Muhammad never preformed a single miracle his entire life

Originally posted by auraelium

Originally posted by cass1dy09

Originally posted by buster2010

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Encore
Muhammad was a messenger sent by the god , just like Jesus Christ

1 - Prove it. Prove that Muhammad was really a messenger from God.
2 - And prove that he was 'just like Jesus Christ'. Considering that Jesus performed miracles and
considering that Jesus didn't raise Armies to slaughter and rape people, I think you are going to have a tough time proving it. But go ahead and try ...

edit on 8/8/2013 by FlyersFan because: (no reason given)

Show proof that Jesus actually existed. There is proof of Mohammed lived but where is the proof for Jesus.

There's over 5000 manuscripts that prove Jesus' existence. There's roughly only 20 that prove Socrates & Plato lived.. Lets stick to the argument if he preformed miracles or not and not argue if he existed because atheist bible scholars even agree he did.

One question I would like to ask a Muslim is how can you base an entire religion off of 1 angels apparent message when Enoch, Grandfather of Noah had encounters with 4 angels; Gabriel, Michael, Uriel and Raphael and his writings aren't even taken seriously/literal.

What you are saying is complete bunk. There's absolutely no evidence Jesus existed. none ..zero. the only alleged evidence is written words from religious books. that's not proof of existence. No more than the millions of hieroglyphics carved on the walls of Egyptian temples prove the existence of Horus or Osirus.

Brahm Stokers Dracula has been translated into 135 languages, copied, added to, re written, thousands of different editions and spin offs, The places in the book are all real places you can go visit them. Even Draculas castle is still in existence, does that mean that Dracula existed? no.

The Gospels have over 2000 contradictions alone. with many Scholars agreeing that some of the Gospels were written by many different people and not a single hand.

edit on 8-8-2013 by auraelium because: (no reason given)

Your wrong there is evidence outside the bible jesus existed. Here this quote is from the Testimonium Flavianum.

Antiquities 18.3.3. "Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was the Christ; and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct to this day."

Here is a letter from Pliny the younger to the roman emperor trajan on the persecution of christians.

They affirmed, however, that the whole of their guilt, or their error, was, that they were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was light, when they sang in alternate verse a hymn to Christ as to a god, and bound themselves to a solemn oath, not to any wicked deeds, but never to commit any fraud, theft, adultery, never to falsify their word, not to deny a trust when they should be called upon to deliver it up.

Here is from the historian Tacitus.

Christus: Annals 15.44.2-8 "Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome..."

An individual by the name of Tony Bushby has authored several books debunking religion and his research has been done well. To be brief as I can, according to Bushby, Muhammad was once a Catholic Priest who was passed over for promotion many times in the church, he was also an alcoholic, disillusioned he left the church, traveled, developed a following and created his own religion Islam. Another interesting point from his book that sticks in my mind is the thing with not eating pork, according to Bushby Muhammad as an alcoholic became drunk one day, went out in the countryside for a walk, passed out, along came a group of pigs and they attacked him while in his unconscious state and killed him, thus no more pork was eaten by those of his self created faith. As far fetched as all this may sound this is what Bushby has published.
Bushby and his well researched staff have written several books lifting the veil on all religions and history with some remarkable revelations, his books are hard to put down as they are so interesting.

Your wrong there is evidence outside the bible jesus existed. Here this quote is from the Testimonium Flavianum.

Antiquities 18.3.3. "Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was the Christ; and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct to this day."

Here is a letter from Pliny the younger to the roman emperor trajan on the persecution of christians.

They affirmed, however, that the whole of their guilt, or their error, was, that they were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was light, when they sang in alternate verse a hymn to Christ as to a god, and bound themselves to a solemn oath, not to any wicked deeds, but never to commit any fraud, theft, adultery, never to falsify their word, not to deny a trust when they should be called upon to deliver it up.

Here is from the historian Tacitus.

Christus: Annals 15.44.2-8 "Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome..."

Not so...

