What if Jesus is the DECEPTION?

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by Kody27

 

Originally posted by Kody27
Mmmm the whole God and Satan thing is a Christian concept.

No, it isn't.

Satan is Set-Hen (Eternal Set - The God of Darkness represented by a Jackal and SERPENT).

In the Egyptian Stories, "Set-hen" has the same role as "Satan". Set-hen is the rival or Horus who is the God who walked on walked, healedp people, raised the dead, died and resurrected to conquer death and was considered KRST (The anointed one - Christ). Just like Jesus, there is a prophecy that he will return for 1,000 years of peace on the Earth. Jesus was in the deserted to be tempted by "Satan", Horus was in the dessert to be tempted by "Set-hen", and this is only a FEW of the connections.

See my full post on this. HERE

Satan is also called "God of This world" (2 Corinthians 4:4) and he is represented by The Serpent who gave people a food of knowledge (The Book of Genesis).

In Sumerian Religion, Enki has the same story and the name "Enki" means "God of Earth". Also, Enki was "The Serpent God".

So "Satan" was not created by "Christianity", Satan is a being that is ancient and went by many names in these religions, most commonly: Set and Enki.

By the way, did you know, in Sanskrit "Sat" or "Satyan" means "Truth"? Later Hebrew changed the meaning to be "Adversary" or "Enemy". Sanskrit is a much older language.

Yes I did know all of that actually. Seriously I did a report in college on the Egyptian roots of Christianity, and I just ordered "Christianity: An Egyptian Religion" off of Amazon the other day. I'm well aware of all the connections and similarities between Jesus, Horus, Satan, Set, Osiris, Isis, and so on.

What I meant to say, and I guess I should have elaborated, is that the specific ideologies associated with the Christian concepts of God and Satan are simply that, Christian concepts. They are not the same thing, even conceptually, as the Egyptian and Sumerian versions. They are distorted versions of these tales, actually, they're not even versions, they're just inspired by them.

reply to post by Kody27


Either way, Christianity is just a reworked amalgamation of many older belief systems that it now forswears any and all connection with. Christianity is no more original than the English language.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Maybe, in the sense of having a religion, and some of the concepts. But I believe there is good reason to believe that Jesus was a real person, and although his beliefs were had by others throughout history, he was quite original. Jesus was a radical philosopher, the people who wrote the bible about jesus did so in a way to distort jesus' teachings to maintain control over the people and not allow the type of spiritual revolution jesus preached. Although some time after there were spiritual revolutions, only in the name of the subtle weapon of Christianity, not in the true name of jesus' ideals.

reply to post by Jusvistn

I've re-read your posts in order to determine what your question can be boiled down to. I think this quote here summarizes it:

I stress that where I believe the deception may lie is in the interpretation of the way PEOPLE worship Jesus over God. What does bother me about the bible though, is that it is taught that Jesus, the bible and Christianity is the ONLY real and true faith and all others are wrong.

Ophiuchus 13 offered this:

Originally posted by Ophiuchus 13
Intelligence says gather as much subjective data then compile the most truth to get close to objective data. And so the GOD LORD Energies mentioned. To 1 it is naive to make fun or degrade the w/o enough proof to verify the truth associated with the... and yourself.

NAMASTE*******

I underlined what I find very important.

I could rephrase your question thus: What does or should Jesus represent to us today, as in 2013 C.E.?

I would offer as an answer: Honesty.

It is my observation that most people really have no idea who Jesus was or is, yet many people lie by claiming that they do. Objective fact finders have not found conclusive evidence that the person, as described in the Gospels, ever existed. Any Bible scholar honestly examining the claims of "he fulfilled prophesy" will soon discover that NO, he didn't. He is not the Messiah that the post-exile writers wrote about.

The question still remains, then who was he?

The closest, most honest answer I can offer is: I don't know.

To expand upon that: He is a stranger, he just showed up and started teaching things. I don't know where he came from or where he went. It's similar to the mythological story of the strangers showing up in Sodom. They didn't know where they came from and chose to abuse them. The city was destroyed as a result according to the story.

According to the Jesus story, the same thing happened. But in the Jesus story, he gave a 30 year warning, seems like a decent eviction notice. Beats the same night that Sodom got. Beats the month or two that people nowadays get.

