Jesus Died On the Cross For Our Sins.. WHERE is the logic?

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
The Bible also says that the message of the cross is "foolishness" to most people.

it is to me,jesus died for our sins?we,ve been doing it ever since so where is he now?

Originally posted by signalfire
There is NO logic. It's insanity codified into dogma. Since both the god and the son supposedly knew what Act III was going to be all along, and babies are considered to be sinners-in-waiting, the whole thing is dismally evil. What kind of god produces a child only to have that child murdered as some kind of blood sacrifice for the ages?

How about we stop lying to children and ourselves and start trying to fathom the universe by telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? That includes the government to the people.

The whole truth isn't known, nor could it probably even be comprehended by anyone. Since the dawn of man, people have been trying to put together the "truth", every civilization has had their own version of "truth" whether it be an elephant woman deity, a cow, or christianity/judaism/islam.. People are so desperate for meaning, for the 'truth', for the answers that they allude themselves unknowingly/subconsciously into delusions so that they feel as if they HAVE some known meaning, HAVE the truth, HAVE the answers.

It seems as if people have pretty much always in some way been immune to anything else, the thought of the unknown scares the hell out of people (which ironically they don't even think about, of course, since their delusions act as the answers to all there is to know).. Whether it be atheism or orthodox catholic, it matters little in this way, since they are all used to fill the void of that which they don't know, to fill the void of meaning and knowledge.. It is not in human nature to just say "I don't know" about such things.

reply to post by TheIceQueen


I don't agree with that whatsoever. God wanted a creature that would freely choose to love and obey Him out of it's free will. The secondary consequence of that is the fact that some creatures would reject that and rebel from Him. God didn't want robots. I would do the same if I were God, create a being the had the choice to love or rebel.

You cannot force or program love.

GOD the Father in Heaven feels no pain and suffering.

GOD had to place His spirit in Jesus, the only way to know and understand pain and suffering is through Jesus.

Christians pray in the name of Jesus to GOD the Father in Heaven, Jesus is the only one that can relay or pain and suffering to GOD the Father in Heaven, because Jesus went through our pain and suffering on the cross.

Praying in the name of Jesus, is the only way GOD knows how we feel, Jesus is the only one in Heaven that can provide our feelings to GOD the Father in Heaven.

GOD I hope I explained that well enough.

Thanks for the interesting thread

Have a Great night

Originally posted by sparky31

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
The Bible also says that the message of the cross is "foolishness" to most people.

it is to me,jesus died for our sins?we,ve been doing it ever since so where is he now?

Not sure what you're asking, I'm sorry.

Originally posted by DooDer
GOD the Father in Heaven feels no pain and suffering.

GOD had to place His spirit in Jesus, the only way to know and understand pain and suffering is through Jesus.

Christians pray in the name of Jesus to GOD the Father in Heaven, Jesus is the only one that can relay or pain and suffering to GOD the Father in Heaven, because Jesus went through our pain and suffering on the cross.

Praying in the name of Jesus, is the only way GOD knows how we feel, Jesus is the only one in Heaven that can provide our feelings to GOD the Father in Heaven.

GOD I hope I explained that well enough.

Thanks for the interesting thread

Have a Great night

so getting nailed to a cross he understands everyones pain and suffering?

you couldn,t make it up..........oh wait yeah you can.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by sparky31

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
The Bible also says that the message of the cross is "foolishness" to most people.

it is to me,jesus died for our sins?we,ve been doing it ever since so where is he now?

Not sure what you're asking, I'm sorry.

well he died for our sins........it happened before.during and after he died so it didn,t work so i,m asking where is he now?if thats the theory then he died for nothing so whys god not bothered for thousands of years to try something else? is it because it may just not be true?i don,t know but lets fling that out there and see what people think.

reply to post by sparky31


He died for the penalty. Nowhere in the Bible does it say sin will vanish from human existence until the resurrection. We are still not perfect creatures.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by sparky31

 

He died for the penalty. Nowhere in the Bible does it say sin will vanish from human existence until the resurrection. We are still not perfect creatures.

edit on 29-6-2013 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

i,ll take your word for that cause i don,t read fiction.

reply to post by sparky31


Okay,.. random.

