said I didn't believe in anything, he said "So you are a crim..." , he began to call me a criminal for not believing in anything.

Take the blue pill, believe what you want to believe..........

Religion is a DANGEROUS thing.

reply to post by dragonridr

Originally posted by dragonridr
So according to Islam the covenant was with Ishmael while judaism and christianity say it was with Isaac. So basically all these problems we have in the middle east boils down to who is the chosen people.

Actually, according to Islam (and according to the Bible too, technically), the covenant is with the seed of Abraham, and that covers BOTH Ishmael and Isaac. The idea of being the "Chosen ones" or whatever doesn't exist in Islam- and muslims use no such justification as their excuse to have a "right" to Palestine or anything.

reply to post by OneManArmy

Its all part of the human condition, not so much religion, religion is a symptom not a cause. People need to take control of their own lives and realise their true potential, other than relying on others to solve all their problems for them.

Thank you General. I assume General as being a one man army your rank will be the highest



Brilliantly said

reply to post by MyHappyDogShiner

Religion is a DANGEROUS thing.

Dangerous to what? How can religion, other than a philosophy people follow be dangerous.

No its not.


The only dangers in this reality are the ones we create.

a person believing a philosophy, interpreting it to say kill all those that disbelieve is the danger.

Not the philosophy it self, but the person interpreting its words.

I asked if he witnessed this himself, of course he said he did not...I said I didn't believe in anything, he said "So you are a crim..." , he began to call me a criminal for not believing in anything. Take the blue pill, believe what you want to believe..........

Did you take offense to what he believes that your a "Crim"?

Originally posted by babloyi
reply to post by dragonridr

 

Originally posted by dragonridr
So according to Islam the covenant was with Ishmael while judaism and christianity say it was with Isaac. So basically all these problems we have in the middle east boils down to who is the chosen people.

Actually, according to Islam (and according to the Bible too, technically), the covenant is with the seed of Abraham, and that covers BOTH Ishmael and Isaac. The idea of being the "Chosen ones" or whatever doesn't exist in Islam- and muslims use no such justification as their excuse to have a "right" to Palestine or anything.

The Arab claim to the land of Israel rests entirely on three assumptions:

All Arabs are the descendants of Abraham through Ishmael.

Ishmael and his descendants were included in the covenant God made with Abraham.

Since the Abrahamic covenant included the land of Israel, the Arabs have a legitimate claim to it.

See theres a problem they see the Bible as being true according to the koran. Now in the bible the land is deeded to the jews. No the arabs didnt live there before him history just doesn't show that. So the only claim they can make is that god also gave them the land. Silly when you think about it god deeding land but hey people believe anything.

Funniest part is who owns the land has all ways been determined by one thing and thats being strong enough to keep it. Israel, Judea or palestine if you prefer has been fought over since its founding Lets see jews lost to the babylonians oh and the egyptians get expelled with the crusaders. Then this area became a backwater nothing there until the jews started moving back in the 1800s and early 1900s. Then they brought in irrigation and transformed the desert. They created jobs and arabs flocked in from other areas such as jordan and egypt. So the irony is if the jews had not moved back there would be nothing to fight over but a worthless dessert.