The writings of Josephus are not credible and not recognized outside of christian scholarly circles. Josephus, a Jew who never converted to Christianity, would not have called Jesus "the Christ" or "the truth," so the passage may very likely have been doctored by a later Christians, some early believers were in the habit of altering texts to the advantage of their theological agenda. The phrase "to this day" reveals it was written at a later time. Everyone agrees there was no "tribe of Christians" during the time of Josephus, Christianity did not get off the ground until the 2nd century AD. Again it sounds good but it is an account written after the supposed time of Jesus by a guy that wasn't there.The writings of Josephus did not turn up until the 4th century, that alone is suspicious. The original texts are lost to history the account that remains was written by a monk in the 15th century. Anyone can write anything and claim someone else wrote it.

Pliny's , Tacitus's accounts are debunked here:

ffrf.org...

This is a killer question. If I were a Muslim see this question and have no answer I would immediately abandon the Islamic faith. My wife, a beautiful Coptic from Southern Egypt told me about one miracle that Mohammad had performed: Once upon a time when people bothered Mohammed to perform a miracle, he was forced to stage a fake miracle by burying butter underneath the desert sand. When Mohammed was ready he told his people, “Come, my people, I will show you a miracle, I will bring out butter from the ground”. Immediately after that, a dog comes digg out the butter, and Mohammed was embarrassed he had to curse the dog. That is why Muslims hate dogs so much.

Deuteronomy 18:21-22, "“But you may wonder, ‘How will we know whether or not a prophecy is from the Lord?’ 22 If the prophet speaks in the Lord’s name but his prediction does not happen or come true, you will know that the Lord did not give that message. That prophet has spoken without my authority and need not be feared.
The true Prophet of the Lord predicts that which does come to pass. If the Prophet's predictions fail, they are exposed as NOT of God.

Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by LUXUS

 

No the Arabs were telling Muhammad that unless he displays his ability's they will just consider him a madman.

And the Jews suspected Jesus used demonic powers to do his work.... furthermore, like Mohammad, Jesus was also rejected by many and was the target of abuse and torture.

edit on 8-8-2013 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

Well if the Jew's suspected Jesus used demonic powers to do the things he did it suggests he must have displayed ability's which they considered supernatural...on the other hand Muhammad displayed no supernatural ability's of any kind and the locals thought he was just a blood thirsty madman!

Originally posted by Willtell
reply to post by LUXUS

 

Muhammad never wanted for people, the simple minded, to take him for some kind of demi-god like they did to Jesus; which only leads to further ignorance and idolatry, therefore he didn’t perform miracles for the populace,

Muhammad miracles were of the heart and mind where the foulest of Bedouin Arabs, who use to murder live babies, turned their hearts from evil to God and seeking knowledge.
That’s the real miracle, not sensationalized stuff that simple minded people rely on.

edit on 8-8-2013 by Willtell because: spelling error

Are you talking about the same man who was involved with killing so many, the same man who once hid under dead bodys to prevent himself from also being killed....it is not that he refused to preform miracles it was because he was just a man and was unable to do so!

reply to post by Wandering Scribe


Unusual people have always been able to do the unusual. I believe personally that when a person becomes enlightened they gain ability's that others don't normally have. For those people displays of these ability's are what is needed to show that you are who you say you are. This is no different in sport, I could tell you I'm a champion boxer but if I was then thrown into a ring and came out with a broken jaw and two black eyes you would have found me out......during Muhammads life he got found out, it took massive pr campaign to get him where he is today!

Originally posted by AuranVector

There's a long tradition that one who has merged with God (a fully realized being or gnosticus) can perform miracles.

edit on 8-8-2013 by AuranVector because: (no reason given)

Exactly, even the yogis in India gain minor ability's (siddhi) through the mental and energetic training they engage in, same with some high level martial arts masters. Muhammad was totally devoid of any spiritual power of any kind, and yet people follow him

Originally posted by GargIndia
reply to post by LUXUS

 

I have the following observations about your avatar:

a. Krishna was not weak or diminutive. The average height of men in Krishna's time was above 6 feet and people were well built. Krishna was of the average height and stature.

b. Krishna's skin color was 'brown' and not 'blue'. He was the same color as most of other Indians at that time. His color has been changed in stories that made him 'God' later on.