So why even hang out in this forum? You're actions don't align with your statements. Are you then just here to troll?

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by sparky31

 

Okay,.. random.

So why even hang out in this forum? You're actions don't align with your statements. Are you then just here to troll?

edit on 29-6-2013 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

how am i trolling?your quoting me something from a book i have never read cause to me its fiction so i,m saying i,ll take your word on it

if you think i,m trolling then thats your opinion.

reply to post by DooDer

GOD the Father in Heaven feels no pain and suffering. GOD had to place His spirit in Jesus, the only way to know and understand pain and suffering is through Jesus.

Let me get this straight. God didn't understand pain and suffering when he killed all of the first born sons in Egypt, or when he rained fire and brimstone down on Sodom and Gomorrah, or when he led the Hebrews into battle and ordered them to kill everyone except for the virgins, that he wanted the Hebrews to keep as plunder?

So he sent his son, to be killed and tortured to death, so that he could understand pain?

Mkay

Hello IceQueen - hoping this might help, This may raise more questions than answer but I will try.
God created the earth in 6 days. A day to the Lord is as a thousand years. God created man for companionship. We are made differently than the angels. God created us in His likeness - and I think He's talking more of a spiritual likeness than human but then again God's ways are not our ways and so many have different theories. Unfortunately the Devil is trying to take us down, destroy us and distance us from God. He hates God as God kicked him out of Heaven for wanting to be like God. If God is all loving and all knowing and is the ultimate God being and is of pure love then He can't allow evil to try to take over. It's against His nature. I'm not trying to ramble but trying to start from the beginning and put the pieces in order for the entire story to make sense. The devil wants to hurt God and to destroy His creation (us). When Eve and Adam ate of the apple they gained knowledge and sin was introduced to humanity. (I don't know why if God is all knowing He created us knowing our history and future - sometimes we just have to have faith and trust in Him.) Because of our new sin nature, ie: we used to be spiritual beings that would never die, we are now of "flesh" and prone to die due to our sinful nature. The devil is constantly trying to destroy our lives, terrorize us, hurt us, come between us and God. Man kept trying to atone for his mistakes by sacrificing a lamb but it wasn't enough. Man is weak and due to his sin nature it's just something we can't control. Even when Moses went up the mountain and came down with the tablets man couldn't hang onto his faith and honor God for how present He was in their lives (manna coming down from Heaven every morning, the pillar of fire that led them, the miracles that Moses demonstrated, the plagues that God gave to Egypt until the Pharoh (sp?) agreed to let them go. Moses came down from the mountain carrying the tablets and discovered the people had created a great golden calf idol and were worshiping that instead of God. No matter how much God was active in people's lives and how much he proved and showed himself people kept failing. He needed a way to show His love for mankind and to elminate the sins of mankind so that they could return to him - evil cannot be present with God. Sin is evil to God. We are part of God - our spirits. God breathed life into the soul of Adam and Eve. Does He still breath life into us at conception? I don't know and again people can't decide on when. So He sent Jesus in the form of a human infant without any Godly knowledge or power to come to earth to live as us, to feel the same emotions, live a human life, be prone to temptation. There is no perfect human but Jesus was perfect. Jesus had to resist temptation and He was able to perform miracles by His faith in God. People argue that Jesus was God in human form which was He was perfect but that's not the case - He was as human in nature as all of us but he relied on God so much and placed all His faith in God that He was able to be the perfect human. When Jesus was baptized God sent the Holy Spirit in the form of a dove to Jesus. Now Jesus was really performing as the son of God, literally. God sent Jesus so that Jesus would die for us. Every single past, present and future sin was put onto Jesus and God judged Jesus on the cross instead of us. Because Jesus was found perfect He was the ultimate sacrifice and so the moment you accept Jesus as your Savior you no longer appear to God with sin - He sees the perfect nature of Jesus covering us. I guess in simple terms you could compare it to a sin eliminating cloak covering that entire person inside and out. And now we are able to be with God and when we die we can go "home". Why is this so important? Not only because of our sinful ways, ie: prone to temptation, wanting to do things that please us in the moment although we know it's not good for us and we realize and feel bad later, and reap the consequences of our bad choices but because the devil is always after us. The devil wants to torture and terrify us and ruin our lives by having us give into wrong decisions. And he laughs at God when we do. When Jesus yelled on the cross, "Father why have you forsaken me," it's because God had to withdraw to judge Jesus without any spiritual connection or favoritism. God found Jesus to be perfect and accepted Jesus as the ultimate sacrifice. Once we accept Jesus as our Savior we are always under God's protection and Jesus resides in us, the Holy Spirit resides in us and helps us, is our comforter and helps us resist sin. But sin will still happen as long as we are human. But Jesus is coming back and the devil knows his days are numbered. The devil has little time and will do everything he can to destroy us and any souls he can before his day comes. I hope this helps.

