Pope Francis on Gays "Who Am I To Judge?'

reply to post by FlyersFan


Now, if he would just embrace condoms and birth control! As long as he doesn't, he, and his church, is dangerous to humanity.

Originally posted by windword
Now, if he would just embrace condoms and birth control!

ABC News - Popes Views on Condoms Could Impact AIDS Work

One way of combating epidemics, including HIV/AIDS, is the use of condoms. But the Catholic Church bans the use of contraceptives. While the new pope is reportedly orthodox on matters of sexual morality, "he takes a slightly more pragmatic view on contraception, believing that it can be permissible to prevent the spread of disease," according to a report in The Guardian.

Former Pope Benedict XVI said in 2010 that the use of condoms might be morally acceptable in some cases to prevent the spread of HIV, but not to avoid pregnancy.

The Church can't change it's 'no birth control' stand. It's doctrine that can't be changed. However, it says that birth control can be used to 'prevent the spread of disease' ... when it's not used specifically to stop pregnancy.

(I should note that I'm a strong disbeliever in the Church teaching on Onanism ... and I also think that most people out in the field, in high HIV areas, don't listen to what Rome says on this anyways).

Not judging and condoning are two different things.

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
Not judging and condoning are two different things.

Yep.

He said not to JUDGE a persons SOUL. That's for god to do.
Everyone struggles. Everyone has their own crosses to carry.
IMHO he was saying ... don't hate and don't judge. That's it.
Something that a lot of people need reminding of ...

Originally posted by boymonkey74
I agree with him, I just hope his followers take note and stop judging also (you know who you are).
At last we have ammunition (It feels like a war sometimes) to use against those who judge against others.
But I would not be surprised If one of his followers tried to take the guy out.
Hope not he is doing what is right and best for the CC moving forward.
Great find FF.
S&F

Using the Pope's comments as "ammunition" against those who judge against others? So, does it make any difference to you if his comments are not all according to scripture given to Christians for instruction, reproof and teaching? What you appear to be saying is that it matters not whether he speaks truth, but just so that you can use it to justify something which you deem acceptable within Christian assemblies?

reply to post by WhoKnows100


I can now just use him as an example now thats all I mean, The Pope doesn't want others to judge that is Gods Job not mans.
He is the spokesperson for God for many people, what he says goes and I expect his followers to respect his words.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
Not judging and condoning are two different things.

Yep.

He said not to JUDGE a persons SOUL. That's for god to do.
Everyone struggles. Everyone has their own crosses to carry.
IMHO he was saying ... don't hate and don't judge. That's it.
Something that a lot of people need reminding of ...

He never said anything about "hating and judging". The Catholic Church has brought disgrace upon Christ for decades upon decades with its tolerance of active gay priests and active pedophile priests. It has made His name a reproach in this Earth do to its shameful policy of transferring 'problem' priests from one parish to another, hurting family after family after family. It had brought disgrace upon Our Lord as its priests are filmed visiting gay night clubs and brothels then donning their garb for services the next morning. They not only tolerate it, they condone it. As a Christian I will rebuke their shameful conduct, and rebuke this move to open the gates for acceptance of openly practicing homosexuals and other sexual immorality within supposed houses of God. They aren't picking up their crosses because that means to crucify your worldy passions and lusts - instead they appear to be an organisation that caters for worldly lusts.

reply to post by WhoKnows100


You wouldn't like what Archbishop desmond Tutu says about it then...
You choose to live in the past and If your religion does the same it will die off, many are turning away because they understand they can look within and get the answers they want, fine If you choose to embrace hatred instead of love just stop preaching about it please because you are just turning people away from your views.

reply to post by FlyersFan


The Catholic Church can and has changed it's stance on numerous positions in the past. For example Papal infallibility, eating meat on Fridays, salvation outside of the Catholic church, infant baptism and immersion and more.

So if Catholics are following the Pope. They are also not anti-gay.

Tables are turning.

Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by WhoKnows100

 

I can now just use him as an example now thats all I mean, The Pope doesn't want others to judge that is Gods Job not mans.
He is the spokesperson for God for many people, what he says goes and I expect his followers to respect his words.

Christians are not to judge non-Christians. Any Christians flagrantly and purposey sinning are to be rebuked within the church, and if not brought to repentance, are to be sent out. Those are the words of Christ to the Pope. Yet, as in every other aspect of the gospel, they are disregarded for the words of men. Therefore, why is it that you "expect" his followers to respect his words? Because they are HIS followers perhaps? Can you not see that instead of shifting pedophile and gay priests from parish to parish after they reek havoc in one area, this Pope appears to be "solving" the problem by slowly gaining acceptance to just openly accept them? Even though the Catholic church still defines homosexual acts as sin, they've done nothing to rid the sin from their church - thus bringing such mockery upon Our God in this world. The world doesn't see men walking as Christ, they see men walking as predators and sexual perverts and greedy men seeking approval from this world, NOT from the One who matters.
A Son of God must discern fruits, and this IS making a judgement as to whether or not those fruit are rotten or of God. But of course, this Pope isn't about to tell the world this truth because he's too busy pandering to the crowd who do not like to feel conviction for their sin.

