Pope Francis on Gays "Who Am I To Judge?'

I am still cautiously optimistic about the new pope too! So far, so good. Note that I am not Catholic, or even Christian, although I do believe that some of the teachings have great wisdom and serious truth. I do believe in The Creator (God, if you prefer,) and a war of good and evil. I've had experiences in my own life to show me this. I have known people who work for the Dark Side of the spiritual and those who work for the Greater Good. I am still hoping that Pope Francis is the latter. He seems to be using his position, wisely, to do good.

As for all this talk about pedophilia, it has nothing to do with the topic being discussed. If you want to have a go at the pope or Christianity in general, fine, but create your own forum for that. This issue is about Pope Francis stating that he will not judge gays, even gay priests, and is thus encouraging this same attitude in others of his faith. It's a good thing.

No human can judge homosexuality as far as the Bible teachings go. But you don't tolerate it's practice, or that of stealing, adultery or any other sin. People are free to come to church, but if they refuse to change then they just taint the church and weaken it. But if they are inside the church they can be 'judged'. That is stated in the Bible in Corinthians.

The Popes words were about not judging those trying to change, but about those outside the church. Not to turn them away. But he didn't advocate tolerating their open flaunting within the church of what the Bibles says is a sin along with all other sexual sin.

We cannot 'judge' those outside the church as they are not under the churches influence. But leaders can judge what goes on inside of it.

Whether it be homosexuality, cheating, lying, stealing, etc etc etc, you always welcome the people but not tolerate the behavior if they refuse to change....Love the person but not the sin they carry. etc etc etc

Those that think he's saying it's ok to be an active homosexual and be in the church thinking it's ok, are just plain wrong.

funkit nm.

reply to post by olaru12

What part of .... pedophilia and homosexuality are not the same thing ... don't you people get?
Seriously .. it's not that hard to understand. The information has been provided.
Educate yourselves. :shk:

Originally posted by OpenEars123
I'm all for gay priests, i really am. But they need to lust after people aged 18 and over.

DId you read the thread????

Again ... .homosexual people are attracted to ADULTS only.
Pedophiles are attracted CHILDREN only. These are two different things.
The pope saying 'who am I to judge' in regards to homosexuals has NOTHING to do with pedophiles.

Originally posted by phinubian
there is a thing that exists called Papal infallibility, which sort of defines and justifies the existence of the Pope, if the pope is really the Vicar of Christ and by proxy, "God' as implied in this position, then he certainly can judge, if not, then why do we even need a Pope?

- Papal infallibility is only applicable when the pope speaks ex-cathedra from the Chair of Peter on matters of doctrine. That's it.

- Papal infallibility has nothing to do with 'judging a persons soul'. The catechism and scripture are very clear that no christian is to judge the soul of another person. That job is God's alone.

- The Catechism statement on homosexual acts being a sin doesn't judge the soul of the person. It discerns the homosexual act as being a sin. The statement in the book in no way judges a persons soul. That is different.

Originally posted by Nephalim
Wonder why they still dont let priests marry and allow female Priests.
These two things shouldnt be an issue either.

Priests not being allowed to marry is a discipline based on scripture. It is based on the statements in scripture that it is better to serve the Lord as a non-married person so that you won't be distracted by wives and children but instead can serve the Lord and the Lords people totally. This can change because it's a discipline and not a doctrine. (Disciplines are based on suggestions from scripture or from tradition, whereas doctrines are considered to be teachings from Jesus or God in scripture)

Women not being allowed to be priests is a DOCTRINE based on the fact that Jesus didn't have any women disciples and no women were ordained priests by him at the Last Supper.

Obviously non catholics disagree with those interpretations, but that doesn't matter. Thats the Catholic interpretation and that's how they run their church.

reply to post by FlyersFan


He doesn't even have the moral authority to judge seeing the RCC proclivities. This sort of thing is no surprise. But he has judged the wealthy and not really according to scripture. The poor need to hear admonitions from the Sermon on the Mt about economic conditions in daily life rather than being taught to look for the wealthy to relive them.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by olaru12

 

What part of .... pedophilia and homosexuality are not the same thing ... don't you people get?
Seriously .. it's not that hard to understand. The information has been provided.
Educate yourselves. :shk:

Educate ourselves with what? A new age definition of homosexuality and pedophilia? Like its some sort of complicated truth beyond the simple thing it is? A grown man attracted to boys is some sort of homosexual for sure. Nothing complicated there.

Originally posted by Logarock
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

He doesn't even have the moral authority to judge seeing the RCC proclivities. This sort of thing is no surprise. But he has judged the wealthy and not really according to scripture. The poor need to hear admonitions from the Sermon on the Mt about economic conditions in daily life rather than being taught to look for the wealthy to relive them.

I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?” Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” Matthew 19:23-26

You still wish to protect riches of monetary wealth over richness of the soul. To sit in a mansion while people starve on your city streets, while you can't volunteer one minute of your time or one penny of your wealth ... I don't envy the judgment of your God against you.



The hate towards others and the ignorance of both the Word and the soul are strong in this thread.

Blind men trying to preach when they cannot read the words and understand. They just parrot the hate that makes them feel better about themselves instead of understanding the message of love.

Live by example. Do no judge souls. You don't have to like what others do; but you still lead by example and hope to help each and every soul into heaven. That is your job as a Christian; it is not to judge, to spew hate, to be violent in speech or strike. You are simply to spread love across the world, and help others to love as well.

The hate and anger can only hurt you in the end.

Originally posted by Logarock

Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by olaru12

 

What part of .... pedophilia and homosexuality are not the same thing ... don't you people get?
Seriously .. it's not that hard to understand. The information has been provided.
Educate yourselves. :shk:

Educate ourselves with what? A new age definition of homosexuality and pedophilia? Like its some sort of complicated truth beyond the simple thing it is? A grown man attracted to boys is some sort of homosexual for sure. Nothing complicated there.