Originally posted by DooDer
GOD the Father in Heaven feels no pain and suffering.

GOD had to place His spirit in Jesus, the only way to know and understand pain and suffering is through Jesus.

Christians pray in the name of Jesus to GOD the Father in Heaven, Jesus is the only one that can relay or pain and suffering to GOD the Father in Heaven, because Jesus went through our pain and suffering on the cross.

Praying in the name of Jesus, is the only way GOD knows how we feel, Jesus is the only one in Heaven that can provide our feelings to GOD the Father in Heaven.

GOD I hope I explained that well enough.

Thanks for the interesting thread

Have a Great night

AH okay, I guess that I just had too high of expectations regarding what the creator of an infinite universe, life, and everything that we know- and much more, in just 7 days could do.. I guess that I was out of line to think that the super being whom is creator of all, had the powers of parting the red sea through a stick, cause the sun to go backwards (in order to assist joshua in war), resurrecting the dead on various occasions, cause fire to rain on people who were praying too much, causing a wale to temporarily rent out it's stomach as a hotel for jonah, making a donkey speak, feeding 10,000 people on the spot with one piece of bread, and so on...

WHAT was I thinking to wrongly assume that such a powerful existence could merely FORGIVE THE SINS OF HIS CREATION SIN BEING WHAT HE CREATED THEM WITH in a way that would involve methods other than creating a son and then sending him into a virgin's wound on earth to knowingly be killed so that he could "feel the pain and way that humans feel"..? It would be crazy to think that he knew exactly how humans "felt" already.. Isn't saying that god couldn't do such a simple, simple thing some sort of blasphemy or something?

reply to post by ElOmen


Jesus had to be a man because it was a male dominated society. Males were the head of the household, all family names carried on down through history so that you would know the lineage.
As for religious icons, that's all they are. No disrespect towards Catholics but ever since Catholicism entered the scene and the inquisition the ancient people applied attibutes to holy relics and believed they held power. Man just can't seem to help himself when it comes to having to have something to hold and to touch to portray their belief and to focus on. I imagine by having Jesus portrayed as suffering on the cross it helps certain religious groups to focus on the suffering He went through which they think helps man focus on Jesus' sacrifice and think it helps people avoid further sin. All you have to do is accept Jesus as your Savior and you don't need to hang onto a material object, the very name of Jesus has power in it and the devil trembles at the sound. If you put a bunch of people in a room filled with nothing but rocks you can be sure that one will find a rock that feels different, looks prettier and they will soon obsess about that rock and start feeling it has power or that God has bestowed His favor on that rock and before you know it that person is treating that rock like a shrine. Then others get involved. It's how the devil takes our focus off of Jesus. It's just a rock as is a cross symbol or any other object people idolize. And the devil is a counterfeit, he is always twisting religion and the words of the Bible so that people get confused and led astray. I do not need to go to church to be a Christian. I have Jesus in my heart and I answer only to Him and so anyone who says I am not a good Christian or a weak Christian for not attending church is wrong. However the devil uses this amongst believers to weaken us and make us feel like we are bad and wrong and this weakens us further and before you know it we're a mess. The devil knows the Bible inside and out and is always copying God's ways to suit his own. The devil will use any way he can to bring us down or to make us forget we are forgiven. And yes we will still sin but if we repent (simply means to change our ways) then we can stay close to Jesus and have that loving and trustful relationship with Him. We don't want to sin for it hurts Jesus but we will still sin. We just have to shake ourselves off, remember that Jesus already did all He had to do in that one moment and no sin will ever distance us from the love of Jesus. He sees the sin, but he loves the sinner more than we will ever know. Hope that helped.