What happened? Instead of vacating the city, people claiming to be his successors started a church organization claiming that he was the Messiah. They stayed in the city, made it some sort of holy place, started believing that since the Messiah had come, then the prophecies about Jerusalem lasting forever against all foes would become reality. They were wrong.

If the people living in the same generation that Jesus did could get it so wrong, then it seems reasonable that we have more potential to get things wrong than they did. We can't even sort out what he really taught from the things that people claim he taught.

I find it quite convincing to me at least that Jesus was a stranger for his generation, which has passed. Ethical teachings and teachings about hidden realities have a certain timeless quality to them however.

reply to post by Jusvistn


If you want to understand Jesus, it is vital to understand non-duality. (Advaita Vedanta).

Jesus is legit. You just have been brainwashed with a westernized watered down version of what Christ was all about.

See the thread in my link below, and will all start to make sense

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by Kashai

 

Any thoughts? Yes, that they couldn't kill him, and that he survived the ordeal even if only by a thread. Why couldn't they kill him? Because the God"conspiracy" was too powerful by which he was to see the resurrected life on the other side of the cross and tomb. In other words that Jesus perpetrated a type of reverse-sting, double bind / hoodwink on his enemies to confound them all, while at the same time taking upon himself the sins of the world as a ransom for many, and completing an ancient ritual prophesied from ancient times and yes even one that was mythologized in relation to the helliocentric system of moon and sun worship whereby Jesus can be seen enacting the ritual, and pulling it off, quite literally, to a t.

So there WAS a deception, and I don't mean that of Jesus "hoaxing" his own death, since he was obedient to the very point of death leaving the outcome in God's hands ie: he was probably double blind heading into the ordeal in order so that it would be by faith alone that he would exit the tomb after three days (note that Nicodemus covered his body in aloe..), but a deception by Jesus of all manner of evil and wickedness at all levels, from average Joe to evil empire. It's a deception that's one step ahead of "the evil one" including the most cunning wickedness and pride of man, so the OP has intuited correctly that there was a "Jesus deception" but the true nature of the conspiracy, well, once understood and recognized is, imho, the funniest possible outcome imaginable, funny in the sense that the final realization is a type of grand joke told at the expense of our own pride, wickedness and the ignorance that begets all evil at all levels.

What's important is to try to discern his reason which is of a higher order of magnitude than most of us can even imagine.

reply to post by borntowatch

What were His heretical ideas, many gentiles and Sammaritans held heretic ideas lived those time and wernt killed,
Why did the Jews kill Christ

And many were killed, what’s your point? Since we don’t have records of who were and were not killed and their supposed heretical ideas this makes for a poor comparison.

So if blasphemy gets you stoned to death, like calling yourself the son of God, then what do you have to do to get crucified?

I think the deception here is that Jesus claimed to be God, the son of God or Messiah. It is written that Jesus claimed to be the son of man, a descendent of David, not the son of God. This is proof of a disparity in the gospels. It has also been written that he did not claim to be the Messiah but rather asked what the people say that he was, that is what he was. Subsequently the people were saying that he was the Messiah.

reply to post by akushla99

Make no mistake about it – enlightenment is a destructive process. It has nothing to do with becoming better or being happier Enlightenment is the crumbling away of untruth. It’s seeing through the facade of pretense. It’s the complete eradication of everything we imagined to be true.

reply to post by Unrealised

Well, if Satan (according to the Bible and other related texts) is the king of all lies and deception, we can't be sure of anything.

As per the biblical text satan means adversary. It is a descriptive word not a noun, there is no entity called “Satan”. A satan is one who opposes or falsely accuses.

For all we know, Satan is God, and created the entire thing to lure Humans into unknowingly worshiping an Angel of Evil.

Unless you are claiming that God is an adversary to himself than no, God is not satan. This is yet another deception brought on by the church and has been discussed many times here on ATS.

There is no devil, satan is not a being but a descriptive word and there is no place called hell were God throws nonbelievers into for all eternity.

Originally posted by Jusvistn
I honestly do not want to start a holy war or all out religious cyber fight, but am looking for real input.

Real input following...

Originally posted by Jusvistn
I believe in GOD, I believe that there is an intelligent design to our planet, our environment and our species, but I truly struggle with the concept of Jesus as GOD.