But your non-complicated definition would mean all heterosexuals were also pedophiles. A man attracted to a young girl or a woman attracted to a young boy are both heterosexual and pedophillic.

What you are trying to say is if A is a subset of B, then all of B must be A. That is not the case, because in the simplest terms, you are saying because all squares are rectangles, all rectangles must be squares. You are twisting reality to support your bigotry with false logic.

Pedophilia is an attraction to prepubescence, and imo a serious mental defect that I wish could be eradicated from existence (not the people, the attraction that people have). Homosexuality, like Heterosexuality is the attraction to adults legally capable of making their own decisions. It is not for me to tell people who to love, for you should love everyone; so it is also not my position to tell people who they settle down with; I may not agree with that lifestyle, but it is not my position to determine how others should live, for I believe in true freedom and independence for people who have reached the age of maturity. If you want to marry your best buddy, I cannot judge you; in fact, I'm more worried about how you treat other people than what you do in your own home, or if you kiss a guy.

If you are straight or gay, and hateful; I will have the same lack of respect for you. If you are loving and bring happiness into the lives you come in contact with; I will have equal respect no matter who you chose to have as your significant other.

The slippery slope bull# arguments of people with hate in their heart and soul is the sign of lack of intelligence. Anyone who thinks homosexuality or even polygamy leads to pedophilia or bestiality are just hateful, spiteful souls who are showing their ignorance and immaturity. No different than the people who participated in the witch trials, drowning innocent people they accused.

Saying that someone isn't like you, therefore you scare me and I hate you ... is the saddest state of humanity. It is the cause of wars and violence. It is the proof that our species has a long way to come before we become enlightened.

Please let your souls mature; for the sake of humanity.

reply to post by Logarock

Could you point out where he has judged the souls of the wealthy?
I'd like to see that.
I know he's preached at the wealthy to 'share' and that it's their 'duty'.
But I haven't seen anything about judging them. I'd like to see that.
If what you say is accurate ... then I'd have to say 'tsk tsk' to the pope on that.
Thanks.

Originally posted by Logarock
A grown man attracted to boys is some sort of homosexual for sure. Nothing complicated there.

I used to think that as well. But it's not accurate.

Homosexuals ... grown men attracted to ONLY grown men.
Pedophiles ... grown men attracted to ONLY children.
There is no cross over. They are two different things.

Originally posted by FreeThinkerIdealist
Do no judge souls. You don't have to like what others do; but you still lead by example and hope to help each and every soul into heaven. That is your job as a Christian; it is not to judge, to spew hate, to be violent in speech or strike. You are simply to spread love across the world, and help others to love as well.

There ya' go. That's what the pope was saying. He didn't say anything about the act the person was doing ... only that we are not to judge the soul.

Everyone has a different struggle. Everyone has a different cross to carry. Everyone comes to realization and spiritual maturity in their own time. We can't judge what is happening in anothers soul. Sometimes it is a temptation to do so ... but only God knows the soul and only God knows what a person is culpable for.

Discernment = good.
Judgement = gods job.

That's perfectly in line with scripture.

Pope Francis on < insert any sin here > "Who am I to judge?"

He is correct. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. But that does not mean sin is an acceptable lifestyle choice. It is a narrow line to love the sinner but not the sin. Christians should be in the world not of the world.

Bad mistake Pope; you might get the Nobel Prize too but you will cost your cult a lot of civil suit money, lost members and souls. There is a line between homosexuality and pedophilia but it is so transparent and thin that it exists only in theory. On the other hand, you will gain a lot of support from the sons of Satan and Sodom.

He is just the Pope, the "Holy See" and as Pontiff he is Not the Great Judge but he should be able to oversee church principles and that should include keeping homosexuals who have abused children out of the church. That is not the same as judging gays....

Originally posted by ShadellacZumbrum
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

That is quite interesting.

Through the Pope's Voice the Catholic Church has done a 180 on their views of Gays.

Like I have said several times before. .. It is only a matter of time before Abortion becomes acceptable.

My question is what motivated the change of view? Was it the controversy of terrible things that priests do to children?

I agree it is about time that the Catholic Church finds gays acceptable, but also find it's motivation highly suspect.

edit on 29-7-2013 by ShadellacZumbrum because: (no reason given)

It's actually not gone as far as you may think. He wasn't condoning or agreeing with homosexual acts, 'just' the fact someone is a homosexual - so basically it's ok as long as you don't actually practice your homosexuality.

Originally posted by roberthsiddelljr
Bad mistake Pope; you might get the Nobel Prize too but you will cost your cult a lot of civil suit money, lost members and souls.

You've got that backwards. It would cost people their souls if the pope told them to judge the souls of others. Those people would be putting themselves in the place of God by judging the souls of others. By the pope telling people not to judge a persons soul, he is stating correct Christian theology and he is helping souls not to be lost.

He did not condone behaviors but instead spoke on a spiritual level about what is Gods job and what is ours. Big difference.

There is a line between homosexuality and pedophilia but it is so transparent and thin that it exists only in theory.

No. It exists in reality.

Homosexuals ... men attracted only to men.
Pedophiles ... men attracted only to children.

That's not theory. That's the way it is.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Flyers Fan you have impeccable logic in your posts!

Originally posted by Starwise
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

This kinda makes me nervous....But will he judge those Priests who use children in nefarious ways?

Let me guess. Are you one of those people who throw pedophilia and homosexuality in the same boat even though nearly every single pedophile is heterosexual? Is that why you are asking this?

Priests who molest children do it because they are pedophiles. Not because they are attracted to a particular gender.