I desist from saying anything about Jesus or Mohammed. But I can say that people love false prophets because they love to deny the existence of the real God. The real God never takes birth, never sends any messengers to earth, and treats all life equally as all life bears the same soul. The real God is truth, justice and purity, things people want to run away from.

Did you observe however that Krishna was small (he was young) yet the guy he was fighting was huge (Indian wrestlers are bigger then average Indians), the only reason why Krishna kicked his ass is because he had "shakti" yes spiritual powers....see even the Indians recognize that true prophets are blessed with unusual ability's.

reply to post by LUXUS

Well if the Jew's suspected Jesus used demonic powers to do the things he did it suggests he must have displayed ability's which they considered supernatural...on the other hand Muhammad displayed no supernatural ability's of any kind and the locals thought he was just a blood thirsty madman!

You seem to think that a prophet needs to display supernatural abilities to be regardd as a true prophet.
Several Old Testament prophets did not perform any miracles or display any supernatural abilities.... and they are still regarded as legitimate prophets. How do you explain that?

Originally posted by Encore
reply to post by LUXUS

 

Muhammad never preformed a single miracle his entire life

The Prophet Muhammad’s biggest and eternal miracle is the Qur’an

edit on 9-8-2013 by Encore because: (no reason given)

If that is so then its not much of a miracle is it?

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by LUXUS

 

Well if the Jew's suspected Jesus used demonic powers to do the things he did it suggests he must have displayed ability's which they considered supernatural...on the other hand Muhammad displayed no supernatural ability's of any kind and the locals thought he was just a blood thirsty madman!

You seem to think that a prophet needs to display supernatural abilities to be regardd as a true prophet.
Several Old Testament prophets did not perform any miracles or display any supernatural abilities.... and they are still regarded as legitimate prophets. How do you explain that?

edit on 9-8-2013 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

Which ones?

reply to post by LUXUS

Which ones?

Pretty much everybody except Moses.
So what, are they all false prophets because they didn't perform any miracles or display any supernatural abilities?

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
You seem to think that a prophet needs to display supernatural abilities to be regardd as a true prophet.
Several Old Testament prophets did not perform any miracles or display any supernatural abilities.... and they are still regarded as legitimate prophets. How do you explain that?

It is simple enough:

Mark 13:22/Matt 24:24
For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

Big showy miracles aren't a sign of a Prophet. In fact, quite the opposite.

reply to post by LUXUS


All your posts are just conjecture, have you actually any evidence to back it up?

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by LUXUS

 

Which ones?

Pretty much everybody except Moses. So what, are they all false prophets because they didn't perform any miracles or display any supernatural abilities?

Where on earth do you get that from?? Did the humans who wrote the Qu'ran forget to transpose the miracles of the Old Testament prophets or something.

DANIEL - Daniel 3 - Nebuchadnezzar King of Babylon commanded men to bow to his image or be thrown into a fiery furnace. Daniel's three friends refused and were thrown in but were not harmed. Nebuchadnezzar decreed that no other god could deliver like that (vv 24-30). Also - Daniel in THE LIONs DEN. Daniels prophetic dreams were miracles.

JEREMIAH - Prophetic dreams were miracles.

HABBAKUK - Prophetic dreams were miracles.

ISAIAH - MANY Prophecies came true. That's a miracle. He either cured, or said Hezekiah would be cured. That's either a healing miracle or a prophecy miracle. He asked God to set the sun backwards, and God did.

ELIJAH on MT. CARMEL - 1 Kings 18:36-39 - God sent fire from heaven (which Baal could not do) so people would know to believe in the true God and that Elijah was acting by God's authority). 16 Miracles of Elijah

ELISHA - purifying a spring at Jericho, multiplying a widow's oil, bringing a Shunammite woman's son back to life (reminiscent of a miracle by Elijah), purifying a poisonous stew, and multiplying loaves of bread, healing of the Syrian army officer Naaman of leprosy.

JOSHUA - Joshua 4:2-24. God caused the Jordan to cease flowing so Israel could cross into Canaan on dry ground. God commanded Joshua to have the people take twelve stones from the midst of the river and set them up as a sign to remind following generations of this miracle .