I'm not saying that Jesus never existed, and I'm not saying that Jesus wasn't a great inspiration bringing GODS will and knowledge to us, but I find it difficult to worship a man when GOD says you "will put no other GODS before me." Essentially, is that not what folks are doing when they are praying and worshiping Jesus INSTEAD of God?

First, let me say that I agree with you. I have studied the Bible my whole life and you are not incorrect. The Biblical message has been heavily corrupted by people that were enamored with the teachings of Plato, and wanted to somehow make Christianity resemble that.

Now, keep in mind what I am going to tell you. "God" is not a specie. "God" is not a class or type of being. "God" is a title. When Jehovah Himself said that "You shall have no other gods before me", He Himself was acknowledging that such title would be attributed to beings other than Himself.

So, stop struggling with the concept of Jesus being described as a god. It is a non-issue, even to God Himself.

And yeah, when folks are worshipping Jesus, they are violating that commandment.

Originally posted by Jusvistn
And though Jesus teaches these things, and then tells us to worship him..... what if he is the true deception in the grand scheme of things?

Jesus never taught us to worship him.

Originally posted by Jusvistn
To me, Jesus is separate from God, and I have a hard time calling them one in the same, and I have difficulty with the God made flesh aspect that brings us to the whole Son, Spirit, Holy Ghost thing..... For me, to believe in the "one true God" means that Jesus would be no more than a teacher as what you would find preaching from the front of the church today. So I ask again, could Jesus be the Deception, and in his "teachings" be pulling the people away from God and into his own agenda?

I'm just trying to get my head wrapped around this. I appreciate your civil insights.

No, Jesus is not a deception, but what you were taught about him is. You should learn what the Bible really teaches, and not what people say that the Bible teaches.

The church's teachings have made the world complacent and uncaring and they have completely twisted what Jesus was really saying, and that is that we are all children of God and that we and the Father are One, right along with Jesus.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


John 8:38 "I speak what I have seen with My Father, and you do what you have seen with your father"
John 8:39 They answered and said to Him, "Abraham is our father." Jesus said to them, "If you were Abraham's children, you would do the works of Abraham.
John 8:40 "But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this.
John 8:41 "You do the deeds of your father."
John 8:42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me."
John 8:44 "You are of your father the devil , and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him.

Jesus NEVER said we were all children of GOD. He NEVER said we were all one with the Father.
Jesus clearly differentiated between the people in the world. Children of light, and children of darkness.
By their fruits, you shall know them.

Jesus never taught us to worship him.

reply to post by Leahn


John 20:27 Then He said to Thomas, "Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand [here], and put [it] into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing."
John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"

Thomas certainly worshipped Him, and called Him his 'GOD'. And Jesus didn't forbid him (observant Jew that He was).
So now you need to decide if Jesus was who He claimed to believe, or maybe just believed He was who He claimed to be, or whether He was a deceitful, manipulative person.

YES! THE INSPIRED(GOD BREATHED) WORD OF GOD SAYS JESUS IS GOD! BELIEVE IT!===JOHN 8:58==58 Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM." 59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by." (The Jews knew their scriptures and they knew exactly what Jesus was saying when He said "before Abraham was I AM." There was only one I AM and that is what God Himself told Moses that His Name was.) Exo 3:13-14

reply to post by pthena


THERE IS ONE "TRUTH" ETERNAL NON CHANGING! GOD is truth,light and love and there is no other,however there are are thousands of false gods most are demons. BEWARE!

reply to post by Leahn


Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and vain deceit, according to the tradition of men, and not according to Christ. For in Jesus Christ dwells all the fullness of God.=========JESUS IS GOD!!===Matt. 4:7; Luke 4:12 - Jesus tells satan, "you shall not tempt the Lord your God" in reference to Himself.

Matt. 5:21-22; 27-28; 31-32; 33-34; 38-39; 43-44 - Jesus makes Himself equal to God when He declares, "You heard it said...but I say to you.."

Matt. 7:21-22; Luke 6:46 - not everyone who says to Jesus, "Lord, Lord." Jesus calls Himself Lord, which is God.

Matt. 9:2; Mark 2:5; Luke 5:20; 7:48 - Jesus forgives sins. Only God can forgive sins.