Originally posted by WhoKnows100
does it make any difference to you if his comments are not all according to scripture given to Christians for instruction, reproof and teaching?

What the pope said is absolutely in line with scripture and Christian teaching.
The pope didn't endorse homosexual sex. He said 'Who am I to judge'.
He said that we shouldn't JUDGE the SOULS of people as they struggle in life.
We can DISCERN ACTIONS ... but he said not to JUDGE SOULS ...
And that is 100% in line with scripture and church teaching.
NO ONE should be judging the souls of others. That's God's job.
And if we judge the soul, then we are putting ourself in the place of God.
And that's a sin on us ... not the person we are judging.
It's not our place to judge souls.

reply to post by FlyersFan


He said this as "Forgiving Gays" but didn't say that being gay wasn't a sin and this has nothing to do with priests. As a whole, priests are not only not allowed to be gay, but also not able to have sex in the first place, or even willingly think and or act on it.

I very much agree with him. We shouldn't hate... especially not against someone who's different than us. We should still treat them as our brothers and sisters. We just simply dont have to agree with the act. There is a difference and I see that is exactly what he's saying.

reply to post by WhoKnows100


Christians are not supposed to judge anyone. Christians or not.

God is the ONLY judge. We are supposed to love one another equally and unconditionally. Doesn't matter what opinions we have between each other. Nothing should ever fall to hatred.

Originally posted by WhoKnows100
He never said anything about "hating and judging".

He has said previously not to hate and obviously what he is saying is not to hate people but to understand that they have crosses to carry as well. He spoke about people struggling with homosexuality. And in this instance he absolutely did talk about JUDGING. He said he isn't in a position to JUDGE people. Judging means judging a persons soul. And guess what .... YOU aren't in a position to judge a persons soul either. Only God can. The pope is 100% correct.

The Catholic Church has brought disgrace upon Christ for decades upon decades with its tolerance of active gay priests and active pedophile priests.

Guess what dude .. it happens in the protestant churches too. That's right. But it isn't in vogue to talk about how it happens with protestant ministers. I worked for a Baptist preacher in Madison Alabama back in the early 1990s who got caught running around the seedy part of Huntsville in a trench coat and he was flashing people and playing with himself. BAPTIST MINISTER. It happens. It's not uncommon. And it gets swept under the rug.

They not only tolerate it, they condone it.

Oh just stop it. :shk:
Pope Francis calls for decisive action against pedophile priests
For the Sake of God's Children - Catholic program in Catholic Churches around the world. This is information one of the parishes.

As a Christian I will rebuke their shameful conduct, and rebuke this move to open the gates for acceptance of openly practicing homosexuals and other sexual immorality within supposed houses of God.

As a Christian you should see the wisdom in the popes words ... DO NOT JUDGE. You should know scripture states exactly that ... leave the judging of the soul to God. Discern the actions ... but do not judge the soul. Or is your anti-Catholic hatred getting in the way of acknowledging the Christian truth of the popes words? hmmm ....

Far right Christians like " judgeing" even though they are quite repulsive - never mind they don't see that part

Originally posted by WhoKnows100
Christians are not to judge non-Christians.

Christians are not to judge ANYONE's souls.

Any Christians flagrantly and purposey sinning are to be rebuked within the church, and if not brought to repentance, are to be sent out.

You are talking about discerning ACTIONS. That's not judging a SOUL. Big difference.

As for the rest of your post, it's just the usual 'catholics can't do anything right' fundamentalist stuff that Jack Chick writes. Are you sure you are a christian? Understanding the difference between discernment and judgement ... and the difference between a persons actions and the soul ... that's all pretty basic stuff and you don't seem to have a grasp on it.

Originally posted by theRhenn
As a whole, priests are not only not allowed to be gay, but also not able to have sex in the first place, or even willingly think and or act on it.

Catholic teaching ... a priest, no matter what his sexual orientation is, is to remain celibate.
So it wouldn't matter if he was straight or gay or bi or nonsexual .... no sex no matter what.
Of course, not everyone is able to keep that rule, and that's where problems happen.
But that's the teaching. And that's what they agree to when they are ordained.

Lets face it they will judge people all the way to " hell" that's the nature of fundamentalism.

It has no place for individuality.

Originally posted by windword
The Catholic Church can and has changed it's stance on numerous positions in the past. For example Papal infallibility, eating meat on Fridays, salvation outside of the Catholic church, infant baptism and immersion and more.

Those that have changed are disciplines .. not doctrines. Disciplines can change. Doctrines can not. Disciplines are considered 'suggestions' from scripture. Doctrines are considered Divine Truth or Divine Command from scripture. It's complicated .. I know. But after 2,000 years it's going to be. You see how complicated Americas laws are after just 225 years ... Imagine them after 2,000 years.

Papal Infallibility really hasn't changed. The pope is still considered 'infallible' when he makes a pronouncement ex-cathedra. And as for infant baptism ... the church has always called for it. Baptism by immersion is allowed in the church but the water must be moving. That's the rubic for baptism .. water must be moving like the river Jordan was moving .. 'washing away' the sins during baptism .. that kind of thing.