Originally posted by sparky31

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by sparky31

 

Okay,.. random.

So why even hang out in this forum? You're actions don't align with your statements. Are you then just here to troll?

edit on 29-6-2013 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

how am i trolling?your quoting me something from a book i have never read cause to me its fiction so i,m saying i,ll take your word on it

if you think i,m trolling then thats your opinion.

I didn't accuse, I only asked. I don't understand the desire to participate in forums I have no vested interest in. There are only three forums on the site I post in. So I just don't understand that's all.

Originally posted by ccseagull
reply to post by ElOmen

 

Jesus had to be a man because it was a male dominated society. Males were the head of the household, all family names carried on down through history so that you would know the lineage.
As for religious icons, that's all they are. No disrespect towards Catholics but ever since Catholicism entered the scene and the inquisition the ancient people applied attibutes to holy relics and believed they held power. Man just can't seem to help himself when it comes to having to have something to hold and to touch to portray their belief and to focus on. I imagine by having Jesus portrayed as suffering on the cross it helps certain religious groups to focus on the suffering He went through which they think helps man focus on Jesus' sacrifice and think it helps people avoid further sin. All you have to do is accept Jesus as your Savior and you don't need to hang onto a material object, the very name of Jesus has power in it and the devil trembles at the sound. If you put a bunch of people in a room filled with nothing but rocks you can be sure that one will find a rock that feels different, looks prettier and they will soon obsess about that rock and start feeling it has power or that God has bestowed His favor on that rock and before you know it that person is treating that rock like a shrine. Then others get involved. It's how the devil takes our focus off of Jesus. It's just a rock as is a cross symbol or any other object people idolize. And the devil is a counterfeit, he is always twisting religion and the words of the Bible so that people get confused and led astray. I do not need to go to church to be a Christian. I have Jesus in my heart and I answer only to Him and so anyone who says I am not a good Christian or a weak Christian for not attending church is wrong. However the devil uses this amongst believers to weaken us and make us feel like we are bad and wrong and this weakens us further and before you know it we're a mess. The devil knows the Bible inside and out and is always copying God's ways to suit his own. The devil will use any way he can to bring us down or to make us forget we are forgiven. And yes we will still sin but if we repent (simply means to change our ways) then we can stay close to Jesus and have that loving and trustful relationship with Him. We don't want to sin for it hurts Jesus but we will still sin. We just have to shake ourselves off, remember that Jesus already did all He had to do in that one moment and no sin will ever distance us from the love of Jesus. He sees the sin, but he loves the sinner more than we will ever know. Hope that helped.

so jesus died for our sins and sees them and loves the sinner more than we,ll ever know?

couldn,t god just have done that without sending his son down to get murdered for our sins?mean hes all ready created everything hes suppose to have created so its not like hes busy.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by sparky31

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by sparky31

 

Okay,.. random.

So why even hang out in this forum? You're actions don't align with your statements. Are you then just here to troll?

edit on 29-6-2013 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

how am i trolling?your quoting me something from a book i have never read cause to me its fiction so i,m saying i,ll take your word on it

if you think i,m trolling then thats your opinion.

I didn't accuse, I only asked. I don't understand the desire to participate in forums I have no vested interest in. There are only three forums on the site I post in. So I just don't understand that's all.

i am interested tho

i,m interested how people can believe in something that there is no conclusive evidence too but anyone else believes something else then they are shot down in flames.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by TheIceQueen

 

I don't have to find it completely logical and sensible. The logical and sensible thing would have been for a Holy and righteous God to end human existence at the first sin. So I'm thankful He does things that don't make the logical sense on paper.

edit on 29-6-2013 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

At least you admit you don't believe in logic.

I kid, I kid... but seriously, how do you put faith into something that you don't understand? Isn't that the same thing as blind faith?

reply to post by sparky31


I don't agree with your first statement, not at all.