Matt. 12:8; Mark 2:28; Luke 6:5 - Jesus says that He is "Lord of the Sabbath." He is the Lord of God's law which means He is God.

Matt. 18:20 - Jesus says where two or three are gathered in His name, there He is in the midst of them.

Matt. 21:3; Luke 19:31,34 - Jesus calls himself "Lord." "The Lord has need of them."

Matt. 26:64; Mark 14:62; Luke 22:70 - Jesus acknowledges that He is the Son of God.

Matt. 28:20 - Jesus said He is with us always, even unto the end of the world. Only God is omnipresent.

Luke 8:39 - Luke reports that Jesus said "tell how much God has done for you." And the man declared how much Jesus did.

Luke 17:18 - Jesus asks why the other nine lepers did not come back to give praise to Him, God, except the Samaritan leper.

Luke 19:38,40 - Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord. If these were silent, the very stones would cry out.

John 5:18 - Jesus claimed to be God. The Jews knew this because Jesus called God His Father and made Himself equal to God. This is why Jesus was crucified.

John 5:21-22 - Jesus gives life and says that all judgment has been given to Him by the Father.

John 5:23 - Jesus equates Himself with the Father, "whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him."

John 6:38 - Jesus says, "For I have come down from heaven."

John 8:12 - Jesus says "I am the light of the world." - 1 John 1:5 - God is light and in him there is no darkness at all.

John 8:19 - Jesus says, "if you knew me, you would know my Father also."

John 8:23 - Jesus says that He is not of this world. Only God is not of this world.

John 8:58 - Jesus says, "Before Abraham was, I AM." Exodus 3:14 - "I AM" means "YHWH," which means God.

John 10:18 - Jesus says He has the power to lay down His life and take it up again - Gal. 1:1 - God raised Jesus to life.

John 10:30 - Jesus says, "I and the Father are one." They are equal. The Jews even claimed Jesus made Himself equal to God. Jesus' statement in John 14:28, "the Father is greater than I," cannot contradict John 10:30 (the Word of God is never in conflict). Jesus' statement in John 14:28 simply refers to His human messianic role as servant and slave, which He, and not the Father or the Holy Spirit, undertook in the flesh.

John 10:36 - again, Jesus claims that He is "the Son of God."

John 10:38; 14:10 - "the Father is in me and I am in the Father" means the Father and Son are equal.

John 12:45 - Jesus says, "He who sees Me sees Him who sent Me." God the Father is equal to God the Son.

John 13:13 - Jesus says, "You call me Teacher and Lord and you are right for so I AM."

John 14:6 - Jesus says "I am the way, and the truth and the life." Only God is the way, the truth and the life.

John 16:15 - Jesus says, "all things that the Father has are Mine." Jesus has everything God has which makes Him God.

John 16:28 - Jesus says that "He came from the Father and has come into the world."

John 17:5,24 - Jesus' desire is for us to behold His glory which He had before the foundation of the world.

John 20:17 - Jesus distinguishes His relationship to the Father from our relationship by saying "My Father and your Father."

Rev. 1:8 - God says He is the "Alpha and the Omega." In Rev. 22:13, Jesus also says He is the "Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last, the beginning and the end." The only possible conclusion one can reach is that Jesus is equal to the Lord God.

Rev. 1:17 - Jesus says again, "I am the First and the Last." This is in reference to the God prophesied by Isaiah in Isaiah 44:6, 41:4, 48:12.

Rev. 1:18 - Jesus, the First and the Last, also says "I died, and behold, I am alive for evermore." When did God ever die? He only did in the humanity of Jesus Christ our Lord and God.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


I can just imagine Jesus, post-tomb and after hanging around for a while, sometimes in disguise - as he rides out of town (never to return) in a one-horse carriage, his bride (to be) at his side, a chest of temple gold in the back (as reparation, from a group of certain rich men like Joseph of Arimathea and Pharisees like Nicodemus) with BELLS ringing out and laughing all the way "Ho ho ho" whereby when the last are first the first, last, the best is always held in reserve, for last. Let us remember however that it was always about "we" and about "us" so this is a shared triumph in the resurrected life, a whole life (like a full moon) not a half-life of sorrow and suffering, but the other half as well.