EZEKIEL - Ezekiels greatest miracle - resurrection of the dead . Miraculous prophecies.






MIRACLES performed in the Old Testament

The river Jordan divided River Jordan Jos 3:14-17
Walls of Jericho fall down Jericho Jos 6:6-20
Sun and moon stand still Gibeon Jos 10:12-14
Water flowing from the rock En‐hakkore Jdg 15:19
Philistines slain before the ark Ashdod 1Sa 5:1-12
Men of Bethshemesh smitten Bethshemesh 1Sa 6:19
Thunder destroys Philistines Ebenezer 1Sa 7:10-12
Thunder and rain in harvest Gilgal 1Sa 12:18
Sound in the mulberry trees Rephaim 2Sa 5:23-25
Uzzah struck dead Perez‐uzzah 2Sa 6:7
Jeroboam’s hand withered Beth‐el 1Ki 13:4-5
Widow of Zarephath’s meal Zarephath 1Ki 17:14-16
Widow's son raised Zarephath 1Ki 17:17-24
Sacrifice consumed Mount Carmel 1Ki 18:30-38
Rain obtained Land of Israel 1Ki 18:41-45
Ahaziah’s captains consumed Near Samaria 2Ki 1:10-12
River Jordan divided River Jordan 2Ki 2:7-8, 2:14
Waters of Jericho healed Jericho 2Ki 2:21-22
Water for Jehoshaphat’s army Land of Moab 2Ki 3:16-20
The widow’s oil multiplied — 2Ki 4:2-7
Shunammite’s son raised Shunem 2Ki 4:32-37
The deadly pottage cured Gilgal 2Ki 4:38-41
Hundred men fed with twenty loaves Gilgal 2Ki 4:42-44
Naaman cured of his leprosy Samaria 2Ki 5:10-14
Leprosy inflicted Gehazi Samaria 2Ki 5:20-27
Iron swims River Jordan 2Ki 6:5-7
King of Syria’s army smitten Dothan 2Ki 6:18-20
Elisha’s bones revive the dead — 2Ki 13:21
Sennacherib’s army destroyed Jerusalem 2Ki 19:35
Sun goeth back Jerusalem 2Ki 20:9-11
Uzziah struck with leprosy Jerusalem 2Ch 26:16-21
Shadrach, Meshach, etc., delivered Babylon Dan 3:19-27
Daniel in the den of lions Babylon Dan 6:16-23
Jonah in the whale’s belly — Jon 2:1-10

Originally posted by babloyi
Big showy miracles aren't a sign of a Prophet. In fact, quite the opposite.

Um ... no. See the above post for examples.
By your standard .. Jesus was a fake.

Muhammad didn't perform any miracles because God wasn't with him.
He could claim to be a prophet until the cows come home ... but it simply isn't true.
God has backed up all his prophets with signs and wonders. Muhammad had none.

reply to post by LUXUS


But Mohammed didnt claim to be the son of god, just a prophet.

Mohammed got a copy of the bible and translated it..thus Islam was born.
Mary was mentioned more times in the Koran than in the new testament.

reply to post by FlyersFan

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Muhammad didn't perform any miracles because God wasn't with him.

Actually, no, I'm still waiting on that one. LUXUS's "proof" that Muhammad didn't perform any miracles is that none are mentioned in the Quran. In the opening post, LUXUS openly admits that the Hadith are peppered with miracles by Muhammad, but claims they are later additions.

That's all very interesting, but in that case, what is the criteria for judging any of the texts? The Quran isn't meant to be taken as a history book. But if it had mentioned a miracle (as many muslims say it does, involving the splitting of the moon), would that have been a later addition as well? At what point do we stop, then? All religious stories are made up? The entire Bible could've had all its miracles and stories made up as well...we've already established that it is, essentially hearsay, and certainly not "admissible in a court of law", nor is it "traceable non-corrupted first-hand eye-witness accounts".
So nobody did any miracles ever anywhere, apparently, because you can't trust any of the texts!

God has backed up all his prophets with signs and wonders.

Its far more likely that someone made it all up.