Just imagine... the courage to also be happy and to realize heaven on earth for all the right reasons, this is the great commission of Jesus Christ, part two, which doesn't terminate at the cross, or for that matter in getting "beamed straight up".

reply to post by Lucius Driftwood


You do realize that he was talking to Jews in that instance right? He agreed that they were descendants and children of Abraham. Abraham's god was Yahweh, so him calling their father the devil was him calling Yahweh the devil.

The god of the OT is not the God or Father of Jesus. We all share the same Father in an esoteric way, but some adopt others as a father from false teachings. We are all children of God, but some, knowingly or unknowingly, oppose him and adopt false gods as their father.

Originally posted by Americanist
reply to post by akushla99

 

Make no mistake about it – enlightenment is a destructive process. It has nothing to do with becoming better or being happier Enlightenment is the crumbling away of untruth. It’s seeing through the facade of pretense. It’s the complete eradication of everything we imagined to be true.

I love this...and your sig is exactly what my sig is about (and vice versa)...

...destructive process, in as much as (because the structure of the word, is made of 4 pieces that speak of addition) it is the destruction of the matrix of dark (in the simplicity sense)...this is what we see when discussions of this subject occur...the propensity to complicate (when the simplest explanation will do), paperfold (because once you are caught in your own origami monster - its waaay hard to admit you are wrong [but there are ways to do this])...

Pretense, if recognised as pretense, is a useful tool amongst many...
'Truth' is not always borne out of your own imagination (you may want think about the implications of this statement)...and this is absolutely true...

If he is the 'deception'...an intricate M.O. was built around him, that he learned of gradually...and accepted (as a deception)...General Public may be fooled by Copperfield and Angel (passing deception as magic as truth)...naivety has its place, sometimes you just want to be entertained...the problem arises when GP take entertainment as truth, and turn it into a 'given'...

Consider the dynamics of the situation described above...this does not happen on an 'individual' scale, it happens on a 'mass' scale (almost the same way as GP gets to see Copperfield and Angel)...which loops back to a short (berated) comment I made earlier in the thread...namely that marketing makes many things so...(but!...not because the product is not worth it)...

I answer the OP in the negative (but it would need explaining, more space than is available for discussion)...

Å99

You do realize that he was talking to Jews in that instance right? He agreed that they were descendants and children of Abraham. Abraham's god was Yahweh, so him calling their father the devil was him calling Yahweh the devil. The god of the OT is not the God or Father of Jesus. We all share the same Father in an esoteric way, but some adopt others as a father from false teachings. We are all children of God, but some, knowingly or unknowingly, oppose him and adopt false gods as their fathe

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Jesus was talking to the religious Jews of the time, Pharisees, Saducees, Scribes and experts in the law. People who should've recognized Him, but DIDN'T. Those who had trust in their own self righteousness, their historic genealogy, their religion. The GOD of the OT invited a group of people in the wilderness at Mount Sinai to enter a 'covenant relationship' with Him. Not a religion.
It's not about being descendants of Abraham. Jesus said GOD could create children of Abraham out of the ground/earth/stones if He so wished. Abraham 'believed GOD' and it was counted to Him as righteousness. Abraham trusted in GOD, not his position or wealth or standing, etc.GOD made a promise to Abraham, and Abraham BELIEVED Him. This is before the Sinai covenant came to be. GOD called Abraham out from a world of idol worshippers and chose to COVENANT with him.
No man can serve two masters.
I believe we are all children of Adam, but no, we are not all children of GOD. Jesus was very clear on that.
The only harsh words of rebuke Jesus truly had were for the religious people.
Jesus never equated His Father with the devil.
If the GOD of the OT is not the GOD or Father of Jesus, who is He GOD and Father of?
Jesus always called Him 'Father':
'I do only what I see the Father doing'.
Just because you want all roads to lead to the same mountain, doesn't make it so.

reply to post by Lucius Driftwood

If the GOD of the OT is not the GOD or Father of Jesus, who is He GOD and Father of?

That would be the god/Father of this world...

And considering the horrifying stuff one can read about in the OT... We can safely assume this god is a false God... and likely a fallen angel.

Perhaps THE fallen angel... The god of the dead...

As Jesus spoke of...